Those poor Bethelites...
Introspection
JoinedPosts by Introspection
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WTBTS CLINICAL LABORATORY OF BROOKLYN
by Kent inwatch tower bible & tract society clinical laboratory of brooklyn.
the watchtower is running a lot of strange businesses, and this one is just an example.
they are listed as a medical laboratory by new york state department of health - health care reform act (hcra).
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Looking for definitive answers . . .HELP
by patio34 inone comment i hear from my jw son a lot is that "the organization (capital o!
) is made up of imperfect men, so they make mistakes.
" what are some answers to that?
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Introspection
Just what I had in mind Jan.
I thought there was another scripture that has a wording to the effect of "using undeserved kindness as an excuse for loose conduct", unfortunately I misplaced my WTLIB CD. But this is close:
"For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, but [there is] a certain fearful expectation of judgement and [there is] a fiery jealousy that is going to consume those in opposition. Any man that has disregarded the law of Moses dies without compassion, upon the testimony of two or three. Of how much more severe punishment, do you think, will the man be counted worthy who has trampled upon the Son of God and who has esteemed as of ordinary value the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and who has outraged the spirit of undeserved kindness with contempt?" -Heb 10:26-29
Of course, the potential problem with using this verse is the willfulness aspect, it's always hard to prove intent. I bet there are those out there with good evidence to that effect though.. Anyways, here's another piece of goody: You know the scripture about first extracting the rafter from your own eye then the straw from your brothers eye right? Tie that in with child molestation and something like wearing a beard. (that one is at Matt. 7:1-5)
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Looking for definitive answers . . .HELP
by patio34 inone comment i hear from my jw son a lot is that "the organization (capital o!
) is made up of imperfect men, so they make mistakes.
" what are some answers to that?
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Introspection
Ask him how he reconciles that with where the gospel says you'll know them by their fruitage, and of course there's plenty of that. (evidently Jesus didn't buy into the "they're imperfect" excuse - when has he said anything remotely like that?) Actually, I bet you can find a lot of things that apply just flipping through those four books.
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Behavioral Insight
by MikeNightHaShev indespite all the different theories of the purpose for this world and its order, mankind still suffers, and still doesn't understand why nature acts up on us this way.
aren't we the very reason for nature's cruelty to the living world?
when will we finally wake up and realize that we are all part of a whole, and everything we do causes a reaction and affects everything else, including our own emotions, causing us to make bad choices and experience cruel consequences.. take the nature of hate and aggression for instance.
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Introspection
"In fact, at this point in history, the most radical, pervasive, and earth-shaking transformation would occur simply if everybody truly evolved to a mature, rational, and responsible ego, capable of freely participating in the open exchange of mutual self-esteem. There is the 'edge of history.' There would be a real New Age."
- Ken Wilber, Up From Eden
Just read this quote last night. Mind you, this guy is a transpersonal theorist and he believes in further development, though as I indicated in the subject line..
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Do you have to be part of organized religion?
by trumind inok. this is my first thread and i am very interested to see the kinds of responses i get.
my question to you all is do you beleive you have to be a member of some type of organized religion in order to have god's approval?
i was raised in jw household, never baptized.
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Introspection
I also wanted to chime in on Silver's point. I think when it comes to any religious organization, the logical thing is that the spiritual strength of the organization comes from the relationship each individual has with God or the divine, not from the organization itself. Maybe after being a witness for some time this isn't as obvious, but just take baptism for example. Isn't it supposed to be a personal dedication to God? Even the witnesses agree that the individuals in the organization comes to a certain point in their relationship with God and then they're good enough to join, so what's first and foremost there? After all, if people disregard their relationship with God, isn't it just an organization of men? The fact is, if you don't have an organization and have a relationship with God, that would be pretty good. If you have the organization but not a relationship with God, that means nothing. I've been out of the loop for a while, but last time I checked the organization was stressing loyalty to itself more than one's relationship with God, that should tell you something.
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Do you have to be part of organized religion?
by trumind inok. this is my first thread and i am very interested to see the kinds of responses i get.
my question to you all is do you beleive you have to be a member of some type of organized religion in order to have god's approval?
i was raised in jw household, never baptized.
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Introspection
Hi Tru. Your post reminds me of a line in one of the Star Trek movies where captain Kirk asks this alien who poses as God: "What does God need with a starship?" I think the same thing can be said about organized religion. I think it's pretty simple. You may be part of a community that is supportive, but just the word "organization" will tell you it's not as personal. But of course your question was whether people needed an organization. Of course it doesn't make much sense to say God doesn't need an organization (which should be pretty obvious) but you need an organization to reach God. What possible reason would there be? Does God want you to fill out a detailed form and have you sign in three places, have it notarized etc?? Even more specifically, if we're talking about having God's love then can't God just read the heart? Why do you need any of the other stuff? It might be nice to be part of a small community of genuinely loving people, but certainly not having membership in some organization. After all, having that membership is no guarantee that you'd survive armageddon even according to the witnesses, so what's more important?
