Posts by UnDisfellowshipped

13

WATCHTOWER'S Alternative Military Service CHANGES

by UnDisfellowshipped in

jw
friends

the watchtower reprints, april 15th, 1903 (when russell was president), page 3,180:.

the watch tower september 1st 1915 issue [page 5,755 of the watchtower reprints 1915] (when russell was president).

the watch tower july 15th 1916 issue [page 5,929 of the watchtower reprints 1916] (when russell was president):.

UnDisfellowshipped

JT said:

YOu are a sick Puppy- how dare you bring out this information for all to see the flip and the flop of the Boys in Writing- I love it

Thanks JT and I'm glad that I can help people by Posting these Quotes that I've gathered from all over the Net ( http://Quotes.JehovahsWitnesses.com being the main source).

stichione said:

This is a perfect example of how the Society flip-flops on doctrinal issues. Isn't it ironic how they encourage the Dubs to do deep research into the older publications?

Yes, it is VERY IRONIC. In fact, it's almost like they are DARING you to find out the REAL TRUTH about them but they figure that no one ever looks up the old publications, either that, or maybe someone that was writing that Article wanted the Witnesses to go back through the older Publications and find the REAL TRUTH, perhaps.

Larry said:

Now you struck a nerve! This was one of the first flip flop issues that caught my attention, even before I started visting 'apostate' web sites. I sincerely kept asking folks, those same questions -
"How many people DIED because of this POLICY?
How many people were THROWN IN JAIL because of this POLICY?
How many people are STILL IN JAIL because of this POLICY?"
Now to mention, where's the apology?
Everybody just told me, 'leave it in jah's hands.' I knew right there that something was wrong.
I love the 'Worship Bk' quote (1983 Edition), Page 167: "An examination of the historical facts shows that not only have Jehovah's Witnesses refused to put on military uniforms and take up arms but, during the past half century and more, they have also declined to do noncombatant service or to accept other work assignments as a substitute for military service. Why? Because they have studied God's requirements and then made a personal, conscientious decision."
Don't sleep on this issue folks, This ones a biggie - Thanks for the reminders UnD.
Peace - LL

You are so very correct Larry! Back in the 1998 Article, the Society blamed the individual Witnesses and even blamed JEHOVAH, but they NEVER admitted that it was actually the Society's fault, and they NEVER apologized!

This was the first Article that really got me wondering and doubting that God was backing this kind of an Organization, so then I started checking out the Internet -- and BAM I found out about everything.

This is indeed a HUGE SUBJECT that may help set people FREE!

DJ said:

I recently met a sweet man who was sent to prison during WW2. He spent 5 years there!!! When he got out of prison he could not find work because he was a convicted felon! He is a member on this board but very rarely comes. He lives in Alabama and he knows Ray Franz. He never had any children because the end was coming!!! He is now a Christian and a good friend to me..............dj

That is so sad to see what the Watchtower Society did to that man, along with hundreds and thousands of others. But I am so happy to hear that he is now FREE and has found Jesus Christ, who will never let him down!

jwsons said:

The WacoTower and Dark Society doesn't care how many died, how many in jails or how many suffered because according to her, it's God's fault. You don't believe it ? Open the Watchtower August 15, 1998 again , what can you look in the picture's caption on page 16 ? Even if you lost your relatives, God never forget them. It's God, not WacoTower made them died.
jwsons

Yes, it is so very horrible that the Society will even BLAME GOD for their own EVIL instead of apologizing. Thanks for your information and your Link.

(I hope more people will comment on this Thread soon).

Edited by - UnDisfellowshipped on 14 September 2002 7:2:48

29

The Watchtower vs. The Bible

by UnDisfellowshipped in

here is a list of contradictions between what the watchtower society says and what the bible says:.

the watchtower says that judas iscariot left the lord's evening meal (memorial) before jesus instituted the new covenant and passed the wine and bread.. what does the bible say?:.

luke 22:13: they went, found things as he had told them, and they prepared the passover.

