Posts by MrMonroe

43

Observations since the book study arrangement finished

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

does anyone have any interesting observations since the book study arrangement in private homes finished?.

are jws happier with the extra night off?

do they miss the book study?

MrMonroe

Isn't it odd that we're all left to surmise on the real reason they ditched the Thursday meeting. Any time the "org" made a decision -- change literature to a donation basis, shorten the Sunday public talk -- it always became a guessing game of the real reason, because you'd guarantee they'd never ever, ever say. Any decision was always cloaked with such super-spiritual, pious reasoning that you knew they were covering something up.

Why was it that they could never be honest and open with everyone? Why was there always an understanding that there were always no-go areas in conversations? We all knew that some things were the province of "the brothers" or "the society" and could never be discussed, let alone questioned.

25

Kingdom Hall Dreaming

by Darth plaugeis in

how many of you have had these dreams, where you find yourself at the hall or assembly?.

i have found myself in both scenarios, almost 10 years since i set foot in either, but when i do have these dreams (not often) i do laugh out loud in my dream saying "what the hell am i doing here" and the freinds..... oh how are you, it's so good to see you back.

and the venue is always dark.

MrMonroe

I don't recall dreaming about it after I left, but I remember I once dreamed an elder was puffing on a cigar while giving a talk on the platform.

11

Did you ever voice disagreement at the Watchtower study?

by MrMonroe in

it was only after leaving that i realised just how absurd and inaccurate many of the statements in the wt study really are.

the tag-team application of "this generation" is a classic example.. i'm interested to know if anyone who was in "good standing" actually did speak up at a meeting and challenge what's in the study.

what was the reaction?.

MrMonroe

I often wish now that I had done it. It was only after leaving that I realised just how absurd and inaccurate many of the statements in the WT study really are. The tag-team application of "this generation" is a classic example.

I'm interested to know if anyone who was in "good standing" actually did speak up at a meeting and challenge what's in the study. What was the reaction?

3

Ray Franz's last years

by MrMonroe in

can someone please tell me a little about ray franz's activities in the last 10 or 20 years.

did he speak at seminars or conventions, and if so, whose and how often?

did he receive much correspondence and did he reply?

MrMonroe

Can someone please tell me a little about Ray Franz's activities in the last 10 or 20 years. Did he speak at seminars or conventions, and if so, whose and how often? Did he receive much correspondence and did he reply? How much of his post-WTS life was devoted to assisting wavering and former Witnesses with their issues?

163

Field service reporting

by gutted in

so one of the elders called asking for my time.

i lied, somewhat.

yes i did talk to people about the "truth" but not in favourable terms.. has anyone simply stated, "i have not been in service this month"?

MrMonroe

In the last year or so of my involvement I stopped reporting, figuring I wasn't doing any, so I didn't want to lie. My wife saw it differently and put in reports every month for both of us, claiming we'd both done two hours. She was worried that if we failed to report, we'd get a visit from the elders. Several times in the previous few years the smarmy secretary told me that because I'd failed to report in the odd month he'd done one for me. When I was on my honeymoon the secretary, who was keen for me to become an MS, told me he'd put in a report while I was away. What a fraud!

I'm not sure where the two-hour benchmark was ever written down. And the dividing line of "irregular" and "inactive" seems to have been written in the OKM way back in 1984. Funny how those things become part of the handed-down knowledge without anyone ever seeing a written reference.

Like someone else on an earlier page, when we left, no one contacted us to ask whether we were OK. By that stage, I think, we were of no further use to them.

27

What are JW's saying about Ray Franz's death?

by Think About It in

jw
friends

some of you who still go to meetings or are around jw's.......what have you heard them say about the death of ray franz?.

.

think about it .

MrMonroe

I think he is largely unknown to Witnesses. Soon after I was baptised in 1985, someone told me almost as a sly bit of hot goss that one of the GB had been found to be apostate and they'd had to go back through everything he'd written to work out if he'd sneaked some twisted teachings in among them. It was Ray Franz, of course, and the comment was typical of the thinking that marked that wonderful M. Night Shyamalan film "The Village": "They're ut there waiting to get us!" A long time has passed since then. Certain Witnesses trying to keep the JW Wikipedia articles looking like PR pages hate Franz and will do anything they can to keep statements from his books off articles, and to them he is the devil incarnate. I'd guess they those people would be quietly cheering his demise. They don't realize the number of people for whom Ray unlocked the gates. Then again, maybe they do.

57

July 15th WT Study Article - Generation PR Fallout to Keep JW's Alert !

by flipper in

jw
friends

after perusing through this article sent to us by our lurking jw friend- that's what i took away from this study article entitled " what jehovah's day will reveal " .

this article was printed to keep jw's alert to the alleged urgency of the times - just in case some get puzzled by the new extended overlapping generation theory and lose their sense of urgency.

i think the wt society is covering their backside here , doing possible damage control , and are very nervous about negative fallout in regards to how some jw's may respond to this extended " overlapping generation " theory being pushed.

