I'm 33. I'm not officially out, but faded. I think being elder from 24-30 kept me in - thinking I could make a real difference, maybe even changes in the ORg. No such luck. {sigh}
allelsefails
JoinedPosts by allelsefails
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7
Question
by is there help out there inthe other day a young jw girl about 17 or 18 knocked on my door with liture for there convention.
she was a real doll.
she was wearing sandles with painted toe nails and great looking green eyes.
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What would Christianity look like without Paul's writings?
by AK - Jeff ina thowoff from ren's thread obviously.. i am firmly convinced that what is called christianity today - is actually just pauline theology.. if you removed all the portions of the nt that are attributed to paul, and actually accepted as primary the words of jesus and his direct followers - the worldwide movement would look far different doctrinally.
and as far as the fundy's go - they would be lost without the deep judgmentalism and rules oriented thinking of this writer [whomever he really was].. if ren's thread could go 15 pages and counting - why not this one?.
thoughts?.
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allelsefails
True "Christianity" is described by Jesus "Love your God" "Love your neighbor". How are Jesus' disciples recognized today? Jesus answers again "Those that have love amongst themselves" - no doctrinal qualifications, no preaching qualifications, no organizational requirement. I have always loved the point that Jehovah has never had an organization that represented him. Israel was a nation whose Law was from God, but whose kings were a bunch of bastards. God told them "You don't want a king, I'm your KING" the Israelite kingship was allowed by God, but never "represented him". Never had any say over spiritual things. ... Also Job as no "member of God's organization" , but a faithful man in God's memory. The Jews NEVER believed that you had to become an Israelite or follow the Law to please God. (unless you're an Israelite of course). ......... Paul was the beginning of this seizing of power that allowed men like Clement of Rome down to the Popes of modern times to make their claims. Jesus said NONE of you are teacher, Father, leader. NONE are above any others.
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Question for JW Lurkers: Did Jesus Pray Using the Name "Jehovah"?
by cabasilas ina listing of prayers by jesus in the new testament can be found at this site:.
http://www.praylikethis.org.uk/theprayersofjesus.html.
(i can't say that the list is exhaustive, but i think it is at least representative.).
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allelsefails
Funny I've thought about that. Name can mean many things yeah? .......... I think it is funny to call Jehovah a translation mistake. The English language is a translation mistake between the Celts, Saxons, and God knows who else throwing in native languages, German, Latin, French, Spainish, hell anything they can find. Put it in a blender and you get = English. Jesus was never called Jesus either. Yeshua - Hebrew, Iesous - Greek , Iesus in Latin. The letter J did not exist before the 14th century. Translations are translations - meaningless use of words.
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What would Christianity look like without Paul's writings?
by AK - Jeff ina thowoff from ren's thread obviously.. i am firmly convinced that what is called christianity today - is actually just pauline theology.. if you removed all the portions of the nt that are attributed to paul, and actually accepted as primary the words of jesus and his direct followers - the worldwide movement would look far different doctrinally.
and as far as the fundy's go - they would be lost without the deep judgmentalism and rules oriented thinking of this writer [whomever he really was].. if ren's thread could go 15 pages and counting - why not this one?.
thoughts?.
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allelsefails
donut hole wrote: - "@allelsefails ..... I see that quite a bit where it is suggested that Paul didn't think his writings were inspired. He may not come right out and say, "my writings are inspired", but is there any doubt that he felt that he speaking the Word of God? He really believed the message he preached wasn't received from any man but from God. In fact, in his letters he is careful to note when his expressions are his own and not from Heaven." ...... You are right he wrote "the word of God" exactly the same way the WTS/FDS do today. They don't claim inspiration, but expect to be treated as inspired. I have no doubt this is how Paul viewed himself. He often boasted of how he did NOT learn Christianity from the Apostles in Jerusalem. He had a personal experience taking him into the "third heaven". So Jesus spent 3 1/2 years traveling with these 12 men, he taught them how to preach, all the things God wanted them to know, and a few years later decided they weren't good enough so he picked this Saul of Tarsus to be the primary conduit of his will and purpose for the body of Christ? Silly silly silly - JWs don't have market on nonsense based on NO historical evidence. ..... Somewhere someone will mention how Acts and Galations have 2 COMPLETELY different stories of Paul/Saul. Either Luke is a liar or Paul is. ....... Also Paul specifically says it is OK to eat food acrificed to Idols. The only reason to avoid it is so you don't offend someone else. Not because of the Jerusalem Council with definitively stated things sacrificed to Idols were off limits. He was brought back to Jerusalem and forced to take part in A JEWISH ceremony so that people would see he wasn't against the Law. ........... James was known for going to the temple for prayer every day! (as a Christian) Many Jews believed their destruction in 70 was punishment for killing James. (Josephus) Paul is the only one who says anything negative about the Law. James says that "a man is to be declared righteous by works not faith alone" Where as Paul makes the opposite point. It is obvious that they are both in the final canon of the church as a political compromise not on objevtive evidence of inspiration or genuineness. Without Paul Christianity would be a Jewish/Christianity mix. Jesus clearly suggested that he expected his Christian followers to observe the Sabbath (Matt. 24:20). He and his followers respected EVERYTHING about Judaism execpt the corrupted legalistic leadership. Great post and discussion.
