Posts by simon17

You'll find good people in all walks of life, and you'll certainly find many friendly faces no matter what sort of "group" you have: religious, band fan clubs, booster clubs, universities, etc.

48

JW ADVANTAGES vs DISADVANTAGES

by DesirousOfChange in

jw
friends

this earlier topic [why do it feel bad about my children leaving jw religion?

] is what causes me to ask this question:.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/208031/1/why-do-i-feel-bad-about-my-children-leaving-the-jw-religion.

simon17

A revelation for me was a survey conducted by www.barna.org that found that people who profess religious morals have the same divorce rate, for instance, as "worldly" people.

I think the divorce rates, as reported, are virtually the same. But again there is a dichotomy that creates this. The constant stressing of remaining together forces many people to stay together (and I think, for the most part, this is a good thing, especially when children are concerned). But then the dating of JW's puts an overemphasis on marriage, and forces many couple to marry who really shouldn't be together. The problem with witness dating is that things as innocuous as too many texts and phonecalls constitutes dating. It is so easy to be dating, it requires very little. But then, dating immediately implies that marriage is expected. So people are thrust very quickly from showing interest to marriage without the in between steps.

People need to figure out how to relate to members of the opposite sex. You have to go out with a girl or guy alone to see how to react. You have to date a few people to see what is out there. Only after those things can you be appropriately ready for marriage.

JW dating advice is so misguided that is forces together so many people who are just not ready or understading of the commitment that marriage means.

48

JW ADVANTAGES vs DISADVANTAGES

by DesirousOfChange in

jw
friends

this earlier topic [why do it feel bad about my children leaving jw religion?

] is what causes me to ask this question:.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/208031/1/why-do-i-feel-bad-about-my-children-leaving-the-jw-religion.

simon17

Any measure of higher 'morality' among JWs is simply due to the organization being a high control group.

Agreed on this. I think you will find a larger percentage of JWs who are apparently very moral (i.e., not going around having premarital sex,committing adultery, trying drugs, smoking, etc). However, its due to the controlling nature of the group. Children are not learning their limits and forming an understanding of how to act. Instead they are putting up barriers to action and experimentation. What happens is if they ever get beyond those boundaries, they haven't learned how to set their own boundaries and restrictions and just go absolutely crazy. So yes, I think a JW kid has a better than average chance of being a very moral responsible person. But they also have a better than average chance of being absolutely out of control to the point of being self-harming. They have a lower chance of being a typical teenager who goes to a few parties, breaks a few curfews, hooks up with a few boyfriends, joins a frat house, but then gets a job, gets married and settles down to a happy, even-keel life.

140

Are atheists less imaginative about the unknown?

by sabastious in

jw
friends

almost every atheist i have ever come across i can get along with well.

i love to debate and talk about the world around us and they seem to as well, but i feel like i get a lot of "eye rolls" from the atheists i speak to.. it's ironic that i am six feet six inches tall because i would describe myself as a man with his head in the clouds.

it's up there most of the time and i feel at home when thinking of the future.

simon17

Can you give an example of a "left-field" thought that you've found athiests unwilling to consider?

20

An argument against atheism: It's hopeless

by simon17 in

i hear this critique against atheism a lot.

that its simply a hopeless way to live one's life.

believers give this argument, not passionately, but almost desicively, as if clearly a outlook they don't want for life is a wrong outlook.. is there anything you can do to reason with such ones?

simon17

I hear this critique against atheism a lot. That its simply a hopeless way to live one's life. Believers give this argument, not passionately, but almost desicively, as if CLEARLY a outlook they don't want for life is a wrong outlook.

Is there anything you can do to reason with such ones? I think religion tends to do this: to blind people to what they want to believe so strongly that the psychological fact that a belief is what they want quietly becomes one of the strongest proofs of it.

I find my situation with theists is like watching someone buy lottery tickets every day. Day after day, throwing money away. And finally I confront them and show all the rational as to why the odds of winning the lottery are so incredibly small, that its a waste of time. But they look at me and say "why are you being so hopeless? This ticket may very well be the winner! I'm so excited that this might be it. The start of the great tribulation is going to start with Japan. With Libya. With Egypt. With the financial crises." Its almost as if the hopefulness keeps them going and the failures only meld into the next hopeful lottery ticket, building on one another instead of logically undermining the whole misguided outlook.

