Posts by inbetween

25

Advice needed about my study with a JW.

by Resistance is Futile in

jw
friends

i've never been a jw, and i'm having a difficult time trying to understand the perspective of a born-in jw.

i want to ask questions that will cause this family member to began to think outside the box, but i don't want to trip off any apostate alarms and have him put his guard up.

i also don't want to waste time and energy asking questions that he can easily brush off and give the prepackaged watchtower answer without having to really think.

inbetween

fact is, the average witness isnt aware of 1919,proof for them is John 13:35 and Matthew 24:14

love among themselves

and the preaching wordlwide.

For a witness, these arguments cannot be easily overthrown. The reasons are :

1) love among themselves: It comes down to personal opinions and experiences. If you meet a happy dub (even though the happiness might be only on the surface) he is brainwashed into appreciating the world-wide brotherhood. The shunning policy, as a proof the the conditional state of this love, will not count, since it is presented as a loving way, unless he personally experienced it and thought about it deeper (most don't)

2) preaching, while it is obvious, that others participate in preaching in one way or the other, dubs are convinced that only they are recognized by it. Which is true, just look at the media, often portraying witnesses either being on the street or knocking one someones door.

Therefore, unless you have the time and energy to discuss these matters deeply, I would take another road.

Lets say, for arguments sake, the love shown and the preaching are indeed Gods will. So, does this mean, if an org does Gods will, they become automatically Gods org ? Lets say, the catholic church, they, even witnesses must admit, in some areas do Gods will. they distribute Gods word, they entertain charities etc...does this make them Gods org ?

So in order to be Gods org, an organisation must do everything according to Gods will ? So then, why were there changes with JW, regarding pagan traditions for example (christmas until the 20's ) ? Or matters like voting, civil service, blood fractions, organ transplants ?

Even if JW today do everything according to God swill, who really can determine this ? Only God himself, right ? So, were is his approval shown ? What certificate did he give ? O r what clear sign of his approval, that can only be traced to divine origin ?

How does he correct his org, as he did in the past ? In israel he sent his prophets to set matter straight, whom does he send today, since even JW admit the org is not perfect and need correction ? How is this done ?

Finally the fact that an org does everythign according to Gods will does not mean, God has an organisation ! This is a different matter. For example, he used organisations in the past (Isreal) who did often not things according to Gods will, and still were his org.

24

Two possible reasons why some elders stay in the organization.

by Iamallcool in

do you think some elders stay in the organization just because of prestige and getting horny at some judicial committee meetings?

.

inbetween

some may, but the majority no.

Most stay because they really believe its the truth.

Some may be disillusioned, but have no real alternative. That can really suck at times. The deeper you're in, the harder you can get out.

For an elder, even to quit his responsibilities,this brings up several aspects:

1) questions why ? What reason can ge give with what consequences ? If he says it is stress related, what other elders will offer help to relieve stress, but at the same time pressure him to remain. Is it health, well, its no reason to quit. Is some bad conduct ? Well further investigations are being made. Worst of all, does he have doubts ? Is he spiritual weak or even borderline apostate ?

2) Rumors will start, regardless, since the reasons for quiting are not announced. Family will suffer to some extent. Especially if the elder was known as liberal and open minded, this might backfire too.

3) His position to help others, especially family, to think about certain matters are being diminished. He even might become "bad association" sooner as you can say "governing body"

All this would not matter, if he is single and has no family in the "truth", then he could pull out easily, perhaps loosing his social envrionment, but able to build up a new one. This might be also difficult, but its more worth it than loosing his family or marriage too.

However, it all comes down to ones personal situation anyway.

59

New Curcuit Overseer Brainwash Talk....Obey the Slave even if you find a serious Flaw in JW Doctrine

by foolsparadise in

jw
friends

http://www.sixscreensofthewatchtower.com/media/circuit-overseer-5-15-11.mp3.

.

brainwashing at its best here.

inbetween

is it an officail outline, or one of the talks, the co chooses (I think midweek is his choice, the rest outlines from the society )

15

Zone overseer visit in middle Europe Lösch GB member talk

by inbetween in

thousands of witnesses carried by car or mostly busses joined the great worship of the gb, oh sorry jehovah.. here is a short summary of the talk given by losch: (my thoughts in brackets).

1) the beginning was mostly about closing branches, kingdom halls etc, but all a proof of gods spirit of course.. then some experiences, you find in a yearbook type as well,.

2) obey the slave, even if you dont fully understand, he compared it with a child trusting their parents (quit condescending, sheeple are like dumb children, mama org will think for them).

inbetween

yes, out of touch with reality, that is the issue.

Listening to his talk, I got the impression, that he believes the nonsense he says.

victim of victims sort of thing....

15

Zone overseer visit in middle Europe Lösch GB member talk

by inbetween in

thousands of witnesses carried by car or mostly busses joined the great worship of the gb, oh sorry jehovah.. here is a short summary of the talk given by losch: (my thoughts in brackets).

1) the beginning was mostly about closing branches, kingdom halls etc, but all a proof of gods spirit of course.. then some experiences, you find in a yearbook type as well,.

