The wire article about this is found at "News and Events" on the All Forums part of this db. You're right TR, the Russians have been through enough without the Witnesses adding to their problems. However, I do believe in religious freedom; it's a shame the Watchtower doesn't.
---JAVA, counting time at the Coffee Shop
dayton daily news, saturday, february 24, 2001, p. 10a.
"world headlines" from wire reports:.
"moscow -- a moscow court on friday threw out a prosecutor's effort to ban jehovah's witnesses in the capital, a decision hailed as a strong move for religious tolerance.. applause and tears broke out amoung the crowd of about 50 people listening to the reading of the decision, which also called for the prosecutor's office to pay $650 to experts called in the case.. 'we are crying tears of happiness,' said a jehovah's witnesses member who did not give her name.
Dayton Daily News, Saturday, February 24, 2001, p. 10A
"World Headlines" from wire reports:
"MOSCOW -- A Moscow court on Friday threw out a prosecutor's effort to ban Jehovah's Witnesses in the capital, a decision hailed as a strong move for religious tolerance.
Applause and tears broke out amoung the crowd of about 50 people listening to the reading of the decision, which also called for the prosecutor's office to pay $650 to experts called in the case.
'We are crying tears of happiness,' said a Jehovah's Witnesses member who did not give her name. 'I lived through the period of when we were banned . . . I did not want to repeat it.'"
--END OF ARTICLE--
I wonder if the above crying JW will cry tears of joy when the Watchtower lifts its ban on material written by former Witnesses?
---JAVA, counting time at the Coffee Shop
the following is copied directly from the society's official website.
for any here who are familiar with the change in understanding of the 1914 generation, it may seem quite shocking.. the society put this information on their site *after* the change in understanding and have kept it there for the past five years!.
begin quote.
I wonder when the Tower will get back to the No Kids advice again?
"Today there is a great crowd of people who are confident that a destruction of even greater magnitude is now imminent. The evidence is that Jesus' prophecy will shortly have a major fulfilment, upon this entire system of things. This has been a major factor in influencing many couples to decide not to have children at this time. They have chosen to remain childless so that they would be less encumbered to carry out the instructions of Jesus Christ to preach the good news of God's kingdom earth wide before the end of this system comes. - Matt.24:14." (Awake!, Nov. 8, 1974, p. 11)
"...mark the words of Jesus, which definitely seem to discourage the bearing of children immediately before or during Armageddon: "And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days - Matt. 24:19... It would therefore appear that there is no reasonable or Scriptural injunction to bring children into the world immediately before Armageddon, where we now are." (The Watcthower, Nov. 1, 1938, p. 324)
I think it was W C Fields who said, "A man who hates kids can't be all bad." Maybe the Witnesses had a Bible study with him!
---JAVA, counting time at the Coffee Shop
Edited by - JAVA on 23 February 2001 16:16:56
this is an email i just received.
i feel like posting the senders name and email, but i'll refrain for now.. you are a coward like all of you on that 'jw' board you cant say these things .
when we talk to you cause you dont want to hear the truth................you .
larc,
This whole evening has made me feel, well, kind of warm all over.
That's because you finally paid your Power & Light bill larc, and the company turned your heat back on.
I get e-mail like this all the time from JWs reading my HomePage. I always reply thanking them for taking the time to read my site, and sharing a little about themselves with me. (I know that's a cheap shot, but it makes me feel better after reading their nonsense.) I end by offering to remove anything from the site they can show is not true, with a posted apology. No one has taken me up on the offer after two years. Maybe I could throw in a copy of the elder's manual to sweeten the pot.
---JAVA, counting time at the Coffee Shop
i asked my therapist if it is possible for a patient to be re-traumatized during the course of treatment.
confronting memories over and over again.
painting mental images even more graphic to replace the vague ones i once had-is this a good thing?
Seven,
. My goal in therapy is to move on without all the baggage. I'm working on it.
That's a realistic goal, and I'm sure you're doing it, Seven. Others have already given some great suggestions, and I want to add a comment about moving on with our lives.
