Posts by monkeyman

66

Everyone Please Enter, I'm New Here

by tryingtoexit in

jw
friends

i've been lurking in the shadows of this forum for about 6 months or so.

i'll try to be brief here, but i apologize in advance if this is not "brief enough" for you.

anyways i'm a 27 year old african american young man, i was born and raised a jehovah's witness.

monkeyman

As you can see by this forum, your situation is all too common. The problem is that the JW "community" does not "allow" for disengaging. That is why you get the judgmental questions like “why do you sit in the back?” etc.

For me, I did not want to give up the “community” that I had known and had a deep history with. I did not want to alienate my family either. But again, JW are not allowed to disengage from religious activity and still enjoy the company of the only community you have ever known. Frankly, it’s not fair, and it angers me that it’s intended to be that way.

Some are “liberated” by explosively expressing their doubts and opinions. I believe they should be allowed the freedom to do this. But with our community this only results in being ostracized and socially alienated from friends and family. I don’t like being forced into making that choice.

My suggestion is to attend some different local congregations, see what kind of reception you get and settle on one that you and your family like the best. I go by myself so I don’t have the family issues you might still face. But I don’t go in FS and only on Sunday. I don’t get hounded and still maintain a good “community” standing. I keep controversial beliefs and ideas to myself.

I don’t have the pressure to perform. I am liberated from all responsibilities. I am able to enjoy a “normal” relationship with friends and family. It’s not ideal but it works for me. I hope you can find that situation.

104

New Light: Don't hold hands during prayers

by RR in

from the watchtower november 15 study edition.. 19 when we are being represented in public prayer, we need to display reverential "fear of god.

" (1 pet 2:17) there may be a proper time and place for some actions that would be inappropriate at a christian meeting.

(eccl 3:1) for instance, suppose someone sought to have all in a group link arms or hold hands during prayer.

monkeyman

Honestly, f*ck them!
Jeff, you crack me up! Much better than a compelling argument.

48

Oct.15th WT GB Tells JW Rank & File-You are Our Belongings Stay Humble

by flipper in

jw
friends

the mind control in this latest oct.15th is amazing.

our lurking jw friend sent us this and it basically tellls witnesses that their opinions don't matter and only god is good .

it belittles independent thinking and explains that each rank and file jw is owned by the alleged " faithful and discreet slave " .

monkeyman

How sad! On a miniature scale in our local congregation, when elders began to enforce their "pet peeves" (these weren't spiritual things, they were like how many trips you were allowed to the bathroom per meeting) and the flock felt abused, the elders instead of recognizing the response of the flock as pain, they perceived it as "murmering".

Thus began an onslaught of "announcements" before EVERY Service meeting regarding the consequences of "disagreeing with the elders" along with a series of "special needs" parts featuring Dathan, Abiram, and Korah who were murmerers and DIED for their ATTITUDE. It was relentless.

WOW! What a guilt trip.

It sounds like that is what is going on now in a global scale. If you are in pain over your circumstances, and are unhappy with "new light", ITS YOUR FAULT!

And if you dont like it, we are going to make it more your fault if you complain.

How can this be?

37

JW's Value Position & Appearances over Displaying God's Qualities

by flipper in

jw
friends

before some of the long time members here say to me " tell us something we don't know flipper " - please hear me out on this one.

some of the newly exiting jw's may not know this info - but need to be made aware of it.. as a young man i was raised in the cult jehovah's witnesses and remained from birth until age 44 .

i was never, ever asked by my elder father in all those years the question, " son, how is your relationship with jehovah doing ?

monkeyman

Albert Einstein said "Not everything that's counted counts, and not everything that counts is counted, "

One of my favorite quotes. One of the reasons hours, magazine placements, meeting attendance, etc, are such of high priority and valued is because they are "counted". Other things that are more important like shepherding calls, helping friends develop a better relationship with God, and caring for one another are not valued because they are not "counted" on a report.

It goes all the way up the ranks. Just one CO visit proves the point. In reccommending brothers for assignment, whats given the most weight is Hours, placements, mtg attendance and whatever is on his publisher record card.

According to reports on this site, This is prevelant everywhere. It doesnt appear its going to change soon.

This is why brown nosers and rule loving nazi- types thrive in this environment. All they have to do is meet the numbers requirement and poof, they now have uber authority over a congregation of people.

Ever since I was a boy I had the goal of being an elder so I could help others. I spent 10 yrs as a MS and 14 as an elder. I found few opportunities to really "help" people.

But when I did, it was very meaningful and still get people thanking me for that help decades after the fact.

But, when its all said and done, I think it was worth it, how little it was.

31

Is there an honest way to make a living online?

by AK - Jeff in

our area is hit hard by this recession.

unemployment is out the roof - close to 18%.. my wife has been trying to find work for over a year.

she has done so very diligently.

monkeyman

Goofed up...... ok continue

I sell a health benefits package to people that normally cant get health insurance. It is a national employer group plan so people can automatically qualify even if they have some serious health issues.

I buy leads on the internet for $3 a piece but you can get a lot of business from word of mouth.

You just need to know how to explain a concept. That shouldnt be too hard for a witness. You dont need an insurance license either since you aren't selling an insurance product, you are getting someone a part time job. You are a benefits enroller.

On a sale of $400 a month you will make $864. Some of that is advanced and the rest of it is paid to you "as earned" per month as people pay for their benefits. If that's of any interest, let me know.

