picture of rutherford and his cadillac!--by request!
request from researcher: there was a photo of some cars in the 2003 awake that showed rutherford standing by his cadillac.
could you post a link for that if you have it?
Hmmm. This seems rather suspicious to me. I wonder if it's not some secretive Freemasonry subliminal connection? Russell and Rutherford were both reportedly Freemasons or connected with those secret societies, though I'm not aware that the Ford Corportation was. Who knows what else was going on. The WTS and Freemasons are big on subliminal messages and art displayed "in plain sight."
JCanon
my father is planning to sell his home in abbotsford, and my sister has been helping him clean out the library.
dad has quite a few bound volumes he no longer has use for, and was going to donate them to a local university, but i thought they might be worth something on the open market.. i was thinking of listing them on e-bay, but i've never listed anything on there before, and was wondering how difficult it was to sell, as i don't have a lot of time on my hands to monitor the site.. anyways this is what he has........ .
awake.........1948,49,50,52 &(1955 x 2).......1956, 57,58, 59, 61, 62, 63 (1964 x2) 1965, 66,67,68,69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77 78, 79, 80, 1981, (1982 x2) 1983, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93............ index for awake volumes........each year 1930-1985.......3 copies of 1985 index for watchtower voulmes 1930-1961 1961-1965 1966-1970 1971-1975 1976-1980 watchtower volumes.............1950, 51, (1952 x2).........1954, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61 (1962x2)....(1963 x 2)...........1964.....(1965x2).....1966 x2...............1967, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73,74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81 1982 x2.........1983, 84, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, any suggestions?
The WT CD Library is a very hot item for outsiders. They were selling at E-bay for as high as $65 at one point. I see a few going up for auction recently but haven't kept up. Of course, the WTS explicitly forbids the distribution of the CD Rom outisde of the WTS.
If you are going to sell on E-Bay what I suggest is that you go there first and see who else is selling what. That will give you a good indicator what is being offered and what is selling. I think the older Awake! are rare and not included on the CD ROM for some reason.
I also noticed that some sell an entire collection in one block. That saves on shipping also. So I wouldn't split them up at first if I were you. Plus I think if they are not in a hurry to get them, you can get a fairly cheap book and informational materials postal rage, but you'll have to check it out. In the US there is a bulk rate box for around $8 that I believe you can fit perhaps up to 4 bound volumes in.
My other suggestion would be to check with some of the people who offer the materials, like used book Christian book stores. But don't expect too much. The CD Rom makes the volumes obsolete with the exception that you don't get the graphics with the CD ROM.
The upside is that some newer brothers who are really studious and want to build up their library or may want them, so I'd defiitely try putting them on E-Bay for a while to see what happens.
Have fun!
JC
http://www.godlessgeeks.com/links/godproof.htm.
wtb&ts follows #13 & #27 .
my favorites: #34, #50, #87, 284, and best of all #281 .
Unfortunately, God does choose to hide from the wicked old world for the most part, and sometimes I think that some have been granted a higher degree of perception or thinking reason so that nature seems to confirm for them absolutely there is a God and what he's like.
But one thing that those who understand Bible prophecy have now is the fulfillment of so many specific chronology prophecies. Some look down on chronology or unfortunately are influenced by BTG and lots of wrong chronology, but if you get past that then a huge source of not only belief in God but also the truth of the Bible comes from fulfilled prophecy. Like three different prophecies that all line up to the same year of the second coming.
The second coming is accompanied by the "sign of the son of man" appearing, which we have actual photograph of, and also some of us, like myself, have seen some supernatural things, such as the action and manipulation of events by holy spirit, identity of some materialized angels, who some of them have materialized and are pretending to be humans (why not?) and/or have seen Christ himself, or in my case Jehovah himself and Satan in some visions. Some will discount this as mental illness and it may be (except how do you explain the photos of the sign of the son of man?), but even so, for those persons of have been convinced of these things and that they are real, we can't address like others the doubts that there is no god based upon the lack of direct evidence by direct intervention in our personal lives, because we have that. It's an additional reference to our faith on a higher level.