UnDisfellowshipped

Augustine said:

The belief that Judas left Jesus and the other 11 disciples before the institution of the new covenant has been the "traditional" interpretation by most Church Fathers (and conservative commentators). The following is one modern example by a conservative, Evangelical scholar:
"21. 'But look! The hand of the man who is betraying me is with me on the table.' That in all probablility what is here recorded took place before the institution of the Lord's Supper is confirmed by the following facts:
a. In the somewhat more chronologically arranged Synoptics...b. In John's parallel report concerning the exposure of the traitor, Jesus leaves the upper room immediately after Jesus told him, "What you are doing, do it faster' (John 13:21-30)..." (William Hendriksen, "The Gospel of Luke", p. 964)
Aug

Thank You for your informative Post Aug!

I believe the Watchtower may actually have this one correct.

clash_city_rockers said:

On the issue of salvation UD, you should do a study of the WT vs the Book of Romans, well lets make it the whole bible.
Well the WT tower does not have an infusion of grace theology like Rome, they do contend that the grace of God alone is insufficient to save.
You will see that the first nine chapters of Romans goes directly against WT soteriology (doctrine of salvation)..
You see the WT is an eclectic mix of Arianism, Socinianism, Arminianism, 19th Centery revivalism, 19th Centery Adventist movement, Sentementalism of Romantism, and a slight mix of dispensationalism (20th Centery evangellical error)
go here http://www.xworld.org/DR/
this posting was sponcered by John Murry
part of the equal time campain,
jr

Thanks for your Post jr!

You are most definitely correct, the Watchtower teaches that you are saved because of YOUR OWN WORKS, and they completely destroy the wonderful love of God, because they say that God's Grace and belief in Christ's Sacrifice is not enough to save you.

All the way throughout the entire New Testament (especially Romans and Galatians), you can see that WORKS will not save anyone!

pateaton said:

Hi Shelly, about Jesus as Michael, as Michael he was more powerful.
Strange as it may sound, Jesus the man had no power at all. All the mighty works were done by the spirit of Jehovah within him. This is explained in John 5.19. and John 3.34.
-Pat.

Thanks for your Post Pat!

Also, Thanks for bringing that out. Now it makes even less sense for Jesus to have been Michael, because in Heaven as Michael, Jesus would have had MORE POWER AND AUTHORITY to rebuke Satan than while on Earth!

Also, in the Book of Daniel, it says that Michael was only ONE OF THE CHIEF PRINCES IN HEAVEN (I am pretty sure that the ONLY-BEGOTTEN UNIQUE SON OF GOD would not have been called "One of the Chief Princes").

RevMalk said:

I have a few I'd like to mention:
Genesis 1:1-Revelation 22:21
That's all I have, anyone else?

LOL, you are RIGHT ON RevMalk, you said it all! The Society has corrupted or changed the meaning of just about each Scripture in the Bible -- all the good Prophecies apply to themselves, and all the bad Propechies apply to Christendom. They changed just about all Scriptures that said Jesus was God. They added words, took away words, even from the Book of Revelation (Adding the word "Jehovah" and taking away the words "The Lord").

It would take HUGE BOOKS to show all of the Contradictions between the Watchtower and the Bible.

But if anyone has any others, go ahead and Post them here.

25

Watchtower Has Statute of Limitation on SIN?

by Nanoprobe in

jw
friends

statement from the vicki boer trial .

lawyer colin stevenson argued that momm and his allies were confusing the spiritual law of the witnesses, which imposes a three-year statute of limitations on such things as abuse, with the law of the land, which requires immediate reporting.. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=36530&site=3.

was anyone aware of this?

UnDisfellowshipped

Hi Wednesday,

I know what you're saying.

There are good people and bad people in every Religion.

However, a Religion whose Leaders teach their Members to lie and cover-up their wickedness has absolutely NO blessing from Jehovah and Jesus.

From what I have read in the New Testament, and all of the things I have read about our Lord Jesus Christ, you do not need to be in a certain Church or Organization to be approved by God.

Here's an example: Just look at Barbara & Joe Anderson, Bill & Sheila Bowen, and Carl & Barbara Pandelo (The silentlambs who were on Dateline).

The Watchtower Disfellowshipped them for telling the truth, exposing wickedness, and trying to protect children from being raped.

Now, those silentlambs probably don't belong to any Religion, but I'm pretty sure that they still believe in God and Christ.

Do you think God will destroy them because they do not belong to a specific Religion, Church, Group, or Organization?

On the contrary, I believe that their reward will be great in the Kingdom of the Heavens!

Also, there is a Scripture that says even though EVERY PERSON may be a LIAR, God and Jesus CANNOT lie.

