what would happen?.
aren't these three related things some of the hardest to explain to interested people?
most jws don't focus on these teachings at first and will instead focus on more appealing bible teachings.
Yup, Isaac - "investigative judgement period"...sufficiently vague and mysterious to suit the JW lingo setup.
No ugly "end generation" or "time of the end" stuff to worry about - and probably no current JW would know the 7th Day uses it too...
I like it.
i would like to know does jhw teaches what grace is , and how to recieve grace without any works , merits and qualifications?.
what is saved grace to jhw?.
if we are saved in the name of jesus why do they have to do things like go witnessing , and etc to get god to accept them when grace has already made us righteous un jesus and not jehovah?.
OK, that was about what I thought.
This is a good place to learn understanding of the JW cult, probably though not a very likely place to evangalize or promote other non-JW interest web sites.
what would happen?.
aren't these three related things some of the hardest to explain to interested people?
most jws don't focus on these teachings at first and will instead focus on more appealing bible teachings.
I have thought for quite a while that the simple instruction for everybody to partake of the emblems could be done to avoid having to take count of the ever-increasing "remnant". It might make it possible to hang on to the literal 144,000 - in theory, they could still be around, just not counted at the memorial. After all, there is absolutely nothing biblically that teaches a "second class of christians who do not take the Lord's evening meal."
Of course, then I realize that this is probably not realistic - the JW heirarchy is much too dependent on the "two-class" system and much of that comes from the idea of the annointed being reinforced as the only ones in the new covenant and the only ones fit to partake.
I think 1914 probably has to stay with them - even if it becomes more and more meaningless over the years. Probably some new "time period" could be thought up to cover it - they have already muddled the generation so badly that it cannot be likely touched for ten or more years now.
It is pathetic to have at least three basic doctrines which are ticking time bombs with no realistic way out other than to admit they were flat wrong.
reading jeff's thread about dress made me think of my one and only trip to bethel.. i can't remember if i was babtised at the time, but i went with a bus load of jws.. like someone said in the last thread, printing presses and empty rooms.
i was very disapointed, however i don't think i had any pre-concieved notions of what it would be like.
what i was diapointed in was so much of the "tour" was walking hallways looking at exhibits behind glass.
Which Bethel was that, facepalm?
many argue that the truth will always be the truth because of core beliefs: no hellfire, no trinity, no immortal soul, adam and eve lost paradise (and thus paradise on earth will be restored and the need for the ransom), the issue of universal soverignty, last days, loving brotherhood, using god's name.. most people are attracted to the truth becuase of at least one or more of these beliefs and refer to these often as the 'ring of truth'.
this makes it very easy to then shrug of any of the past mistakes or any current teaching that is hard to understand or believe.
i myself am struggling with this.
I mean everything! This is why I am having doubts about my doubts, not matter how reasonable, legitimate, and logical the "negative" doubts are.
For rational people, there are certain things that once seen, cannot be unseen. Certain bells that once rung, cannot be unrung.
This is a common stage of the process of gaining freedom from the witness domination. Great rewards (intellectual honesty, and personal harmony, for two) will overcome any negativity in time.
a quote from "crisis of conscience".
don't be afraid to read it.. .
whatever the initial distress - a distress that sometimes follows the demenaing experience of being interogated by men who, in effect strip one of dignity, make the weight of their authority felt, and presume to judge adversely one's standing with god - however torn one may feel inside, afterward there is a distinct feeling of relief, of peace.
Welcome again, mentallyfree31.
i would like to know does jhw teaches what grace is , and how to recieve grace without any works , merits and qualifications?.
what is saved grace to jhw?.
if we are saved in the name of jesus why do they have to do things like go witnessing , and etc to get god to accept them when grace has already made us righteous un jesus and not jehovah?.
Evangalist1 - The ten post limit is temporary - it is raised after a while (& if the new poster is not a troll or whatever).
Most of us here are ex-JWs of various religious notions. Many of us here are non-religious.
Just as a curiousity - did you come here to learn about JWs, or to evangalize?
i was reading an article about this subject, and the author was explaining how so many new discoveries in space right now are hard to explain.. these comments were also made:.
livio (the author) also picks up on an intriguing theme left dangling in my lovely easter conversation with vatican astronomers guy consolmagno and george coyne the enduring question of whether mathematical truths, laws of nature, are discovered or invented.
he unapologetically offers his conclusion that there is no either/or answer possible here that mathematics is both invented and discovered.
Mario Livio is one of my very favorite science writers.
I have his book The Golden Ratio - the story of phi, from 2002.
Yes, I agree with the premise - all great science comes from the desire to solve mystery. And to solve it logically in a provable manner - not just to make up some theological mish-mash to explain away things we do not understand.
on t v i recently saw some of the film "knowledge" starring nicholas cage .
the idea of the film was that the main character had knowledge of coming disasters .
he was distraught - desperate - panicking to try and stop it happening.
Thanks to all for their input..perhaps it shows that the ones to whom it does seem wrong, are the ones who end up here.
That is very likely true. The other two groups are people who don't really believe it, and the psychopaths who LIKE IT.
BTW It really gets me angry when I hear them joking and giggling about Armageddon - as if it was a great holiday or something
Especially disgusting when done by the circuit overseer or uber-elders. Also especially disgusting when displayed in watchtower illustrations showing happy witnesses walking around in sunlit fields with stepford wife grins on their faces while the worldly people are zapped by lightning, getting hit by asteroids, or falling into crevasses.
It really makes them look completely thoughtless and immune to human pain and destruction - as long as it is other humans, and not them.
i've always been told that i have a very good personality, that i'm humorous, etc.. one elder called me over and said that i was "smiling too much".
the other elders talked to the elder who counseled me and he came back to say that i should be like i was .
.
I was counseled for buying a new 1967 Corvair Monza 2-door coupe as my first car. I honestly had no idea that it was somehow "wrong" to not have a 4-door car. I would not have bought a 4 door anyway, but it was true that I did not know this was "wrongdoing".
Nobody said much of anything when I traded it for a 1969 Porsche 911T Targa two years later.
Guess they thought it would not have made any difference -
