Opps, I meant to say you really DON'T NEED to be really smart or knowledgeable. Anyways my point was you just have to have an open mind and that curiosity for learning, aside from that those things are secondary, and even if someone else is smarter or knows more than you, they may never have as much fun doing it! Well anyways keep us posted won't you?
Introspection
JoinedPosts by Introspection
-
34
Starting College -- HOORAY for ME!!!
by outnfree ini am just so excited.
earlier this week i applied for admittance to my local community college and today i registered for my first class!.
(one class for the summer session to see how this college stuff plays out.).
-
-
-
34
Starting College -- HOORAY for ME!!!
by outnfree ini am just so excited.
earlier this week i applied for admittance to my local community college and today i registered for my first class!.
(one class for the summer session to see how this college stuff plays out.).
-
-
Introspection
Fun, Out. I hope you enjoy your class. I don't know how long it's been for you since you've been in school, but don't let that intimidate you or anything else for that matter. You know aside from being smart and knowing lots of things, the thing that is really important for learning is being open. Aside from that, you just need to put in the work, which unfortunately was never one of my strengths, it seems I always found a way around it, and wanted to learn about other things not taught in school. But on the other hand, when you enjoy it it's not really work! I think I probably speak for atleast a few others when I say feel free to post about the stuff you're learning in class, too. Maybe we need to start a homework forum?
-
11
Being truly free
by Introspection insome of the messages on the board have prompted me to think about this a bit, seeing as how it appears to be a theme that resurfaces every so often.
actually, one of the reasons i'm posting a separate thread is that the other ones which brings this up is usually about something more specific and has gotten really long, and to be perfectly frank i don't have the time to read through it, but i think the issue is an important one.. we can be free from the wts physically, but a certain pattern of thinking sticks with us a bit longer as i'm sure many of us are well aware.
naturally, when you're out you're going to go out into the world and explore, doing this and that, the "normal" people stuff you might say.
-
-
Introspection
Ok, I've been thinking a bit more about dealing with our conditioned JW thinking, and it seems to me you're not going to be that successful if you use other kinds of conditioning, or rather just more conditioning. But we do do that don't we? We get busy reading about how JW's don't have the truth instead about how they do, and talk about it with others, etc.
But as much as we immerse ourselves in the opposite information, all other things being equal, it will take us that much longer just to offset the years of conditioning in JW thinking. So it would only be reasonable to consider something that works on a deeper level to get over it in less time. After all, is there 5 apostates meetings a week?
It's a good thing that we're not just animals that work on conditioned behavior alone. If we stop and think about it, conditioning is a rather simplistic process isn't it? You might use language and information, but there's not much intelligence behind it, you just get used to repeating certain behavior or saying certain things. I think there's one of the key factors in a more effective way to get over this though, intelligence - and the other being what you might call clear perception.
Most of the time we have our filters on, and we just do not see some things, whether it's the outside world or our selves. (that we like to make this sharp division between ourselves and the world we're in is yet another filter) To solve any problem or skillfully work with any situation, it would only make sense to see all of it, as it is, rather than have a sort of tunnel vision. But of course the other part is intelligence - what do you actually do with it? This doesn't mean you have to be really smart, mind you, but just that you would ponder it a bit. (but not to rationalize things away) Often times the missing piece of the puzzle has been there, we've just never looked at it before.
So I think often, you may not have to do a lot. Obviously the specifics for each person will be different, but I think one thing we might look at is this personal or individual view of things. Instead of taking the usual subjective perspective of things, it may be helpful to step back and look at things as a whole, even if it is only with yourself. I think this is where journaling might be a useful tool, maybe some have already done or have been doing this. Not only can you record what you've been doing, where you've been or where your mind has been dwelling, it also stretches through time. Think of it as a long term study of one individual, and of course aside from the size the long duration of a scientific study also makes if very valuable. You can simply go back to read it each week, each month and maybe at the end of the year to see what's happend in that period of time. You might also carry one that's small enough to take wherever you go, and maybe compile it or just keep multiple volumes after you're through with one. Of course, this is by no means a new idea, and using a system of long term record keeping is itself an intelligent way of processing the stuff.
