thanks for reading the 3-part series on the contradictory characterization of lot in genesis vs 2nd peter, analyzing genesis 19 and comparing it to 2nd peter 2. in the articles, i took a step-by-step approach to show how 2nd peter's declaring lot as "righteous" was exactly the opposite goal of the author of genesis, since the point of the story is how unrighteous lot was saved not due to his righteousness, but on behalf of his righteous uncle abraham (the star of the torah).. of course, the book of 2nd peter is widely acknowledged by nt scholars to be a fraudulent work, written under a pseudonymous (fake) name in order to 'patch up' some loose ends in the torah, likely to support then-blossoming doctines of christianity.
of particular interest to ex-jws is that one intent was to support the duty to warn others of the coming end of days, including the jw's beloved scripture, matt 28:19, that justifies their preaching work: "go thereforth and make disciples...." the only support for the claim that noah preached before the flood is found in 2nd peter, so it's a dubious claim.. in the latest article, i examine the flood account in genesis 6, showing how god had already condemned mankind even before he offered the covenant agreement to noah, so there's absolutely no reason for noah to be a "preacher of righteousness", as 2nd peter claims, since god's judgment had already been passed, and death sentence had been handed down.. .
http://awgue.weebly.com/genesis-vs-2nd-peter-noah-didnt-preach-bupkis.html.
I always assumed that Peter had access to other sources (ie. like Jude quoting from the Book of Enoch) from which he was retelling that story about Noah. I figured it was another indication of a different Bible canon back during that time.
So there are folks who say it's a fraud, Peter's letter(s)? Tell me more about how the entire Bible has been debunked...
--sd-7
my dad is currently attending a week long elders school.
dad is in his 70's and not in great health at the moment so this is adding to my anger that he is having to leave the house at 7am and doesn't return until 6pm and then has to lock himself away to study further in preparation for the next day.. he has also been told he is not to discuss anything about the school with other elders until they have all attended.
what are they learning about that isnt' already out there for all to read anyway.. they can't be learning more bible stuff as the bible is there to be read by the general public so i can only assume that its all top secret stuff that the rest of the congregation can't know about.
As much I don't much like elders, I'd still say they have good intentions with what they're doing and genuinely believe they're doing the right thing. I guess there are no particular surprises to me, hearing about what is said at 'elders' school'. I mean, the literature kind of lays out ideas from time to time that are clearly aimed at elders and how they should approach things.
Still, an interesting thread. Hmm.
--sd-7
page 20:.
the unwary may adopt the same view of theocratic arrangements.
they may be unwilling to go along with congregation procedures and may even complain about anything not to their liking.
Bible-based counsel? Using Watchtower reasoning, Joseph, Moses, Solomon, Daniel, Paul, Matthew, and Luke would be bad examples amongst 'God's people'. They were all well-educated, some of them educated by outside (non-Jewish) sources, even completely isolated from opportunities to engage in 'pure worship'. But no, that doesn't count for anything. Those guys were useless, self-seeking, glory-hoggin' bastards and weren't used by God to do anything! --sd-7
"in a similar way, at the beginning of the 20th century, there were a number of wrong expectations among true christians regarding the last days.
(2 tim.
3:1) for instance, in the year 1914, some thought that their being taken to heaven was imminent.
You know, maybe after all these "expectations", it might be a good idea not to "expect" anything the Watchtower predicts to actually happen.
But it's your fault that you don't have a choice but to believe what we tell you even if it's incorrect.
So, is this like a bizarre twist on the angel who went and fooled Ahab? It's all part of God's plan to fool you so that he can get rid of people that actually believe what he says...
As I'm sure has been said before, either by me or someone, JWs are trapped in a neverending losing game of "Simon Says".
--sd-7
anyone see that quote in the latest magazine?.
in full it says:.
"since the things are happening today that jesus told us about, we know that we are right at the very doorstep of the new world, the world to come.
