I don't think so. The shakers were more liberal in some ways, in particular the role of women( they regarded men and women as equals). However, they were flat out opposed to sex. And never had the numbers that JW's have.
Posts by JeffT
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22The fading of a well known American religion. Could this happen someday to Jehovah's Witnesses?
by Balaamsass2 innew york times 9/5/24.
" there are only two shakers left.
they've still got utopia in their sites.. "by jordan kisner.
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JeffT
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20
Warwick sits on $70 billion?
by LaFrancia in70,000 real estate properties at an average value of $100,000 and perhaps we can say (no one knows for sure) that warwick sits on $70 billion in real estate value.
in the video (deleted by jwborg but available on the avoid.jw website) of the 2018-19 coordinators' committee report (english) shown to all congregations at the mid-week meeting, we find several curious and interesting indications:.
- at minute 6.52 seconds you see some data .
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JeffT
Some of you may recall that I'm a retired accountant, having done most of my work in real estate investment.
A few years ago I took a stab at valuing Watchtower assets. I gave up once I realized how often Bethel lies on financial reports of every kind to everyone. The only accurate numbers are from government records of Property Sales.
This comment is spot on. The publicly available financial statements are murky at best. The U S (probably where most of the money is) is very hesitant to go after religious organizations. It has happened in cases where it is blindingly obvious that something is wrong, but I won't hold my breath waiting for it.
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Warwick sits on $70 billion?
by LaFrancia in70,000 real estate properties at an average value of $100,000 and perhaps we can say (no one knows for sure) that warwick sits on $70 billion in real estate value.
in the video (deleted by jwborg but available on the avoid.jw website) of the 2018-19 coordinators' committee report (english) shown to all congregations at the mid-week meeting, we find several curious and interesting indications:.
- at minute 6.52 seconds you see some data .
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JeffT
You're off a zero. That is seven billion, still a big number for a religion. I did a rough analysis on this a few years ago and posted it here, I'm too lazy to look for it just now, but I came up with a total of about four billion in the U S alone.
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Watchtower in the NEWS. DUBLIN: "Former top UBS executive joins Jehovah’s Witnesses’ new Ireland-based asset venture"
by Balaamsass2 inslate of industry heavy-hitters sign up to management company run by religious group".
slate of industry heavy-hitters sign up to management company run by religious group.
28 aug 2024. john mulligan.
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JeffT
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like they rounded up a few members that have financial background and will use them to run this asset management company.
In my opinion anybody capable of doing that is too smart (or should be) to get mixed up with the Watchtower. This certainly is not against the law, it may or may not be unethical depending on what they do with it. It is, however, a repudiation of what they've been teaching for the last hundred years or so; and a big slap in the face to those that, acting on those teachings, put off any personal financial management.
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The World Health Organization Prostitude
by raymond frantz inhttps://youtu.be/ksw9ujgm2i0?si=ruesgp-s6evmpdik.
as a second pandemic is now in the horizon mpox or monkey pox as they like to call it, it is important to scrutize the advise the governing body provided last time around with covid and how they sided 100% with the governents and their medical directives and lockdowns and how they imposed one-sided narrative in congregations around the world even threatening elders who refused to obey their direction....
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JeffT
"In the long run, deaths = births.
-- Robert A. Heinlein
I don't see the purpose in manufacturing things to worry about, there's enough trouble to go around. I'm 73 and struggling with an age related neurological disorder. My advice; relax, enjoy the ride when possible, and don't sweat stuff.
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27
MANY DIFFICULT YEARS AHEAD : PER CHRISTENSEN
by raymond frantz inhttps://youtu.be/jsmbtv4nafi?si=ezj0dnudyjls4knc.
there was a time they preached the great tribulation was a short period of time between the fall of babylon and jesus coming back to save them, now they realize there are difficult years ahead of us, watch this latest morning worship video by per christensen on this subject .
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JeffT
I'm a retired accountant and I can't keep up with the changes.
If I could go back in time and drag my 1975 era self to the present he would not recognize the religion.
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15
Crisis of Conscience available for free on Audible
by nicolaou ini'm unclear on how this has been achieved or if permissions have been given.
presumably, audible (part of amazon) have their own procedures to ensure legality, but here it is nonetheless;.
listen to crisis of conscience - raymond franz by crisis of conscience - raymond franz on audible.
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JeffT
Balaamsass2
I've told this story here more than once, but it fits in here.
In the spring of 1988 my wife and I were struggling with our relationship with the Watchtower - without discussing it with each other at all. We were both terrified that the other would find out we were no longer believers. I was doing research at the Seattle public library on my lunch breaks, she was going to Christian books stores and researching there. I ending up buying a copy of CofC and hiding under by side of the bed.
So on this particular Sunday morning neither of us felt like going to meeting (cough cough I think I'm getting a bug). As I'm drinking my coffee I look up and see Mrs. T coming down the hall with CofC in her hand. Just about the time I expected her to jump on me about it, she grinned held up a second copy of the book and said "this one's mine".
We spent the next year researching everything that came out of the Watchtower and DA'd in March 1989. I look back on that event and my thought now is: WTF kind of religion makes husbands and wives hid their books from each other.
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64
Ages of each user here?
by ukpimo ini'm interested to know the age demographics here.
it must be significantly different to other exjw forums.
it would be a damning report for watchtower if most of us appear to have left for decades.. you don't have to mention your exact age, you could always say "in my 50s".. i am in my 70s.
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JeffT
I'm 73 I converted during the peak of the 1975 hype, in my twenties. Left in 1989.
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Celebrities Who Hate Jw's?
by Ron.W. indo you recall any?.
i was told that john denver hated jw's with a vengeance - any truth in that?.
also, annie lennox - i was told before a concert she asked any jw's present to leave?.
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JeffT
Two rumors about Celebrities and JW's.
1) {insert name of celebrity} hates JW's at their concerts they start by asking all JW's to leave.
2 {insert name of celebrity} is a JW. They were baptized at the {insert name of convention}, they go out in service with {insert name of congregation}. As soon as they finish contract requirements they will quit {whatever they do} and pioneer full time.
There have been a few that #2 applies to, but not many and certainly not equal to the number of rumors.
Over the years I've been to many concerts (including John Denver) and I've never hears such an announcement. I think most celebreties are smart enough not to piss off their fans.
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Leaked Info: Watchtower Received $497 Million From One Country (Britain) In Last Six Years! [Must Watch!]
by Golden4Altar inleaked info:watchtower received $497 million from one country (britain) in last six years!
[must watch!].
this video was just released with documented proof, see this link: https://jehovahstruth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=187#p187.
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JeffT
Retired accountant here
So now tell me again how a $2 million USD settlement here, or a $5 million USD settlement there, for CSA payouts is going to "bring down" the WatchTower?
I've been trying to argue this point for years. Most companies have a line item in their budgets for legal costs. It's just part of doing business, the Watchtower is no different.