So like me, my personal experience of talking to Jehovah personally seems real to me, even if it wasn't, so I have absolutely no doubt there is a god and thus all the anti-god propaganda and sneering and laughing of the pseudo-intellectuals means nothing. Instead, I'm the one that is laughing at them and shaking my head because they have been left out of the loop.
God's process is to show himself in direct ways, first to his own servants. Then in a global way to the world, as he will do at Armageddon, without much detail. It's not that the world would not have been warned or won't know Armageddon when they see it, but beyond that, this will be a time of "darkness" and "thick gloom" just as in Noah's day when the ice water canopy was being melted and the thick rain clouds formed there was darkness over the world for seven days. I guess God isn't that concerned about proving that much to the wicked after all.
But I suppose the main point I wanted to make is that it is very nice to be in a position to know for sure if there is a God or not, based upon personal experience. That has to be something special. And since it is truly real, no one can contradict it. They can just refuse to believe until Armageddon or until an angel appears to them personally, but that's about it. It's just those on the outside and those on the inside of that question.
JC
watch.
1973 july 15 p.7 "questions from readers.
when did the dinosuars become extinct?".
Noah would have had to store enough fresh water to last him, his family, and all the animals aboard for a year.The volume of water that would have been needed would have reduced the amount of space for the animals.
--VM44
I never throught about fresh water. However, probably Jehovah caused it to rain frequently enough to supply the fresh water needed. So fresh water needn't have been a problem. Interesting technical issue, though, I hadn't thought about before. JC
another topic gave me the idea to post this one.
i have always asked myself, why does the society not agree with the amount of time archeologists say dinosaurs and other species roamed the earth?
they agree the earth has existed for maybe billions of years.
their ignorant adoption of 7000 is based their false assumption that 6000 of human history plus 1000 year reign makes 7000 for the 7th day of creation...which ASSumes that God knew Adam was going to fail before the 7th day began--which the society maintains God did not know ahead of time...if God intended humans to live forever, he would not have made each creative day so short.
I don't think that's the case. I think God just keeps a weekly pattern of time. After Adam and Eve sinned he decided to allow for man and Satan to try out their rule over time for 6000 years, God reserving 1000 years for Christ's rule as contrast. This would not have been in anticipation for Adam and Eve sinning. The basis for the 7000 years is Biblical. One reference being that a day to Jehovah is 1000 years and the over in Hebrews where Paul speaks of a second rest day within the Creative Rest day. That rest day presumed to be the sabbath 1000 year rule of Christ, it would make the creative days 7000 years long each. Of note, the jubilees occur every 7 years with a special 50th jubilee year. With seven days of 7K each, the millennium will be the 49th year sabbath followed by the jubilee, the first 1000-year long day of the Second Creative Week and the beginning of the 8th Creative Day. Perhaps the first brand new creation God will make will be transforming the 1,440,000 (144K are 10% natural Jews, the root of the entire anointed olive tree)(Isa. 6:13). Revelation does mention after Judgment Day is over that God is "making all things new." Thus Satan will have been destroyed and all humans approved for everlasting life going into the new Creative Week. Of note, JW chronology for various reasons is 127 years off from the true original timeline, being 127 years too early, which made the 1975 date for 6000 years of man's existence also 127 years too early. Considering all adjustments as discussed here elsewhere, 2011 would be the "equivalent" date, with some flexibility that would reflect what 1975 was about, that is, when the kingdom might be expected to be in place. That doesn't leave us much time, but then again, the one-world government the Bible prophesied about is clearly in place, the UN is stronger than ever and I think it's conceivable that the US will have a political meltdown over the issues it is struggling over and all the information coming in constantly about "Illuminati" interference in world affairs, etc. So exciting times!! I'm sure one reason why JWs won't correct their 6000-year theory to a better chronology is because the 1914 dating will also have to be scratched for the most part. They probably figure that would be so devastating to so many its not worth telling the truth, so true to form of the evil slave that they are, they keep up the lies. This new push of focus to getting true understanding through God's organization proves it is feeling the pressure of thinking witnesses and perhaps the net exposures of so many speaking out, so they are becoming more controlling as a cult than ever. JC
another topic gave me the idea to post this one.
i have always asked myself, why does the society not agree with the amount of time archeologists say dinosaurs and other species roamed the earth?
they agree the earth has existed for maybe billions of years.