I believe many people exiting sects like the JWs have a difficult time moving on because living life as a Witness is a form of suspended animation of sorts. Folks usually go through the normal life cycles of change, but I think the mental processes of growth and change for JWs is stalled or delayed. Exiting the group doesn't necessarily mean we automatically switch into the "moving on" in life process. Sometimes it takes a little help to prime the process in order to get it going again. I think that's what you're doing Seven--good for you!
Other factors might also enter into the process. For example, treating the scars of physicial and/or mental abuse some carry requires extra effort for the client and a provider with the necessary skills. It's easy to become impatient with the treatment and healing process, but that doesn't mean progress is not being made. Nor does it mean treatment needs to be exceedingly long. Larc and trevor have experience in these matters beyond my training of working with college students. I know enough that makes me dangerous in the field of counseling, so I'll end by saying I'm in your corner, Seven. I'm sure you are moving on with life, but sometimes we become our own worst advocate, thereby becoming impatient with ourselves and the progress. That's normal; don't let it get you down.
---JAVA, counting time at the Coffee Shop
Edited by - JAVA on 23 February 2001 11:35:25
leaving the tower was easier for me when i stopped and contemplated what the future would hold if the jws were right after all.
everlasting life on earth under threat of death if like adam, eve the devil, the israelites in fact most of the human race, i made a mistake at any time.
to live in a world run by strict elders who have been elevated to princes seemed a worse fate than death.
Armageddon, the First Six Months
Week One:
Armageddon was a blood bath, and we’re still checking to see how many weaker ones made it. The War of all Wars was over in 2 days, and the surviving brothers and sisters are assembling at their Kingdom Halls. The birds are eating carcasses everywhere we look. I saw a flock of crows plucking the eyes out of a baby, and pray Jehovah removes that memory as I move forward in the New World.
Week Two:
Many brothers, sisters, and their children didn’t make it. Sister Smith was always kind to me, and the only person from the Kingdom Hall who looked after the children and me when I was ill last year. It was difficult seeing her bones piercing through the remains of her rotting flesh. Her arms were still holding what was left of her 2-year old son. She often missed meetings while caring for others, and her elderly parents. I feel awful letting her care for my children and me when I was ill. Perhaps those were the meetings she needed in order to survive Armageddon.
Month One:
The elders in our area are concerned that too many are sad about loosing loved ones. They’ve formed committees to search each of our homes looking for family pictures and other items that reminds us of family and friends who died. I though about hiding a picture of my son; he would have been 23-years old today, but left the Truth 3 years ago. Of course I didn’t talk with him when he married a Catholic, and they had a child. I wonder what my granddaughter looked like? I can see the wisdom in destroying family pictures because they cause me to question Jehovah’s Organization. I’ll burn them myself, why wait for the search committee?
Month Two:
There is little time to think about the past because of long work hours. Armageddon took its toll on most buildings, and the roads are littered with debris, wrecked cars and trucks. The elders formed work details so we can clear some roads for the elders to travel to different congregations, and in time, to Brooklyn. The poor elders are busy with duties and can’t help us with most of the physical work. Some of us didn’t think it would be like this in the New System, but the elders warned us not to think about that. They said the 12-hour work routines are necessary in order to prepare the earth for paradise. I used to think Jehovah was going to provide us with a paradise earth, but I’m sure I’ll appreciate paradise more if I keep working for it. Yesterday I nodded off during the nightly meeting; I hope that didn't set a bad example.
Month Six:
We made it to Brooklyn! When the elders got there the brothers at Brooklyn said everything was going as planned. The Society is working on a new manual for the elders with detailed instructions for the various work committees. In the mean time all open roads will only be used by the Society so they can dispense food in due season to the congregations. The Society also reclaimed all vehicles that were not destroyed for this grand purpose. One of the brothers in our work detail complained about not using the roads he cleared, but the elders lovingly transferred him to another work assignment. I’m not sure where he is assigned since leaving our congregation, but the Society sent one of their vehicles and took him to another location. Jehovah is so loving; this brother got to travel on one of the roads after all.
