Posts by pirata

42

What Are Their Motives?

by headisspinning in

i have a question.

if jws are a cult, what is the motivation of the leaders?

what are they getting out of controlling all these people?.

there is a family in Nevada that lives up in the hills in a mansion that takes most of the funds. You see, John Solomon and Alexander Polson started the religion in a dare and when it was successful and people became powerful under them, they allowed the people to stay in power by making sure the money made was funneled to them. Of course now, the original people have passed away... however, the payments were willed to surviving relatives in exchange for them being silent on the origin. I remember how in a letter from Brother Barber, he once admitted to me how when he uncovered this information, his faith was shaken. Even showing me a letter in which Rutherford wrote all future Governing Body members, to honor for all-time-sake, this arrangement. As he knew that if people in the religion ever knew the truth, they would find their lives shattered.

If you research, you find out that Alexander Polson died in 1912 in a suicide. His family wrote that his guilt for what he and John did had troubled him to the point, that taking his life was the only choice he could accet. John Solomon ammended the agreement with the Society in 1961, shortly before his own death, to end the shares of Alexander Polson. As only one relative of Mr. Polson still lived and had become a Jehovah's Witness and could no longer be in the secret fold of information and was asking to many questions.

It is now all organized under a comporation name of Inner Circle Consulting, Inc. Chartered and organized in Delaware. Most in the Society think it is an on going payment for consulting work on legal matters, and those who question the millions are often relocated or sent back to their home congregations.

@free2bme: Umm... do you have any evidence to back up this claim?

89

the other side of my story and why im going back

by deservingone26 in

jw
friends

there are two parts to this topic you can read one or the other or both if you want, i just figured i post this for differents ones who might being going thru what i am going thru i tried to write this as quick as possible so everything i am posting here is not to offend anyone i know everyone has the own opinions on different things so you can disagree or agree, but this is where i stand.

sorry for any spelling errors or grammar issues up front.

my story .

pirata

This is just my opinion but what is so great about not serving god his requirements are easy! And to pass up a possible reward just to live your life the way you want is it really worth it?

A "worldly" associate of mine had this reason very given to him by his Christian friend.

If there's even just 1% chance that the religion is right, isn't it worth taking that risk since the rewards are enormous?

The problem is that this reasoning can, and is, used by every religion out there. If you are a mormon, everyone else is screwed. If you are a JW, then everyone else is screwed. If you are a Muslim, then everyone else is screwed. In other words, even if you live your life by a particular religion hoping to get a big payoff, that chances of THAT particular religion being correct are also quite small. In that case, you're no worse off not being in any particular religious group (as there's a small chance that maybe Jesus just likes independent Christians who have gotten out of organized religion), who knows?

It's like going to a casino to win a prize, but there's only one casino in the world that actually gives any prizes and there's no way of knowing for sure which one it is (though everyone is certain that the casino they're at is the right one. Why? because they have already made a big emotional and/or financial investment into thir particular casino).

42

What Are Their Motives?

by headisspinning in

i have a question.

if jws are a cult, what is the motivation of the leaders?

what are they getting out of controlling all these people?.

pirata

I believe that the motives of the leaders are "sincere". Since they identify themselves as the "faithful slave" they feel responsible for keeping everyone in line. They also have the responsibility for upholding past teachings which were supposedly guided by Holy spirit. I can see why they are reluctant changing old doctrine even when there is good evidence against it, or equally valid interpretations.

That being said, I believe that the concept of being guided by God, and being the exclusive representative for the faithful slave, acting on the behalf of Jesus, has made them elevate their opinions and interpretations above the rest of the flock. Those who disagree are removed for they very fact that they disagree with the faithful slave. It doesn't matter if the disagreement is biblically sound, or if the interpretation is just as valid as the official one because the Bible is not clear on the matter. The flock are reprimanded for having their own personal opinions, and instead must accept the personal opinions of the leadership. Time has shown that many of the teachings can be nothing more than personal opinions that need to change as they are challenged or shown to be wrong.

Unfortunately, I see a strong parallel with the first century scribes and pharisees, who enforced myriads of rules to keep the common jews in line. As the religious leaders, they felt responsible for ensuring that the common jews did not violate the mosaic law. The became righteous overmuch, and Jesus had to remind them that they made the spirit of the law invalid by their myriads of rules. There was now only one rule: Love.

I highly recommend reading the book "Mistakes Were Made (But Not by Me): Why We Justify Foolish Beliefs, Bad Decisions, and Hurtful Acts". I have not finished it yet, but so far it has been very illuminating. It doesn't specifically deal with religious beliefs, so there's nothing here that should turn off an active JW.

20

Regular Pioneers: How low will the WT go?

by Alfred in

so i just came across an article in the watchtower (december 1, 1959 page 726) where it mentions that pioneers (or should i say culportuers?