The implied Bible chronology that the Creative Days were only 7,000 years each is based on the concept that the millennium, the 1000-year reign of Christ would fulfill the Great Sabbath within the last Creative Day. I agree with this assessment.
However, when it comes to dinosaurs and how old they are, science can't really determine that. For instance, for non-fossilized dinosuar bones they found which they try to test with RC14 dating, the dating doesn't go back past 30,000-50,000 years. So what they tested they got results within the range of the Bible's timeline. If we presume the dinosaurs are the "great sea monsters" mentioned in the Bible that were created on the 5th day, then they would max out at around 20,000 years. Some of the RC14 testing has only reached back to 9,000 years.
21 And God proceeded to create the great sea monsters and every living soul that moves about, which the waters swarmed forth according to their kinds, and every winged flying creature according to its kind. And God got to see that [it was] good. 22 With that God blessed them, saying: “Be fruitful and become many and fill the waters in the sea basins, and let the flying creatures become many in the earth.” 23 And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a fifth day.
But this is a huge controversy about the dating as noted below:
"Finding this fossil wood in Jurassic limestone suggested the possibility of testing for the presence of radiocarbon ( 14 C). Most geologists, however, would not bother with such tests because they wouldn’t expect any 14 C to still exist. With a half-life of only 5,570 years, no 14 C should be detectable after about 50,000 years, let alone millions of years, even with the most sensitive equipment. So this fossilised wood from the Marlstone Rock Bed of Jurassic ‘age’ had potential for testing the validity of the fossil dating technique underpinning modern geology."
Here's the entire article: http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v22/i2/geology.asp
So while they are dating things millions of years, there are contradictions and challenges and so it is simply not absolute at this point. Some lava flows, for instance, not more than 50 years old gave by argon gas dates back to millions of years, but that's because of the abnormal concentration of the gas in the lava flow, an anomaly. Thus who knows what was going on in the atmosphere way back when which results in some of these exaggerated dates. And since RC14 is not useful past a certain period less than 50,000 years, that method cannot be used for dating non-fossilized dinosaur bones.
Apparently, one argument is that zero carbon should be found in any dinosaur bones if they are older than 50,000 years, yet some has been found in nonfossilized bone. How do you get around that?
In the meantime, in case you haven't seen, there's a group called AiG which deals with all the arguments. Because everything is inconclusive, it's not in a position to adequately challenge the Bible's timeline at this time.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/
You might want to check out the website regarding specific dating issues.
My position is that for all the millions of years the scientists claim, plus claiming there was no global flood, "written history" and all kinds of advanced astronomy, medicine and archicture suddenly appear in abundance but only going back about 4,000 years! Which aligns with the Bible's timeline for development after the flood. Why was man so backward for millions of years and then suddenly became so smart in the last 4000 years? Further, those ancient Egyptians and Sumerians are clearly not ape men but men just like us today.
So I just dismiss these dating issues from science, which only pertains to living materials, as inconclusive, especially when hardcore archaeology doesn't date past 4000-5000 years. Since the dating claims of millions of years is solely based upon a narrow range of scientific study, something we can't double-check ourselves, people hold on to their belief in the Bible and it's timeline.
JC
information on barbour updated and enlarged is back online.
i remain impressed by this research.
he seems to remove the material fairly quickly after comments and edits.
Thanks for this post. It's eerie reading this and thinking about how the Bible Students basically picked up the ball.
"Baxter derived the date from the same source as had Barbour. In a lengthy footnote Baxter points to Bowen’s chronology, saying: "The nativity of Christ was about the year 4128, anno mundi, which added to 1872, makes up the 6000 years." As did most prophetic students of the era, he expected the seventh millennium to correspond to Christ’s millennial rule. Any similarity between Baxter and Barbour is due to same source material. The contention that Barbour borrowed from Baxter is fanciful."
Still, it is interesting how the chronology in the Bible just stands out for some and how much of a common perception there is for all this. I guess some cults are just into the numbers!
Thanks! This was interesting historically an in other ways.
JC
WOW!!!!!!!!!
That is powerful. There are 3 parts to watch. This is, I think, one of the best tesimonies I've ever watched.
