Posts by JosephMalik

31

Job and the resurrection

by peacefulpete in

often the wt claims that the writer of job believed in the resurrection doctrine as espoused by the jws.

the usual verses lifted from context are 14:13-15 which says: .

if only you would set me a time .

Actually, as I explained above, Job expresses a wish for a restoration of life from death, but he makes it clear that his wish is not based on a real hope. Wishes are not hopes. Although he dearly wanted to die and let God return him to life after his wrath had subsided, he knew that that wasn't going to happen.

Leolaia,

Job knew that was not going to happen to the mortal man that he was. He also knew that this would not happen in his day. So he wrote from this perspective. But we cannot say that his wish if some would call it that was not based on a real hope simply because we may not understand his musings. Why not let Job tell us what he believed?

14:13 O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!

This much was covered well but it is not fair to simply call this a wish. Why? Because he went on to say:

14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. 15 Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.

Sounds more like the apostle Paul who discussed the resurrection in similar detail than Job. The changed Job, the immortal human Job, that is what this man was looking forward to and this was his real hope (wish?) in God. He knew that this would occur far in the future at a time when his God would call him and perform such a task in his behalf. As for mortal man his comments were appropriate, as this is all that awaits mortal man.

Joseph

31

Job and the resurrection

by peacefulpete in

often the wt claims that the writer of job believed in the resurrection doctrine as espoused by the jws.

the usual verses lifted from context are 14:13-15 which says: .

if only you would set me a time .

JosephMalik

Peaceful Pete,

On what basis can anyone postulate that everytime Job wrote a verse regarding death that he would also include a reference to a resurrection from such death? Is this reasonable? It is evident from the texts that for the most part he simply considered the practical and visible or apparent aspects of death without regard to such a spiritually derived resurrection. Flash made his point well and this is enough. Job is not a book about resurrection but of deep seated Faith in God. Yet Job did have a concept of some future life in this God as shown.
Joseph

5

Adam and Eve: Perfection vs. Sinlessness

by the_classicist in

i've noticed that jws have held the opinion, officially, that adam was perfect.

now, i would assume the definition of perfection would be the state in which one does all things correctly, one who lives a live without mistake, which is different from sinlessness in which one does not offend god.

*** it-1 44 adam ***.

JosephMalik

Personally, I can't find any evidence to support the idea that Adam was perfect, only that he had not sinned. What do you think? Am I just splitting hairs?

Classicist,

No! Adam would have died without intervention of some sort in his behalf. So a tree of life was provided for this purpose and at the proper time he would have eaten from this tree and gained immortality.

Joseph

27

Memorial Celebration -- Bethel Needs to Check Their Calendar

by kalela in

has anyone within bethel happened to check the jewish calendar?

yesterday my stepdaughter was trying to figure out if she had the week off from school.

so i looked up the nyc board of education calendar and was shocked to discover that she won't be off until april 21st - 25th.

JosephMalik

Nisan 14th as April 23rd

Evesapple,

April 23rd is also Nisan 15 but in the evening when the Sun goes down. This is when Passover week actually starts. This is when our Lord would have consumed the Lamb that was just cooked over the fire. This is why so much confusion exists on this subject. We can talk about the same day and the events that take place that day without regard to the date change that takes place on that day. Our Lord ate the Passover as He had an entire Passover week ahead of Him available for His sacrifice.
Joseph

52

The Cult of Four "Just Imperfect" Men

by Farkel in

the cult of four "just imperfect" men.

(please move on to the next thread, fluffers.

move on!

JosephMalik

Farkel,

You have my AMEN. Good work.

Joseph

27

Memorial Celebration -- Bethel Needs to Check Their Calendar

by kalela in

has anyone within bethel happened to check the jewish calendar?

yesterday my stepdaughter was trying to figure out if she had the week off from school.

so i looked up the nyc board of education calendar and was shocked to discover that she won't be off until april 21st - 25th.

JosephMalik

This business about the spring equinox is nothing more that a lot of Watchtower baloney. Determining when the Passover should begin has always been the responsibility of the Jews keeping the Law. The exact date for such a Passover was determined by visual observance of the New Moon and could vary by a day or so depending upon weather conditions. So this is not an exact science always resulting in a precise date or month.

The Passover was NEVER observed on Nisan 14 by Jews despite all the WT ramblings about it. Passover begins with Nisan 15 and is always a Sabbath. This makes it impossible for our Lord to be executed on the next afternoon as it was still a Sabbath by Law. The Watchtower does not understand Passover, the Memorial meal or most of scripture for that matter. It is a wonder how they have gotten away with such rubbish for so long. Go figure.