I guess the WT needs to recycle their old material for the new converts...
Oh, yeah--they sometimes recycle word for word, even from decades-old material. Some of the June '00 Awake on propaganda is lifted word for word from a similar article in the late '70s.
--sd-7
when i first was appointed as an elder, i could not wait to be on a judicial committee.
it semed like most hearings invovled middle age men and women cheating on their mates because either they had married early or felt that were being neglected by their mate.
most times i felt i need to take a long hot shower after a hearing.. the toughest part was seeing these sweet young children grow up in "the truth", and now you are about to judge their future based on their repentance.
sosoconfused, Doubting Bro--thanks. I guess I overdid it there. I've actually had the chance to talk to or text at least a couple of ex-elders, and found them to be interesting, decent people. I'd probably have a root beer with them if I was the kind who went places and did things with humans other than my immediately family (some of whom are probably only still there because it's three squares and a roof they don't have to pay for). And I guess the fact is, even one or two of the elders on my JC seemed at least decent enough to come up and invite me to return to meetings when I came to pick up my family. I guess it's just...I've encountered more elders like the chairman of my JC than the compassionate, relatable kind. I'll get over it. --sd-7
the general public knows far too little about cults and mind control...and this is reflective of many ex-jws as well.
when i meet up with former jws, either in person or on the phone, im surprised that the majority have never read combating cult mind control.
of course, i am sure many former jws do not want to read yet another publication.
But Freedom of Mind is available on the Kindle, and I'm sure it has the same basic info. I think that ought to be enough. --sd-7
were you one of the witnesses that tattled and tried to find people doing "wrong"?.
or did you ever tattle on someone and regretted it later?
would you take it back?.
No. Even as a full believer, I did not agree with the idea of spying on each other or ratting each other out. I figured, if we're all Christians here, it's not up to me to handle confessing on someone's behalf--they need to own their own decisions. If a person committed a crime, that's one thing. But I see a JW painting a church or eating a birthday cake, I'm just going to pretend I didn't see it....
--sd-7
the general public knows far too little about cults and mind control...and this is reflective of many ex-jws as well.
when i meet up with former jws, either in person or on the phone, im surprised that the majority have never read combating cult mind control.
of course, i am sure many former jws do not want to read yet another publication.
I won’t name names, because I’m not at liberty to say. But a member of this forum, who was awakened to TTATT, whose posts I enjoyed, succumbed to the intense emotional blackmail from family, and is proclaiming he was wrong and diving back into the Org. He has begun shunning as well.
Wow. I know the pull can be powerful, wanting to connect with family. It can be torture to have the world so upside down. But after having personally experienced how painful shunning can be--both to people who are still on the inside and as someone who is on the outside--I couldn't do that again. I'd have to find ways around the Thought Police even if I went back. But I just hate what was and is being done to people so much that there's no way. After starting down this road it's hard to imagine not being thorough enough to make sure the beast stays dead, you know what I mean? Knowledge--more and more reading and broadening your mind--is the only way. And even then it's still tough. Emotionally I still feel very vulnerable. So it does require a mental vigilance to leave and stay out.
--sd-7
you guessed it.... .
http://www.jw.org/download/?fileformat=pdf&issue=201304&output=html&pub=g&langwritten=e&option=trgchlzrqvnyvrxf&txtcmslang=e.
cedars.
'The beatings will continue until morale improves' sounds like the message here.
It's peculiar. Common sense would override in every other situation. If you were coming down the same street every day and got beat up by someone, even if they didn't leave any marks, you might decide, if you could, to just take a different route home, or maybe call the cops, or something else rational. But you come home and get beat every day, and the Watchtower's grand plan for you is wait until it becomes a death match, and THEN leave. (Guess they had to ban self-defense to avoid a scenario like the movie 'Enough', too...)
The fact that people will ignore even basic survival instincts on account of this literature is an indication of just how dangerous it really is.
--sd-7