Now I'm not one that is big on sticking with something anally, (no pun intended) in fact I didn't think about journaling when I started this message. And in fact you could get addicted to some practice and then lost track of why you're doing it in the first place. But the nice thing about keeping things long term is that you can always go back to recall what you did between entries, you don't have to be really strict about doing it everyday or whatever. Even if you don't remember all of it, and the memory may be a bit distorted, that's just fine from the perspective of being aware of where your mind is, especially over a long period of time. So I am all for being spontaneous, so long as it is REAL spontaneity, and not just more conditioned behavior or something that doesn't have that creative edge to it. Hmm, it does sound like a good idea - I think I'll try it myself..
-
4
Glad to see the Press Releases
by JWinSF injust got back from a short nyc vacation [nope, didn't go to the headquarters --- didn't want to have to go by ground zero and get depressed only to be further depressed by the site of the wtbts].. anyhow, how wonderful to see press getting on the band wagon [and major, heavy hitters like the san francisco chronicle/examiner] about the jws dirty secret regarding child molesters.
they actually make the catholic church look clean.. out of curiosity, i had to see the dubz official site.
natch, they had prominently displayed a series of articles against child molestation.
-
-
Introspection
Any of you guys have a hard copy of that issue, or is it only on the web?
By the way, have you heard about the BBQ next month? They should send us something soon, I just heard from Paul at the San Rafael group last Sunday.
-
11
Being truly free
by Introspection insome of the messages on the board have prompted me to think about this a bit, seeing as how it appears to be a theme that resurfaces every so often.
actually, one of the reasons i'm posting a separate thread is that the other ones which brings this up is usually about something more specific and has gotten really long, and to be perfectly frank i don't have the time to read through it, but i think the issue is an important one.. we can be free from the wts physically, but a certain pattern of thinking sticks with us a bit longer as i'm sure many of us are well aware.
naturally, when you're out you're going to go out into the world and explore, doing this and that, the "normal" people stuff you might say.
-
-
Introspection
Glad to hear that Zanex. And I didn't even have to resort to quoting Jack Handy ..
-
8
Why I, You, We keep coming back here
by Bridgette ini always say i do not believe in demons, but i find that perhaps i do.
not the kind that haunt and lay in wait for bad little, straying jw's to make a false move with a ouji board, or a misthought purchase at a garage sale, but the kind that haunt a childhood, that steal souls--the scarist kind--the human kind.
i was inspired by farkel's post this morning (btw, farkel's posts are never boring) to write this, and try, once again to exorcise these demons.
-
-
Introspection
Thanks for that Bridgette. I read the following story from a book on group psychotherapy yesterday, and I thought it would be appropriate to post it here:
There is and old Hasidic story of a rabbi who had a conversation with the Lord about Heaven and Hell. "I will show you Hell," said the Lord, and led the rabbi into a room containing a group of famished, desperate people sitting around a large, circular table. In the center of the table rested an enormous pot of stew, more than enough for everyone. The smell of the stew was delicious and made the rabbi's mouth water. Yet no one ate. Each diner at the table held a very long-handled spoon--long enough to reach the pot and scoop up a spoonful of stew, but too long to get the food into one's mouth. The rabbi saw that their suffering was indeed terrible and bowed his head in compassion. "Now I will show you Heaven," said the Lord, and they entered another room, identical to the first--same large, round table, same enormous pot of stew, same long-handled spoons. Yet there was a gaiety in the air: everyone appeared well nourished, plump, and exuberant. The rabbi could not understand and looked to the Lord. "It is simple," said the Lord, "but it requires a certain skill. You see, the people in this room have learned to feed each other!
-
11
Being truly free
by Introspection insome of the messages on the board have prompted me to think about this a bit, seeing as how it appears to be a theme that resurfaces every so often.
actually, one of the reasons i'm posting a separate thread is that the other ones which brings this up is usually about something more specific and has gotten really long, and to be perfectly frank i don't have the time to read through it, but i think the issue is an important one.. we can be free from the wts physically, but a certain pattern of thinking sticks with us a bit longer as i'm sure many of us are well aware.
naturally, when you're out you're going to go out into the world and explore, doing this and that, the "normal" people stuff you might say.
-
-
Introspection
I heard something yesterday that I think kind of fits in with this, and that is that it's not enough to wake up from the dream, but the dream itself has to wake up.
As far as how it might apply here, I think it's a matter of accepting the fact that a part of us might still have that JW thinking, and often it appears as a psychological demon or what have you. Certainly it may be too big to deal with all at once, but I don't want to give the impression that we want to ignore it either. After all, if it's a part of us, how can we push it away? The only thing we'd be successful in doing is to ignore it, and meanwhile it still sits there even if it is in its own little compartment shielded from the rest of your mind. Even if we acknowledge that it is there, if we don't deal with it then it's rather like being in denial without the denial, because aside from reocgnizing it is there we're not really doing anything about it.