---JAVA, counting time at the Coffee Shop
Edited by - JAVA on 22 February 2001 21:45:10
two jw's knocked on my door peddling the watchtower and awake.
i was still in my satin pj's and had a tiara stuck on my head as i was playing make believe with my five year old.
i forgot i had it on, and they didn't seem to find that strange, lol.
RR,
I have been branded as a "evil slave class" member.
Yeah, I could tell you are of the "evil slave class" because of your beard!
---JAVA, counting time at the Coffee Shop
i have read with interest the discussions on this board and many good point have been well made, especially uncle bruce.
but over and over i keep thinking why do we need a god??.
are we such weak creatures who stand by and hope and yes i mean hope that there will be an end to injustice??
larc,
Rats, next time I'll wait a little longer before posting. Larc, have I ever told you what a smart guy you are?
---JAVA, counting time at the Coffee Shop
i have read with interest the discussions on this board and many good point have been well made, especially uncle bruce.
but over and over i keep thinking why do we need a god??.
are we such weak creatures who stand by and hope and yes i mean hope that there will be an end to injustice??
Uni girl (Wow--you know how to start a conversation; Welcome to the group),
Are we such weak creatures who stand by and hope and yes I mean hope that there will be an end to injustice?? I'm not just talking about war, famine etc I'm talking about the prejudices that run so deep within society, that are not addressed and thus people suffer.
I hate to disagree with TruthHurts (well...no, not really) but I think humans are as weak or strong as they want to be, with or without religion. There is nothing wrong with religion until it's taken seriously. When that happens, all hell breaks out.
Religion helps us come together and process what we can't prove. There is nothing weak or wrong with that unless we force others into believing what we can't prove in the first place. Also, religion typically reflects societal norms (good, bad, and the ugly), and is used to approve these norms. In many ways, religion is a reflection of who we are at a period in time. I don't see that as a weakness, but a mirror of sorts. We can't fully blame religion per se for unfairness, because unfairness happens until there are reasons to change. With or without religion.
As you pointed out, religion at its core is nothing more than a group of people with shared beliefs they can't prove. When said groups start taking themselves too seriously, demanding they have "the Truth" or their ism is the only way--that's weakness. On that basis, the Watchtower Society is a weakness, but the Watchtower Society is not a reflection of all religions. Some religions speak out against suffering and injustice. For example, some Quakers spoke out again slavery long before it became a political issue in the United States. Yes, prejudices run deep in society, and religion can act as a tool for or against it.
---JAVA, counting time at the Coffee Shop
Edited by - JAVA on 20 February 2001 15:36:16
hi folks.
what do you like about kingdom halls?.
i am not talking about the software i.e., the people, the pure language, the music, the smell of lavender as the toilet door swings to, or the obedient rustle of bible pages.
philo,
Welcome to the group!
They have no windows and very low ceilings
The windows (or lack thereof) was the first thing I thought of when reading the opening post. We had windows in the old KH I attended, but they had bars covering the outside, thus I felt like I was in jail. Of course that should have told me something, but that's another topic.
I believe most of the newer KHs are built without windows for various reasons. I think this says a lot about the mind set of the JW community. The JWs think they are the only religion on earth who are being persecuted, so the newer structures are windowless. Gee, I wonder if any are surrounded by crocodile-infested water and a drawbridge?
I attended a Unitarian Church built in 1913 a few years ago that had wonderful stained-glass windows. The windows didn't have the usual biblical themes, but the old stained-glass windows were awesome with the sun shining through them! I've never been to a KH that radiated a spiritual setting, much less windows pleasing to the eye. The topic of this thread is "What do you like about K Halls?" Come to think about it--NOTHING!
PS: I read trevor's post after sending the above. I guess there are a few things to like about KHs after all.
---JAVA, counting time at the Coffee Shop
Edited by - JAVA on 20 February 2001 12:58:48
