a person over at wol (retcon) is apparently very indignant about ibm supplying the nazis with equipment for the administration of some of the concentration camps in nazi germany.
this equipment was used to classify the prisoners in the camps, and he mention that the ibm equipment helped kill between 700,000 and 1,2 million people.
he is of course appalled at the "corporate greed" shown by ibm.. he is also totally ignorant about watchtower society history and has never given much thought to what happens if the good news hes spreading should ever happen.. it must be very disturbing for brooklyn, which has been a very good customer for ibm during the years.
Norm, The self rightous behavior of witnesses never ceases to amaze me. It seems like they always try to paint corporations, worldly people, etc as negative and evil regradless of the situation. Did this guy actually think that Hitler showed up at IBM headquarters and informend them that he needed a machine for killing jews,etc and asked them what they had that would help. Industry cant be held accountable for what people do with their product, IBM probably thought the machines they were saleing them were going to be used for what they were designed for, harmless census work.
I hate to admit it but at one time I would have actually bought this load. I see things like this now and wonder what was wrong with me at that time, chemical imbalance maybe.
this morning my nearest and dearest were discussing issues relating to adoption.
a close relative of the family has been turned down as an adoptive parent because he and his wife are too wealthy!.
the adoption people say that it is important that children have some negative input into their lives, apparently not having money worries can be bad for you.. we carried on talking and her ladyship asked me whether jw`s ever adopted children.
I think that anyone that can provide a loving and supportive environment for childred to grow up in should be allowed to adopt. I dont think race, religion, or sexual preference matter. Some of this might just be my prospective living out here in Cali where people are more open to things.
As far as racism, it is getting better than it was and I think one day it will be eliminated. Just recently the census revealed that cali no longer has a majority. Whites of European decent only make up 49% of the pop. Latinos make up 33% African americans and asians make up the next two largest groups but it falls off significantly. As the population in america becomes more diverse racism will continue to fade, thats whats happened in cali and I think the pattern will continue throughout the rest of the USA.
arniem, your argument makes sence in that I understand it.
I think that the creator was trying to get a general message across in the bible, basically the one Jesus gave with his life. I dont believe any errors would cheapen this message. I am not saying that there are errors in the bible, for me to conclude that the bible contains errors I would have to know the intent of the writer and the context of the writing, without making any assumptions. What I am saying is if there is a difference in population counts so what, maybe the creator was protecting the message, in the bible and not the details.
I just wanted to chip in and say I liked you posts, I don’t agree with all of what you say but I do agree with some and I like to see the different viewpoints. And now I am going to share mine:
I believe that the bible was never intended to be a science book so if things in the bible are not scientifically accurate to me it proves nothing. The reason for this is you have to assume intent, you have to assume that the writer intended to write a piece that was scientifically accurate and not metaphor to determine that there was an error.
Think of Jesus, he spoke of many things that were not true historical events but were a 'truth' in that they conveyed a message, like the rich man and Lazarus. In short Jesus used metaphor to convey a message. I believe that the bible contains a great deal of metaphor because I believe its purpose was not to spill out facts but to teach moral lessons.
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So when fundies try to prove the existence of God by pointing out scriptures in the bible that were ahead of their time I roll my eyes.
So when an Atheist tries to prove the non-existence of God by pointing out the scriptures in the bible that are in error I roll my eyes.
As far as the question of if the bible has errors in it or not I don’t know
As far as whether it even matters if the bible is errant I don’t know
I have a great deal of respect for Jesus and the moral code he taught, I think the goal of the bible, its purpose in being written was to teach us this moral code. And as far as that goal the bible is capable of doing that, religions are not but the bible is.
Jelly
JanH I have a question for you, did the Jewish people at that time even have a decimal system that the concept of pie could be conveyed in? You seem to have read a lot about the history of the time.
it is generally acknowledged, and confirmed by experience, that there is a significant gender imbalance in the organisation.. there are considerably more sisters than there are brothers.
that's great for the brothers, because a lot of the poor jw lasses get so desperate that even the most dorky of brothers can take his pick.. but why is there this imbalance?.
it's true that birth rates show slightly more females being born than males (mother nature's way of safeguarding the future?
Perhaps it has something to do with the way women's social networks works. Conversions are almost never 'cold' (as in JW door-to-door work), but they use already existing social networks (family, friends, workmates).
That’s actually a very good point JanH, I have often wondered why the male / female ratio is so unbalanced. I don’t know how the other halls were but I know in mine all the sisters were brainwashed to believe that all ‘worldly men’ beat and cheated on their wives. The consequence of this belief was that sisters were afraid to leave the truth because they were just sure it would lead to an abusive relationship. So more sisters stayed in the organization while brothers were more likely to leave. There probably are a multitude of reasons for the imbalance with different levels of effect.
Larc, Tina, JanH I don’t believe Mommy does not want JanH to post, what she wants is to not be insulted. JanH made a good point in his paragraph but you had to be willing to look past the hostility to read it. I think many former JW’S could benefit from a class in communication, basically the understanding that every time a message is conveyed the context it’s conveyed in will either add or detract from the argument. So if you want to reason with people you must pay attention to your words, on the other hand if you want to ridicule people, for whatever reason, you argument will always be diminished.
i have not really thought this out yet but i was thinking after reading another post.
what exactly did jesus say about sex?.
the only things i can remember about jesus was that he revealed his messiahship to a woment that had multiple husbans (lovers), for married men to not lust after other women, and in his linage was a former prostitute.. .
Carmel, I personally am not sure about the apostle paul. Thats why I wanted to limit the discussion to what Jesus said in the Gospels. Sometimes I have trouble harmonizing what paul said with the actions of jesus. I am not sure if this is due to:
Not understanding what paul meant (due to lack of context) The writings of paul being perverted by early church Or maybe Paul was never inspired
can satisfy your desire to practice this popular American pastime of being constantly offended by everyone and everything
As an American (or 'merican' as you would say) I can assure you I and the vast majority of people I know do not fit your particular prejudice JanH. As a matter of fact I am not even offended by you ignorance expressed in the above quote, when people can only attack through generalizations it just shows they have no real argument.
I think what newlight2 was trying to say is that maybe we should be respectful of each other. I know I personally do not have a fragile little ego that breaks up when I encounter a differing view point but I do expect the person to respect me, I think Malcom X said it best when he said he refused to have any respect for someone that has no respect for him.
By the way glib little justifications do not excuse people from acting with some class and tact.
i think it would be interesting to know whether or not you believe that the jews recovery of their homeland (israel) in the 20th century had anything to do with god?
The entire middle east is an 'aparthied state' in a sense that they all want only thier little group to control everything. Isreal is no worse are better than the rest of them. The reason the US deals with Isreal is that they tend to be more stable than the rest of the region.