[email protected]

31

Is there an honest way to make a living online?

by AK - Jeff in

our area is hit hard by this recession.

unemployment is out the roof - close to 18%.. my wife has been trying to find work for over a year.

she has done so very diligently.

monkeyman

Jeff, dont know if this applies, but you decide.

I sell a benefit

11

A New Term

by monkeyman in

jw identify any who cease to attend meetings as those were stumbled fell away drifted away or not of our sort.. .

this is grossly unfair and blatantly untrue in most cases.

in my case, i have 2 family members that no longer attend because they were abused by several elders.

monkeyman

Bluecanary... "stumbled" still implies that the fault lies with you. It implies You were somehow incompetent, weak, ill footed, poorly balanced, not paying attention to where you were going, etc.

Does that apply to you?

Still ok with that term?

My point is that most people accept the terms they are labeled with. And that is because those are the only terms we are given. And then we wrongly accept the guilt that comes along with it. If that doesnt apply to you, then dont accept the guilt and the blame.

You are a victim. And OTHERS are to blame.

Doesnt that feel good?

16

Compare Bethel with the LDS HQ in Salt Lake City

by POs Son in

jw
friends

i have been to both, bethel (all 3 complexes: brooklyn, walkill, paterson plus the jersey city stanley theater) as a teenager, and to tour the lds (mormon) complex in salt lake city as an adult.

i did bethel as a "witness" child, and slc as a totally non-jw adult.

the lds complex seemed more open to the public, inviting and comfortable.

monkeyman

I’ve seen both and they were eerily similar. The people were all dressed up like CO’s and elders wives.

Men had suits and women wore long dresses. The buildings were more churchlike but the people were very similar.

I had business dealings with a woman in Utah. The AAA club will tell you that Utah is about 75% Mormon. That’s a crock. It’s more like 60% Mormon and 40% EX Mormon.

Ex Mormons are treated as disfellowshipped. So they basically have their own social/work system to survive in a Mormon world.

Interestingly, Utah has one of the highest suicide rates for teenagers in the country. I also saw an inordinate amount of Gothic teenagers.

There is similarity also in their culture because it is so strict and extremely conservative. They also have similarities in power hungry clergy types preying on the flock. (According to the ex Mormon I spoke with who gave her experience)

11

A New Term

by monkeyman in

jw identify any who cease to attend meetings as those were stumbled fell away drifted away or not of our sort.. .

this is grossly unfair and blatantly untrue in most cases.

in my case, i have 2 family members that no longer attend because they were abused by several elders.

monkeyman

JW identify any who cease to attend meetings as those were “stumbled” “fell away” “drifted away” or “not of our sort”.

This is grossly unfair and blatantly untrue in most cases.

In my case, I have 2 family members that no longer attend because they were “abused” by several elders. Without details, they were forced to comply with pet peeves of these elders that had nothing to do with Bible principles. It was strictly an abuse of power.

The final blow was when they were mocked from the platform as being “murmerers” and cast as the Bible character Korah when they were anything but. The emotional “abuse” became so bad the only resort to peace and well being was to quit going to the place they received the abuse. How Sad. For all the times elders are referred to as “a hiding place from the wind”…in this case and in many other cases, they ARE THE WIND.

Now here comes the evil part. The innocent victims are the ones labeled as being “stumbled” “drifted away” and “fell away”, as if they had anything to do with it. Sadly, these are the only terms JW are allowed to use with such ones. The truth is they don’t apply at all. These terms infer the guilt belongs with the wronged party instead of the wrongdoer (the elder).

So we are left without a proper term for someone who has been abused by the elders and no longer attends meetings just because such an event was never recorded in the Bible. JW would have us believe that if it isn’t in the Bible, it doesn’t exist. Not!

So here is a new term, “Elder Abuse”. I just invented it. There, now you have it, an appropriate and applicable term that we can use for victims who through no fault of their own, no longer attend meetings. They stay home to protect themselves from further emotional harm.

JW would have us believe that type of abuse doesn’t exist. Unfortunately, it does.

11

New Changes the WT Society should make next

by monkeyman in

ok, here are some things to think about for fun since they wont ever be enacted.

but its fun to fantasize.

please input your thoughts and suggestions!.

monkeyman

Ok, here are some things to think about for fun since they wont EVER be enacted. But its fun to fantasize. Please input your thoughts and suggestions!

1. Elders from now on will be elected by a majority vote of the congregation (as they used to be)

Wont this be fun!? This will eliminate the "good ol boyz club" Of course the GB will screw it up by mandating that you have to be in the congregation for at least a year and have an 8 hr 6 wk avg in field service to vote. Elders voted for would have to have an 8 hr six week avg. But thats ok. Field service will get an amazing boost in numbers. Can u imagine how many elders will quake in their boots about being eliminated from their position because of having to be answerable to the cong? How sweet. No longer will they have carte blanche in dealing with the congregation without retribution.

2. Judicial committees will now have a judge and jury of 6. Defendents will also be allowed to have a representative, lawyer. Even if the GB designates the Judge from local congregations, it will hold the elders prosecuting the case accountable for their actions. Protocol would have to be enacted to prevent goofy things taking place during a judicial hearing. The jury would be made up of 6 members of the congregation. Certain qualfications would be made to participate on a jury, but that's ok.

Anyway, with these things enacted, the friends will he happy with the elders and unafraid of judicial committees.

Just think?

Your thoughts?