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Considering Leaving? Consider Larc's comments..
by DannyBear inmaybe this is the time, to stand up and be counted.
larc says it so well in this e-mail to me:.
****thank you for your kind words and your recognition of me via e mail, on.
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Introspection
I still think the main problem is the intended use of this board and expected guidelines for conduct. It seems to me that Simon has left that up in the air, (aside from being JW related of course, there's nothing else stated really) just open like a lot of other boards online. When you have some kind of statement to start with you can point to it and say hey, that's not what we do here. But we don't. If it was there in the first place some people may respect that, but as it is there's nothing to refer to. So it seems to me the first step would be to agree on something, a few things. Of course, this is always harder after the fact. My guess is, when a group gets this big it takes on a life of it's own, and the owner generally wouldn't want to do anything to mess with that. Of course, he does have the right to do what he wants. In the real world this board is his property.
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Considering Leaving? Consider Larc's comments..
by DannyBear inmaybe this is the time, to stand up and be counted.
larc says it so well in this e-mail to me:.
****thank you for your kind words and your recognition of me via e mail, on.
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Introspection
I can appreciate your point Mark. But again, what actually do you propose? Simon has designated a forum where they can post that kind of stuff, just like you might have zones where a nudie bar can be built. I'd like to think there's some kind of community here, but the bottom line is I don't know how much. Maybe Simon will let us put it to a vote, or if enough people complain he just won't allow it altogether. But by how much? Most people probably lurks, a lot of the accounts are likely inactive. If you guys want you can try to get a thread going where people can sign in if they feel a certain way, I just don't know how far that would go.
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Imperfect? How's That?
by patio34 init's common to see "we're all imperfect humans" or the like.
my question is who says?
aside from the bible and religious teachings, that statement is untrue.
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Introspection
Here's something off the top of my head: I suppose being imperfect means you don't accomplish what you intend to do. For example, you may not make a throw through the basket when playing basketball every time. But it seems that all depends on an understanding and working with the relationship between you and the court, the ball and the air. Someone who has a good feel for their own body first of all, and the elements involved in play will have a better chance of making the shot every time. Of course, there are always unknowns no matter how small, so there are no guarantees. Technically, then, imperfection means you don't know everything that impacts what you set out to accomplish. Well.. Big deal. It's possible to have a good enough grasp of the situation to be reasonably sure. If perfection is dependent on unknowns then the perfect world will be kind of boring, there is nothing left to learn. Even JW theologies allows for unknowns after human perfection is achieved doesn't it?
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Considering Leaving? Consider Larc's comments..
by DannyBear inmaybe this is the time, to stand up and be counted.
larc says it so well in this e-mail to me:.
****thank you for your kind words and your recognition of me via e mail, on.
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Introspection
Danny,
You can be as magnanimous as you like Intro. But you must also extend that magnanomous attitude toward those, who see if from a different view.
You're welcome to your opinion, but just know that it's your own. You were right the first time, it is what it sounds like to you. I'm talking about accepting the situation of the board as it is right now AS A FACT, (even if you want to change it'll take time) as a whole, not when an individual engages in abusive behavior towards another. There's a big difference. You speculated that Joel's expressions are predicated upon some unknown need of his, when he basically expressed the same things I did, that it is what it is. I see no basis for this, although it may conveniently dismiss the points we make by implying some personal fault on our part. (this is, in fact an attack on the person - an ad hominem argument that doesn't address the argument itself) But you did say that you wish this is a place where your family members can come to get the facts about the witnesses, it seems to me there is more evidence pointing to a need on your part.
But I actually don't disagree with you about there being a need for better quality discussion, you can see that from my message about an alternative in a support group context. (however, it is discussion of a different type to be sure) But frankly, what can we do? Simon owns the board, so you can appeal to him. Is this board a democracy though? Can we vote on it? What do you propose as a solution? Do we need to adopt some policy? You have the right to complain, but what about actually changing the situation then? Am I to understand the new forum Simon has created is not enough of a solution as far as you're concerned?
By the way, you also misunderstood what I meant by reading between the lines. I was talking about looking at the board as a whole, that there are messages which are serious, respecfully addressing the issues and those which are not. You're under no obligation to continue reading a message if you find it objectionable. It should be clear that some authors rants are just not worth your time if you are interested in serious discussions. The fact is I am no doubt unaware of most of what has gone on, precisely because I ignore a lot of what is posted. I can't speak for others, but the fact that I'm not even aware of it shows that it has "worked" for me.
Of course, I realize that not everyone is as selective as I am in reading messages here. But it seems to me this new forum is a step in the right direction. I don't know how else we can improve upon the situation. So if you think more needs to be done, lets get down to the actual matter at hand then. Just what action can we take?