) in the 1930s had to put in a minimum of 150 hoursper month in field circus with the phonograph (i'm guessing the record being played was rutherford's "millions" speech).

i have to wonder how many pioneers the wt would actually have nowadays if this were still the minimum monthly quota and if they'd still have to stand on a street corner with some sort of audio system... in today's economy, i really don't think they'll find much more than 2 potential candidates per circuit... which is obviously the reason that the gb keeps lowering the bar... .

pirata

Like this:

hours_total = n_pioneers * n_hours

I'm betting that if the net total goes up, then lowering the hours is seen as an overall gain.

A couple pioneers, whom I've talked about the pioneer status with, have commented that if it wasn't for the pioneer arrangement, they probably wouldn't be out in service as much (since there's less commitment). Then usually an example of how they didn't feel like going out a certain day, but they needed to get in the time, and it turned out to be the best day in field service they've had.

8

Experience re: Faking Field service time

by pirata in

noticed this experience while doing some research.

thought you might enjoy it:.

*** w64 9/15 p. 561 par.

pirata

Noticed this experience while doing some research. Thought you might enjoy it:

*** w64 9/15 p. 561 par. 10 “Carry On Prayer on Every Occasion in Spirit” ***

10 Three years ago a special pioneer minister of Jehovah’s witnesses had become ill during the end of the month. He was missing thirty hours for his monthly report in order to qualify for his money allowance, which then was especially needed. He dishonestly reported the full amount of time, expecting to make up the missing thirty hours of ministerial service next month. But difficulties continued and he was not able to make up the time. It seemed that Jehovah’s blessing was not upon his field preaching activities. In prayer he confessed his wrong to Jehovah. He also wrote to the Society to ask their forgiveness and offered to make an adjustment. The Society’s headquarters mercifully agreed to let the allowance stand as paid but said that the minister should make up the missing thirty hours during his vacation time that next summer. Yes, that prayer of confession brought relief to a stricken conscience and restored pleasant relationship with Jehovah and his people. Did not that prayer bring results?—Heb. 13:18.

28

Witness conversation stoppers...

by Botzwana in

this was forwarded to me by a witness....what are some witness conversation stoppers though?.

field ministry conversation stoppers.

***the householder said, "only those who have accepted jesus in their lives will be saved.

pirata

***The householder said, "Only those who have accepted Jesus in their lives will be saved." The brother responded with, "We certainly agree with that, but where does that leave Abraham, Moses, Job, King David and all the others in the Old Testament who never knew of Jesus?"

Answer: In Beth-Sarim

30

Recognizing Christ's leadership involves submission to his "brothers." 5/15/2011 WT

by miseryloveselders in

jw
friends

i hesitated to do this thread as i thought it was the same article flipper did, but its not the same article.

here's flip's thread for those who missed it.

it's a must read.. http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/207377/1/april-15th-wt-wt-society-says-obeying-us-is-same-as-obeying-god.

pirata

Another way to cooperate with Christ's "brothers" is to have a positive attitutude toward any refinements in our understanding of Scriptural truths as published by "the faithful and discreet slave."

In the article just before that, in one footnote, they dispense with a whole study article worth of information regarding a type and antitype of the olive tree. Evidently there is no type or antitype.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/207028/1/Why-was-the-type-antitype-understanding-of-the-Olive-Tree-thrown-out-May-15-2011-Watchtower

So was the Holy Spirit behind the original type/antitype understanding? Is it behind the new un-understanding?

29

am i wrong?

by lenahmata in

i know a regular pioneer, she's 18 years old.

i just knew that she had a relationship with a politician and a vicepresident of a certain parish church.

i told the elders about it.

pirata

As a JW, you technically you should have talked to her first and givern her the opportunity to talk to the Elders first, and then if she doesn't then you go talk to the Elders. You would need a second witness if she doesn't admit it.

Technically too, the congregation should not be creating divisions and gossiping about this. Did one of the elder's wives start blabbing or maybe the RP sister?

In the meantime, if this discussion board is not your thing, there's a lot of good factual information here: www.jwfacts.com

11

Old Time Assemblies Question - Watchtower Study

by Mad Sweeney in

please refresh my memory.. in the past, did they have an actual watchtower study at the assembly with questions and answers?.

if so, do you know when that ended and they started doing the review as a 30 minute talk?.

what would the arrangement at the assembly in, say, 1966 have been for the watchtower study?.

pirata

I started studying in 2006 and I was at 2 or 3 assemblies where the study was done with questions and rehearsed answers. So the change was made after 2006.

May have been the Bible Highlights (they still do this for the bible highlights). We have had the Watchtower summary for quite a while now.

13

WTF???

by headisspinning in

http://www.seanet.com/~raines/review.html.

the society at the time believed that some demons or fallen angels were honest and could be saved and return to god's organization.

[6] angels and women, they believed, was channeled or "dictated" to the author by one such fallen angel who was honest and told the truth about pre-flood conditions on earth.

pirata

Snoozy, transhuman68: Rutherford (not Russell). Russell had passed away by that time.