The things that God loves about a person are the following qualities:

* Whether or not the person loves God and Jesus with their whole mind, their whole soul, their whole spirit, and their whole heart (and whether or not a person believes in Jesus Christ as their Savior and that He died for their sins).

* Whether or not the person loves their neighbor (any fellow human) the same as they love their self.

* Whether or not a person has love even for their enemies (you should LOVE the PERSON who is wicked, but you should HATE the WICKEDNESS that the person has done).

There are also Scriptures which say that you should not put trust in humans, but rather put your trust in God and Jesus and God's Word the Bible.

I hope this helps.

My main point is that you do not need to belong to a certain Religion or Church or Organization for God to save you.

You simply have to have Faith in God and believe in Jesus and have LOVE for your friends and your enemies.

Edited by - UnDisfellowshipped on 14 September 2002 6:11:3

17

Don Adams out, Max Larson in - ??

by Nathan Natas in

jw
friends

the september 8, 2002 issue of awake!

lists m.h.

larson as president of the wtb&ts.. when did don adams get smart and move on?

UnDisfellowshipped

And, as Bill Bowen himself said in another Thread, he is working for K.A.O.S.! LOL

35

UPDATE ON VICKI BOER CHILD ABUSE TRIAL /SEPT 13

by hawkaw in

i am saddened to report barb anderson and dr. james penton will not testify at the trial.. however, even better.

penton wrote a lengthy letter and barb did a 30 page document as well.. both documents have been accepted into evidence by the judge and will be reviewed by the judge as part of her written decision.

this means the documents will not undergo cross-examination which is a good thing.. so if you ask me - a partial victory.. there is more happening that i cannot discuss that is going vicki's way - stunning stuff actually.

UnDisfellowshipped

Here is some more Information and Quotes on the "Matthew 18:15" Rule:

The Watchtower Society's own "Organized To Accomplish Our Ministry" Book (1983 and 1989 Editions) state that MATTHEW 18:15-17 ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT APPLY TO ANY SEXUAL MATTERS!

Here are the Quotes from the "Organized to Accomplish Our Ministry" Book which I found at http://watchtower.observer.org (I believe this Book is only given to Baptized Witnesses or Witnesses who are about to be Baptized, this Book's "Nickname" is the "Organization Book"):

Organized To Accomplish Our Ministry Book (1983 and 1989 Editions), Chapter 12, Under the Sub-Heading "NOT OVERLOOKING SERIOUS WRONGS":

When giving counsel, Jesus outlined some specific procedures for resolving problems of serious wrongdoing, such as fraud or slander, that arise between fellow Christians. Note the steps that he set out: "Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, [1] go lay bare his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, [2] take along with you one or two more, in order that at the mouth of two or three witnesses, every matter may be established. If he does not listen to them, [3] speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector." -Matt. 18:15-17.

...although serious, the offenses here discussed were limited in nature to such as could be settled between the individuals involved. This would not include such offenses as fornication, adultery, homosexuality, blasphemy, apostasy, idolatry and similar gross sins that should be reported to the elders and handled by them. When the Law covenant was in force, these sins required more than forgiveness from an offended individual. -1 Cor. 6:9, 10; Gal. 5:19-21.

...in view of the illustration that Jesus subsequently gave, as recorded in Matthew 18:23-35, the sins considered in Matthew 18:15-17 evidently were sins such as those involving financial or property matters--failure to make proper payment for something or some action involving a measure of fraud. The sin might damage one's reputation by actual slander. In these cases, if the offender recognized his wrong, expressed willingness to right it to the extent possible and sought forgiveness, the matter could be settled by the offended one's granting forgiveness. -Compare Matthew 5:25, 26.

HOWEVER, in the November 1st 1995 Watchtower Issue (which is on the Official Watchtower.org Website at this Address: http://www.watchtower.org/library/w/1995/11/1a/article_01.htm ), it states the following:

What if the sufferer decides that he wants to make an accusation? (It may also be necessary for the step outlined in this paragraph to be taken if the matter has become common knowledge in the congregation.) Then the two elders can advise him that, in line with the principle at Matthew 18:15, he should personally approach the accused about the matter. If the accuser is not emotionally able to do this face-to-face, it can be done by telephone or perhaps by writing a letter. In this way the one accused is given the opportunity to go on record before Jehovah with his answer to the accusation. He may even be able to present evidence that he could not have committed the abuse. Or perhaps the one accused will confess, and a reconciliation may be achieved. What a blessing that would be! If there is a confession, the two elders can handle matters further in accordance with Scriptural principles.