P.S. Ben is right about the extra month in the Jewish Calendar. Only Jews tracking the New Moon and keeping their Calendar would know when to insert it. Neither the WT nor Christianity is qualified to determine the time for Passover.
Joseph

21

Resurrection to Spirit Form, Your Opinion would be Appreciated,

by jeanniebeanz in

2 corinthians 5:6-8 seems to indicate that, according to traditional christian thinking, once a christian dies they are immediately present with the christ.. .

2 corinthians 5:6-8 (kjv).

6. therefore [we are] always confident, and know that while present in the body we are absent from the lord, 7 (for we walk by faith, not by sight;) 8 we are confident, i say, and pleased rather to be absent from the body and present with the lord.. .

JosephMalik

Bas,

You will find much more detail on the views offered in my book and documents found on my web page. Furthermore, I am not the only one that shares such views but as can be expected everyone has their own variation and you should determine for yourself what such truth really is. Variation in doctrine also existed in the first century and the apostle Paul did much to resolve this. Today we are far beyond such variation and most so called Christian doctrine is not even close to the truth.

The WT for one has never had the truth or preached the good news of the kingdom as they claim. Their doctrine is a mess and unresolveable. So you are faced with the responsibility of finding truth for yourself. The task is not impossible and accurate supportable views will be found. All I have tried to do is assist in this effort but what you teach others must come from you.
Joseph
http://home.earthlink.net/~jmalik/

21

Resurrection to Spirit Form, Your Opinion would be Appreciated,

by jeanniebeanz in

2 corinthians 5:6-8 seems to indicate that, according to traditional christian thinking, once a christian dies they are immediately present with the christ.. .

2 corinthians 5:6-8 (kjv).

6. therefore [we are] always confident, and know that while present in the body we are absent from the lord, 7 (for we walk by faith, not by sight;) 8 we are confident, i say, and pleased rather to be absent from the body and present with the lord.. .

JosephMalik

Nowhere in scripture does it teach that human beings will be resurrected to be a spirit being as Christ was. The dual seed of Christ is unique. The seed that is sown by us is human, therefore the body that results will also be human albeit immortal.

The Apostle Paul considered the various Corinthian [and somewhat pagan] views regarding resurrection and reduced them to this simple fact.

The word spirit, while it can refer to a non-human being can also refer to a God given body or even a mortal human being uttering prophecy or an assembly of Christians doing such along with many other uses too numerous to relate here.

Likewise the word heaven(s) is not only an alternate word for God but it is also a way to describe human governments as such human governments exist by God permission to maintain order until Christ's kingdom replaces them.

Thus the heavens and the earth that are now (human governments and their populations) will at the appropriate time be replace with a new heaven and a new earth in this kingdom (a human government with a new human population consisting of immortal human beings).

The passage of time is not always considered when such prophecies are uttered and such time is not a factor at death. Association with our Lord is not considered to be interrupted during such a time. So it takes a bit of contemplation when such texts are interpreted and we must understand clearly what this kingdom is, where it will be, how it will function and why before we can understand such texts properly. Unfortunately present Christian doctrine is so inaccurate or distorted that few will ever grasp what is really taught in such texts this side of this kingdom.

Joseph

23

Sheep & Goat separation takes place during the 1000 years.............

by Schizm in

jw
friends

.........and the following verse proves it.matt.

25:46 - these will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life.. .

the wts still says that the sheep/goat separation is premillennial.

JosephMalik

Those who are to rule with Christ will do so as SPIRIT persons.

Schizm,

Actually it does not say this but think what would such a Spirit person be in this Kingdom? A person with a God given body or an immortal human being not a mortal human being like Adam was. The depth of meaning that the scriptural term Spirit conveys goes far beyond the idea of non-human forms. While everyone seems to think this is the most important feature of such Kingdom inhabitants, actually justification is the most important quality that only the Saints will possess at the beginning of the millennium and over such justified second death has no authority. All resurrected or changed human beings in this Kingdom will be immortal raised or changed by Christ but only some will also be justified. The rest (sheep) will not attain such justification until after the final test.

Joseph

23

Sheep & Goat separation takes place during the 1000 years.............

by Schizm in

jw
friends

.........and the following verse proves it.matt.

25:46 - these will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life.. .

the wts still says that the sheep/goat separation is premillennial.

JosephMalik

Hello Bas,

Glad you were entertained by my comments.

There is only one Kingdom. Everyone that will be a part of this Kingdom will be in the same place. While that place may be called heavenly in some texts this does not mean it exists somewhere other than this earth. Heavenly simply means higher than or above other Kingdoms that have existed and we know that our Lord will return here to this earth to rule in it. This is why it is said that He will inherit the throne of David at such a time.
Joseph
http://home.earthlink.net/~jmalik/