MrMonroe

Delightful quote on Wikipedia's entry on apostasy at Beliefs and practices of Jehovah's Witnesses that relates what the Watch Tower Society says about those eeeevil people who dare to walk out: "Apostates are described as proud, independent, ungrateful and presumptuous, displaying jealousy, fits of anger and other unchristian conduct and are said to often fall victim to drunken bouts, loose conduct and fornication." Man, that's so true! First three things I did when I got out was get into a drunken brawl, do some heavy petting and lay some chick I'd just met.

38

What questions JW's can't answer?

by XPeterX in

can you mention any or a list of questions?wanna right them down and ask a few jw's....curious of what is going to happen....

MrMonroe

If a judicial committee makes a decision to expel someone because they're directed by holy spirit, why is there an appeal process? Who is the appeal against -- the holy spirit's decision? If it's possible for the appeal committee to overturn the first decision, doesn't it prove that it's just a decision made by humans, and therefore just as liable to be swayed by emotion, prejudice and ignorance as a judge in a court of law?

38

What questions JW's can't answer?

by XPeterX in

can you mention any or a list of questions?wanna right them down and ask a few jw's....curious of what is going to happen....

MrMonroe

A few questions you could ask a JW who comes to call ...

1. If I decide to study with you and get baptised and become a JW, what will happen later if I change my mind and leave?

2. Can you be friends with a person of a different religion? If a close friend of yours, who is a JW, decided they didn't want to be a JW any more and wrote a letter to the elders and said so, would you still be their friend? Would you still talk to them? If not, would that be because you're scared of being expelled yourself?

3. I've heard that the Watchtower says Witnesses who write a letter of resignation from the religion are to be shunned. If the Bible says that Christians should shun people who are wicked, why do Jehovah's Witnesses shun people who simply want to leave their religion? If leaving a religion is so wicked that it warrants being shunned forever by your closest friends, why do JWs want everyone they call on to leave their religion?

4. How does your religion decide its doctrines? How does the Governing Body know what the anointed are thinking? If a person was one of the anointed (therefore of the FDS) and had a new thought about something, maybe decided that what they read in the magazines was incorrect, how does that get passed to the Governing Body, which actually makes the doctrines? Since the FDS is God's channel, does the fact that they had that thought meant that they got it from Jesus? What if 20 anointed had the same view? Or 200? Or 5000? At what point would the Governing Body decide they'd better change the doctrine?

5. If the Jehovah's Witnesses said you didn't have to go witnessing any more and turn in monthly reports, how much witnessing would you do? Would you be here today? If not, doesn't that mean you're only doing it out of fear of being looked down on by your elders?

48

Audio: Generation teaching as explained at the San Diego District Convention 05-30-2010

by kurtbethel in

this is an excerpt from the final talk of the day, "remain in the secret place of the most high".

i looked around as this explanation was being offered up, and the looks on the faces of people there was mostly disinterest.

this is a very convoluted explanation that reminds me of someone running a con and trying to cobble together an explanation to deal with legitimate objections to their false claims.. http://www.sendspace.com/file/dodp4w.

MrMonroe

"Convoluted" is one word for it. Some other words are baffling, nonsensical and dishonest. The definition of "generation" provided in the Feb 15, 2008 WT does at least bear some similarity with what the dictionary says. The dictionary says a generation is "all the people born at a particular time"; that WT says it's people who share "a common experience during the same time period". Well ohhh-kay ...it's a bit of a stretch, but we're with you so far, I guess.

The April 15, 2010 WT then stretches this further by saying the generation "usually refers to people of varying ages whose lives overlap during a particular time period". Sorry, but at that point they're contradicting what the dictionary says. My father's lifespan overlapped mine, but his generation was sure as hell not the same as mine. F.W. Franz, referenced in the convention talk, was born in 1893. That was 117 years ago. I think it's safe to say his generation has ended.

The strange thing is the way the speaker, around 3min 40, declares that the "generation" Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24 "comprises two groups of anointed Christians". He repeats the phrase for emphasis. The two groups are (a) those who were alive in 1914 and (b) a later group of anointed who for a time were contemporaries of the older group, in the same way, I guess, that my father and I were alive at the same time. This, of course, is a complete invention and achieves this by taking a further step away from the already dishonest use of the word. Where in Matthew 24 is there any suggestion of two groups? Jesus speaks of "the generation", not "two groups of anointed". And yet the speaker says some in the "second group" would be alive to see the Great Tribulation and claims the Bible says this.

Here he supports his claim with an illustration of Fred Franz. He suggests that because Franz's generation overlapped the lives of other anointed, they are all in the same generation. Does this make sense to you? Franz died in 1992. If my daughter was born in 1991, and therefore 19 today, would she be the same generation as Fred Franz? This is just wrong. It's a fiction, an invention, just dishonest.

Two final points: Curiously, the 2008 WT says that Jesus' words did not suggest a formula to enable them to determine when the last days would end. But that's precisely what the Watch Tower Society has always tried to determine.

And why does the audience applaud when the speaker announces the release of a new video? Why did they not stand up as one and say, "Hang on! None of that made any sense! Can we sort out that last piece of crap before you start handing out presents?" How many of them would have walked out of the convention that afternoon thinking, "Yep, got it. That made complete sense. I can explain that no worries." They would instead have been practising their beaming smile and ready to spout those immortal words, "That was so uplifting! So encouraging!"