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Did the elders in your congregation give counsel to those that were DATING? Good or bad counsel?
by BonaFide ini have heard some doozies.
some elders forbid the couple from sitting together at the meetings unless they are engaged.
i have heard that said from the platform.
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allelsefails
I remember my wife and I rode together to a "get together" at a sister's house while we were dating and people kept asking "Did you come together?" and seemed shocked that we were in a car together. I know the WTS published that it is a bad idea to sit in a parked car with your date - I'll attest that things can definitly happen there :-) But to drive together? Stupid. The Elders assigned my wife's friend (her next door neighbor) to keep an eye on us and would ask what time I left the house, how long I stayed, etc.. If anyone talked to me about it I would tell them "Thank you for your concern, but it is none of your business." I never did care what judgemental people thought about my life. Screw them and the horse they rode in on was my attitude. Even as they still made me a servant and elder, but all I did was make trouble. Like shouldn't we warn people about that pedophile? and That elder hitting on my wife should be removed. They asked me to step down after 6 years because I thought the bible was our instruction book, but they like GB/CO letters more - silly me.......
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Guilt trip
by vikesgirl101 ini got to thinking about something that happened a year ago.
i was drifting away from the org, when my sister-in-law told me i was being selfish.
she said she was at aloss for words as to what to tell her 11 year old daughter about me.
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allelsefails
Often told by my Mom and sister that I don't want to disappoint my brother - died when he was 20 and I was 13. "What if I'm not here for him?" Just reinforces me that the "truth" is nonsense when that is the only motivation or defense.
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What would Christianity look like without Paul's writings?
by AK - Jeff ina thowoff from ren's thread obviously.. i am firmly convinced that what is called christianity today - is actually just pauline theology.. if you removed all the portions of the nt that are attributed to paul, and actually accepted as primary the words of jesus and his direct followers - the worldwide movement would look far different doctrinally.
and as far as the fundy's go - they would be lost without the deep judgmentalism and rules oriented thinking of this writer [whomever he really was].. if ren's thread could go 15 pages and counting - why not this one?.
thoughts?.
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allelsefails
The history channell has an interesting quote running that I have always agreed with - "If Paul knew what would be done with his letters he would have been much more careful." Paul makes NO CLAIM to being inspired in his writings. In fact the only NT writing that claims inspiration is Revelation. Further only a few parts of the Bible claim inspiration - Moses with the Law and instructions for release of Jews from Egypt, Various prophets, Revelation. That's it. Anything more than that is added after the fact - "I think that was inspired". If we just take the writers at their word the bible becomes a good starting point for our relationship with God. Paul, Peter, James, Jude, Letters of John give us insight into early Christian thinking. Matt. Mark Luke Give an interesting account of what people remembered of Jesus' teachings. John is nutty and written very late, but reflects one accepted version in the early church of Christology. NONE claim inspiration and someone 100 - 200 years later saying it was inspired is silly. I hope nothing I have written is determined to be Inspired 100 years after I die (which was done to Paul).
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Bible Canon
by allelsefails inhas anyone done any personal research on how the bible canon was selected?
i am putting together an article on this and would like whatever insight anyone would care to give.
preferably historical references that are verifiable.
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allelsefails
Reniaa - you missed the point. This is not about the "apocrypha". If anything this is about too many books in the canon not too few. Christianity would be a better religion if Jesus words as quoted in the Synoptic Gospels were followed. The history of the Greek Scriptures is this - the very first list ever that has the 27 books we use today was written in 367AD! not 100, not 200, not 300. 334 years after Jesus died. These books were selected by people you believe are "apostates". People who in 325AD decided Jesus was God. Why do you trust them to pick your bible books for you?
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70 years = 607?
by allelsefails in70 years of captivity?.
i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.
that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.
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allelsefails
I am free! I can post again. Now 100 at a time no more 10/24hr rule. Yeh me. I would love it if Scholar would answer my questions directly with any sense. Having given up on this it is safe to say: ..... 1) There is no scriptural connection between "70 years" and the "Gentile times" or Nebs 7 years of insanity. (unless you say "obviously there is" then of course that can't be argued with) .... 2) The arguements against this are nonense and Scholar has proven to me better than anyone else ever has that the WTS has no facts to back it up, just "trust us we're the FDS". No one agrees with us, but thats OK because we rely on Real research only when it benefits our position and ignore it the rest of the time.
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Bible Canon
by allelsefails inhas anyone done any personal research on how the bible canon was selected?
i am putting together an article on this and would like whatever insight anyone would care to give.
preferably historical references that are verifiable.
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allelsefails
Wild fact - the very first list that has the 27 books used today as NT Scripture was in 367 AD! (And that did not have the same list of OT books) That is the most stunning fact I found Catholic Churches had already decided Jesus=GOD before they ever decided what the Chiristian bible was. Good stuff.