2) obey the slave, even if you dont fully understand, he compared it with a child trusting their parents (quit condescending, sheeple are like dumb children, mama org will think for them).

inbetween

To my knowlegde , he gave the talk in Germany and in Austria.

I will try to get a recording. What I remember, in the context, of course, he did not praise the Nazis, but he kind of used this example, not directly what we should imitate, but like its a unity the Nazis desired, but we as wintesses actually have. something like that.

IMHO it was quit stupid to use such a comparison especially in German speaking areas, were it is indeed a sensitive subject.

However, to be fair, the rest in his talk was of course, how unbias witnesses are towards other nationalities or other ethnic groups.

15

Zone overseer visit in middle Europe Lösch GB member talk

by inbetween in

thousands of witnesses carried by car or mostly busses joined the great worship of the gb, oh sorry jehovah.. here is a short summary of the talk given by losch: (my thoughts in brackets).

1) the beginning was mostly about closing branches, kingdom halls etc, but all a proof of gods spirit of course.. then some experiences, you find in a yearbook type as well,.

2) obey the slave, even if you dont fully understand, he compared it with a child trusting their parents (quit condescending, sheeple are like dumb children, mama org will think for them).

inbetween

Thousands of witnesses carried by car or mostly busses joined the great worship of the GB, oh sorry Jehovah.

Here is a short summary of the talk given by Lösch: (my thoughts in brackets)

1) The beginning was mostly about closing branches, Kingdom halls etc, but all a proof of Gods spirit of course.

then some experiences, you find in a yearbook type as well,

2) obey the slave, even if you dont fully understand, he compared it with a child trusting their parents (quit condescending, sheeple are like dumb children, Mama org will think for them)

3) shocking: while he talked a lot about the world wide unity, he compared this feature of JW with Hitler, qouting "Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer".(=one people, one empire, one leader)

(this really upset even some of the brothers, I dont know what rid him to say something like that. Its a big no-no here. If the media hears it, it might easily result in a bad press. On the other hand, the media in general does not care much about this event anyway)

4) interesting: He mentioned, that besides preaching, good, charitable works towards neighbours are equally important.

(Is this a new stance towards charitable works ? Before, the org always looked down upon other religions for their charity, while not going door to door, now its even considered equal and Christian ?)

All in all, he is a boring speaker, and said nothing special, sure the high expectations of the brothers were disappointed. I could tell, not because the witnesses complained afterwards (except the Hitler qoute), but nobody really was enthusiastic afterwards. On the way home and in the next meeting was just business as usual.

27

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 05-15-2011 WT Study (NEAR)

by blondie in

jw
friends

comments you will not hear at the 05-15-2011 wt study (march 15, 2011, pages 12-16)(trust god/end near).

review comments will be headed by comments.

wt material from today's wt will be in black.

inbetween

is it just me, or do the articles lately only consist of the following:

do this (field service, meeting, study)

don't do that (pornography, college, career, flirting, entertainment)

oh and obey, obey, obey the slave (what an irony actually )

soooooooooooooooooooooo boring.....

34

What they DON'T tell you

by Black Man in

jw
friends

hey everybody, i'm in the middle of an ongoing debate w/some jws and they are asserting that everyone knows what they're getting into when they are studying and getting baptized and that nobody forces anyone to become a jw and that you can leave anytime you want.

ok, we know that's not true.

how would you counter that argument?

inbetween

Regarding adults, its true, future witnesses get lots of information, what it means to be a witness, also disfellowshipping and blood issue is part of the study and questions leading up to babtism.

however,

it does not apply to minors, they are just not able to evaluate all the implications of the matter

and

in general the information presented is very one-sided, (example blood issue), the other sides are either ignored or misrepresented.

however, in defense of the witnesses, I have to say, no matter what you are getting yourself (as adult) into, may it be a contract, or a religion, or political party, you have the responsibility and especially today also the possibility to make extent research. If you decide maybe only based on emotional reasons, then to a point, its your fault. Any religion or company or whatever will always give the best impression of their own. Its up to the "competition" to point out the flaws.

The fact, that the whole handling of dfd is unbiblical, harsh and full of rules is another story.

69

Any videogamers here?

by R.F. in

this is my #1 hobby.

i have a ps2, psp, and xbox.

i was mainly an xbox kind of guy until they completely abandoned it soon after the 360 was released.

inbetween

anybody know "mass effect " ? Got it recently on PC, loved it.

Normally I´m into history based real time strategy and fantasy based RPG, both on PC and console (PS3).

oh and occasionally a sport or race game.....

53

Do Active Witnesses Find Meetings Exciting?

by Band on the Run in

jw
friends

kh meetings were utter hell.

the boredom, particularly for a child, was awful.

i feel it was a form of child abuse.

inbetween

boring, mostly boring, especially the service meeting,

what kind of is interesting are the highlights, at least closest to the bible. the rest, man...so boring.....

the watchtower and bookstudy can be a bit more interesting, if you did not prepare....then at least you can get angry about it, when you read it the first time ;-)