If the accusation is denied, the elders should explain to the accuser that nothing more can be done in a judicial way. And the congregation will continue to view the one accused as an innocent person. The Bible says that there must be two or three witnesses before judicial action can be taken. (2 Corinthians 13:1; 1 Timothy 5:19) Even if more than one person "remembers" abuse by the same individual, the nature of these recalls is just too uncertain to base judicial decisions on them without other supporting evidence. This does not mean that such "memories" are viewed as false (or that they are viewed as true). But Bible principles must be followed in establishing a matter judicially.

What if the one accused though denying the wrongdoing is really guilty? Does he "get away with it," as it were? Certainly not! The question of his guilt or innocence can be safely left in Jehovah's hands. "The sins of some men are publicly manifest, leading directly to judgment, but as for other men their sins also become manifest later." (1 Timothy 5:24; Romans 12:19; 14:12) The book of Proverbs says: "The expectation of the righteous ones is a rejoicing, but the very hope of the wicked ones will perish." "When a wicked man dies, his hope perishes." (Proverbs 10:28; 11:7) Ultimately, Jehovah God and Christ Jesus render everlasting judgment in justice. 1 Corinthians 4:5.

Edited by - UnDisfellowshipped on 14 September 2002 0:45:39

12

Q&A to choose your religion

by Quotes in

jw
friends

check it out:.

http://www.selectsmart.com/religion/.

here are my results, i was really surprised to see number 20!!!!!

UnDisfellowshipped

I can't believe JW's were 16th on mine! SHEEESH!

32

MAJOR NEWS- VICKI BOER TRIAL/Canadian Press/Sep 12

by hawkaw in

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/020912/6/owki.html

http://www.canoe.ca/nationalticker/canoe-wire.jehovah-lawsuit.html

thursday september 12 5:32 pm est .

UnDisfellowshipped

Thanks to EVERYONE for Posting this INFORMATION!!!!

The following is basically what the "Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock" (Secret Elders Rule Book) says about Rape:

Rape, for example, is porneia for the aggressor but not for the victim.

HOWEVER, that is MOST DEFINITELY NOT how the Watchtower Society views Rape (depending on which New Light they are in at the moment).

Here is a Link to a Thread with a HUGE LIST of Watchtower Quotes that say that RAPE is FORNICATION on the Victim's part if they do not SCREAM and/or FIGHT OFF the Rapist: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=35408&site=3

I cannot believe all of the UNBIBLICAL RULES the Watchtower has, they are WORSE THAN THE PHARISEES!

32

MAJOR NEWS- VICKI BOER TRIAL/Canadian Press/Sep 12

by hawkaw in

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/020912/6/owki.html

http://www.canoe.ca/nationalticker/canoe-wire.jehovah-lawsuit.html

thursday september 12 5:32 pm est .

UnDisfellowshipped

Now remember, Theodore Jaracz says "WE DO NOT GO BEYOND WHAT'S WRITTEN" (You just have to go through a Public Library and find out which Book it is written in right?)

32

MAJOR NEWS- VICKI BOER TRIAL/Canadian Press/Sep 12

by hawkaw in

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/020912/6/owki.html

http://www.canoe.ca/nationalticker/canoe-wire.jehovah-lawsuit.html

thursday september 12 5:32 pm est .

UnDisfellowshipped

I've read the Chapters of Secret Elders Book on the Internet that deal with Sins and Punishment, and I never saw any 3-Year Rule.

21

If You Didn"t PREACH, YOU were BLOODGUILTY

by minimus in

jw
friends

preaching, to a witness is the most important assignment that god gives.as a matter of fact, if you don't preach you are bloodguilty before god.if you don't cover the territory properly, you are bloodguilty.

if you didn't keep proper records, you were bloodguilty.if you didn't do not-at-homes, you were bloodguilty.if you didn't return to talk to a return visit within the week, you were bloodguilty.

obviously, we could never reach all persons with the "truth".

UnDisfellowshipped

Here is a List of Watchtower Quotes about BLOODGUILT that I put into a Thread: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=35669&site=3