Now of course being on this board, we recognize that there IS something to deal with, and we do deal with it, but I think that might be where the difference between waking up from the dream and waking up the dream itself comes in. You can say "okay, I'm not a JW anymore, that's messed up, that's not me" and that's all fine and good, and some part of you is over it. But of course that part of you that still has some JW thinking doesn't magically disappear either. I think the best way to deal with this, and the best way to describe it is to not push it away or cling to it, but be IN it. After all, in reality you really have no choice, it IS a part of you, it's just a matter of whether you're conscious of it or not. I think until we approach it with this attiude of acceptance, (only the fact that it is there presently, not the belief that it will always be there) anything we say will be just words, it will be a separate intellectual construct and only an idea, whereas thoroughly integrating a new way of thinking involves much more than a recognition of the logic behind it. In other words, you don't want to talk about it like it's something or someone else you've managed to pick apart and analyze, whereas that someone is none other than yourself, or actually a part of yourself.
Now we can get into details about how you actually do this, but I think the most important thing, and certainly the first thing is to recognize it's there, and not to move away from it or push it away, because if you don't see exactly what it is how can you work with it? But remember too that though it is a part of you, it is not you, because you as a whole are more than that. I think once we do this, it will be kind of like a lucid dream, and knowing that it is a dream we can control what we do, and not just be subject to the scripts our unconscious mind would have us play out.
-
7
that jw mother o' mine...
by airwlk149 inyeah.
so i told my mother i have been dating stephanie or close to year.... she flipped.
i know that she wouldn't agree with it but now she won't call me at all or anything.. she made me feel so guilty and dirty but i shouldn't.... whatever.. i am confused.. love ya bunches,.
-
-
Introspection
Katie, there's a support group in Marin county tomorrow. Give Paul a call at (510)251-1848 and he can tell you how to get there. In case you don't have it anymore the website is http://pweb.jps.net/~xjwsfbay/ and I'll be there so you'll kind of know someone there.
Mark
-
27
So, what's everyone doing tonight????????
by butalbee ini hope everyone is having a hell of a lot more fun than i am tonight, for i am here all alone, doing nothing but staring at the computer screen aimlessly lost in thought.
-
-
Introspection
4) When they inform you that this is BURGER KING, Tell them: "WHAT THE HELL AM I DOING HERE, SCREW THE ORDER"
Or as an alternative, you might say "I thought at Burger King, you can have it your way!!!??!"
-
26
**Can trust ever be earned once it is lost?**
by butalbee inin a relationship, their is 3 basic components: .
1. trust.
2. loyalty.
-
-
Introspection
Sure it's like faith in a way. Of course, there are different kinds of faith, and blind faith is certainly one of them. To me faith in general is a belief in possibility, but at the same time not going so far as to think the object of faith has concrete existence. Faith in this sense is very much like an unknowing, but that includes both what you would prefer and what you would not prefer, you plain don't know.
As far as how it relates here, I think it would be helpful to consider the oppsite, doubt. To be more specific, doubt is a lot like blind faith, and these two things which appear to be opposites are really very similar in a way. If you stop and think about it, people typically needs a reason to either believe or doubt something. The problem with this, though is that it is far too simplistic, and even if one reason is enough to believe or doubt, (another form of belief in terms of what I'm talking about, belief of some degree in the falsehood of something) often it's not a very good one.
I think when it comes to something like a relationship, there is likely more than one factor to look at. Any one factor like trust has to be seen in context along with the other factors. It's a matter of understanding how they work with each other. But I think probably what's more important here is to avoid the danger of trying to make something happen, which inevitably leads to disappointment. Heck, many of us can't even make things happen with ourselves, let alone in a relationship with another person. So I think it has to start with understanding yourself. (yeah, big surprise from the guy using 'introspection' as a nic) But where else are you going to start?
I think the bottom line is, can we change? When you ask yourself that question, you may need to deal with doubt. But just don't get the wrong idea and think in terms of "can I change what I'm doing so that I get this outcome.." that's just trying to manipulate things to go your way, and you are really not changing, only your tactics on how to get what you want has changed. The fact of the matter is when you get right down to it, we only have so much we can do to change things. The best and most reasonable place to start is with ourselves.