Life is a wonderful thing. The end may be hopeless, but that doesn't make it wrong. Its hard to convey that to someone who NEEDS to hope for something better.

116

Water Canopy? Huh?

by Mr. Falcon in

*** w80 11/15 p. 23 par.

4 jehovah of armies to the rescue!

the fact that today we do not have a vast water canopy suspended high up in space and all around our globe and thus blocking direct sunlight, moonlight and starlight is because jehovah saw what was going on down here upon his terrestrial footstool and took action.

simon17

Falcon,

They believe the creative "days" to not be literal days but instead by "possibly thousands of years" each, which of course is scientifically maddening in terms of the scale but technically correct.

So they are in the difficult position of having to denounce young earth creationists as scientifically ignorant while eschewing the entire scientific cummunity with the other hand in railing on evolution, carbon dating, etc while supporting a global deluge 4000 years ago!

34

Did Jehovah really prove his sovreignty?

by keyser soze in

before the issue of sovreignty came up between god and satan, humans were in a perfect state.

then adam and eve sinned, and satan challenged god's right to rule.

god took satan up, and allowed humans a chance to prove that they could govern themselves, independent from him.. but first he inflicted them with sickness, death and imperfection.

simon17

But first he inflicted them with sickness, death and imperfection. In essence, he stacked the deck against humanity so that they would fail. Couldn't humans have fared better in living apart from God had he left them in the state in which he created them?

No, its far worse than you just described!

* Even with the deck stacked against them, humans were pulling together at Babel and accomplishing things so God intervened just to mess them up and make them speak different languages leading to nations and nationalism, one of the most devisive thigns in the history of human kind. Now THAT is stacking the deck!

* Even with all this, 99.9% of the world is choosing to not live by God's standards and is instead choosing their own freedom to rule. But it doesn't matter, that is still "proof" that God's way is better even though it has NEVER BEEN TRIED or confirmed by any subject!

* After 1000 years of God's rulership, the number who choose independence from him is still "as the number of the sands of the sea." So really the vote is in, and humans want to rule themselves. But, since thats the "wrong answer", God destroys them.

Think about the absolute ridiculousness of this. Seriously, its astounding. Who actually is the ones who decide the challenge of who is best to rule? In the end: its God! So why couldn't he have done that right at the beginning and skipped the 6000 years of suffering part?

34

Did Jehovah really prove his sovreignty?

by keyser soze in

before the issue of sovreignty came up between god and satan, humans were in a perfect state.

then adam and eve sinned, and satan challenged god's right to rule.

god took satan up, and allowed humans a chance to prove that they could govern themselves, independent from him.. but first he inflicted them with sickness, death and imperfection.

simon17

God does not have "prove" his sovereignty to anyone. He is Sovereign over all because he created all things and because of him we live, breath and exist. Peace, Lilly

Well then what is all this suffering for? If he didn't have to prove his sovereignty then he could have just say "Adam and Even messed up. They get destroyed along with Satan. We all agree I'm the boss and that what I do is the right thing to do."

Done.

You NEED the sovereignty proof concept to explain suffering in any sort of realistic way. But then that is only really to confuse you from the fact that it still makes no sense whatsoever.

31

my story....

by losecontrol in

well i am new to this, and i must admit that at first i was very opposed to this site.

i grew up being a witness and was warned about looking into apostate things, which is exactly what this site would be that they are referring to.

i always tried to live my life the best that i could under the societys control, and never really got to have any life experiance at all.

simon17

Anyway, my wife has told me that she wants to get a seperation becasue she knows that her doing this will ruin my life and she dont want to do that, and i have recently expressed to her my concerns about the truth as well, but she thinks i am jsut saying that to save my marriage

LoseControl, sorry that you and your wife (and children) have been going through hard times. IT does sound like its time for an examination of what you believe and consequences of continuing or discontinuing those things. The part I quoted above concerns me though. Especially if you've confided in her some interest in leaving the religion, and she still is strongly pushing for seperation? That just doesn't sound right to me. Sometimes when there are problems in a relationship, its easier to not confront them by letting another (non)-issue do the work for you. I know because I've done that, and I've had it done to me. I'm not saying there's something wrong but I think its prudent to have a very deep hear-to-heart with your wife about how she feels about everything: her religion, her marriage, her mate, her family, her extended family, etc.