ABSOLUTELY! My thoughts exactly. Powerful and well expressed! I soooo related to her every word. She doesn't just report on her bad experience but expresses the hypocrisy of it all, which I so identify with. If this is such a true religion, then why can't we ask certain questions? We can, as long as it's not a question they don't have an answer to. They are such a mind-control cult, but also phonies! Everybody who leaves should see this.
Plus I think what hits home for some of us is, that this was someone RAISED in the truth. Perhaps that is why we are relating to it so much. It's that child in us that died that's crying out. My family is totally dysfunctional now because of a lot of this extremism.
Unfortunately, this basically applies to everybody in that organization, some who don't understand they are being controlled. Some love it because this is so much better than what they have otherwise. But for others who need more individuality, as in this case, it's just a painful process that gets to the pointing of breaking and you just have to free yourself.
You know what else? I think a LOT of people are ready to leave. They see all this clearly. But like some say, "Where else can you go?" They don't see any other religions. They clearly acknowledge the imperfections but they don't see anything better. The witnesses have "love among themselves", it has been a fine example of race relations, especially. If you like the Bible and have strong religious interests, are pro-Creation, etc. then this is a strong religion in those regards. But still it's a guilded cage.
What's great about this video also I think, besides being well-articulated, was that it was just HONEST. It's a wonderful religion until you try to get out and then it becomes the monstrous mind-controlling cult that stifles you...
JCanon
the wt always put a lot of importance on the subject that jesus was not born the 25 of dec. now my question is why is there two different stories in the bible about jesus birth?
in luke 2 there is one story and in matthew there is an other.
in luke it says that jesus was born during a census when quirinius was governing syria but in matthew it says that he was born when herod the great was still alive.
JC, you should put a groundhog coming out of that hole. Or how about an eyeball? That would be gnarly!
YES, I'm afraid I do need to change my avatar. It's a GIF I saw of the four phases of the moon that I thought was rather classic and neat, but I don't have the program to run it and it just turned out as the new moon. I'll change it in a few days so this post makes sense.!!! tee hee. Probably to this: 
But that might not work either....??? Cheers, LC
the wt always put a lot of importance on the subject that jesus was not born the 25 of dec. now my question is why is there two different stories in the bible about jesus birth?
in luke 2 there is one story and in matthew there is an other.
in luke it says that jesus was born during a census when quirinius was governing syria but in matthew it says that he was born when herod the great was still alive.
OK it's well established that Christendom has the actual date wrong why doesn't God send a message by virtue of his holly spirit to correct the situation
As the Bible says at the time Christ arrives there will be a period of spiritual darkness in the world and among God's own people. This is the darkening of the sun and moon and stars that are mentioned "immediately after the tribulation of those days, meaning after the Holocaust." This means that God can give the insight to his faithful followers, which he has. This is the scenario in the Bible where Lazarus who represents those approved by the Father have all the knowledge and the Rich Man, the evil slave who was entrusted with feeding the sheep but who ultimately failed in the end, being too concerned about building more Kingdom Halls (i.e. bigger storehouses) is in spiritual torment because of all the false teachings. The Rich Man's tongue is dried out, he has no more fluent truths to give out to the organization. He hopes Lazarus will give him some of his new truths but that doesn't happen.
And secondly why was the son of God born in a dirty manger/barn with allot of donkey and goat shit all over the place, doesn't sound very sanitary.
It wasn't a dirty manger. Remember the sheep were out in the fields and pastures this time of the year, so the stables or booths were nice and clean. Plus, who is to say it wasn't a brand new stable that had never been used before?
You think the son of God would be born in a cleaner and better environment, like in a nice house on a Ikea mattress, something like that
The circumstance of Christ's birthplace is significant. The Festival of Booths, where the people make booths to stay in instead of the home represents the time when God comes to dwell with mankind in the form of his representative, his son. But he doesn't come into their homes but dwells with them in booths, the kind that they make for their animals. Thus when Christ arrives at the fist and second coming, he does so outside the formal arrangement of the temple or the organization. He's not a high priest or a king. Even at the second coming when he does come to be king-priest, it's not as an active elder or overseer in the congregation, but outside the congregation. So it was significant to symbolize this by having Jesus be born outside the home and then placed in a temporary booth shelter. JC
