Welcome goman! I'm sure you'll see many topics of interest here that relate to your situation.
Take care and perhaps you'll post some of your insights This place is a good sounding board.
Hadit
Posts by Hadit
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6Introducing goman
by goman ini've been lurkin for a while and i've been reading and replying some posts.. i'm catholic and my wife is a j.w.
i studied with j.w.s for a while then stopped for occupational reasons.. our relationship is tense.
but i managed to keep our peace so far.
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175
Were you Stalked or Chased After Once you Exited the JW's by Elders ?
by flipper ini tried to fade off the map by moving 30 miles initially in 2004 after i exited in late 2003 .
the first several years they didn't bother me.
i ran into a elder from my former congregation in late 2005 in an antique store - he tried telling me i was wrong for stopping attending meetings.
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Hadit
Great thread Flipper - thanks for sharing your lovely time with stalking.
I'm so sorry for everyone's plight! They are sick, twisted individuals who have no life of their own. The misery and mental distress they cause is widespread and evil.
I'm going through the harassment and stalking right now. This week has been horrendous. These people are sick. I can't go into much detail because this lovely brother informed me that he keeps regular watch on the internet boards as to what the apostates are saying. Nice. If anyone doubted that your congregation elders are watching these boards - they are. I'm pretty sure they are directed to. They are losing a tremendous amount of people to the information available through these sites. GOOD! I hope the lurkers are taking note of all these sick things, as well as the invasion of privacy and the lives that they turn upside down. Everyone is programmed to turn you in. No questions allowed or rather, they are allowed but you must believe their answers. The 1984 nightmare is real.
That's it for now. I'll see how this soap opera unfolds.
Take care all!
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25
Belief Polerization: A possible reason JWs are more convinced when facing critical information.
by bohm insuppose two people, alice and bob, have different views upon some controversial issue.
we might imagine alice is a jehovahs witness and bob is an doubting relative, and the issue could be: is jehovahs witnesses gods organization.
now we give them both new information, some favorable to the issue being true, others unfavorable.
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Hadit
But I think the example, that of the difference between the sexes is very pertinent to your topic.
I completely agree. Again it goes back to our environment and conditioning. We have completely different conditioning as differing sexes and completely different experiences from that conditioning. As QL said there are also loads of other differences involved.
Hadit: The situation with Alice and Bob was crafted such that mind control was not involved - thats my point; things that look extremely strange from Bobs POW (note the situation would be just as strange from Alices!) need not involve mind-control.
Bohm - I'm not sure my point came across either. That conversation does not exist in a vacuum. They come into that conversation with all their preexisting programming and biases (and as quietlyleaving pointed out that conditioning involves the difference between the sexes as well). There is a huge interplay going on between the conscious mind and the subconscious mind. We hang onto things we are programmed to believe and it also involves a certain comfort level we do not want to disturb by entertaining a different view. The brain seeks familiar ground, therefore, no matter what is heard they stick to how it affirms their own reality.
Very interesting topic Bohm - it certainly makes one think!
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27
Only JW's will survive Armageddon...
by Bluegill inis there anything in print by the wtbs that actually says or strongly suggests only jw's will survive armageddon and live in the new system?
i know someone that has a hard time believing that god will destroy almost 6 billion people and doesn't recall ever being told that only jw's will survivie..
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Hadit
Come now Heaven! Jehovah is going to wipe all the evil stuff from their memory. They won't have to remember their evil and Satanic family that's hurt them by not listening to Jehovah (GB). What a loving provision!
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Were the Dinosuars on Noahs Ark? Watch. 1973 = Yes!!!
by Witness 007 inwatch.
1973 july 15 p.7 "questions from readers.
when did the dinosuars become extinct?".
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Hadit
Exwhyzee - LOL about the straws! I hope they were the multicolored bendy straws!
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JW wedding today (9/11)
by asilentone inat facebook, i just saw the photos of a jw wedding that took place today (9/11) i would not want to get married on 9/11.
your thoughts?.
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Hadit
I wouldn't get married again on any given day.
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elders who are disfellowshipped
by EAGLES inwhen an elder gets difellowshipped do the jc demand that he return the elder textbook.
what if he refuses to turn it over what then?
i see a lot of quotes from the textbook on here from time to time am i to assume that most of them are coming from elders who are still in good standing?
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Hadit
Hey Eagles - don't you just love the hypocrisy? The elders did that to me as well. Their kids all bought homes, got a career and went to college. I gave up three scholarships. Of course now they all say they never told anyone what to do and it was my choice not to go!! WTH?? Such liars. You are right they have certainly changed people's course in life when they tampered with their choices. It's a bitterness that really is tough to get over.
Take care!
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25
Belief Polerization: A possible reason JWs are more convinced when facing critical information.
by bohm insuppose two people, alice and bob, have different views upon some controversial issue.
we might imagine alice is a jehovahs witness and bob is an doubting relative, and the issue could be: is jehovahs witnesses gods organization.
now we give them both new information, some favorable to the issue being true, others unfavorable.
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Hadit
Good post Bohm.
I'm inclined to believe mind control is involved even at that point. As JWs our mind has continuously been exposed layer, by layer (some since birth) to the WTS teachings or programming – repetitively and at regular intervals. They install Pavlovian trigger words and an automatic subconscious reaction - brain circuits fire (bringing to the conscious mind the previously instilled belief system) at the same time shutting down the frontal lobes which immediately shut down reasoning and logic. Your brain is on autopilot run by the meticulously installed programming and your mind runs in circles defending your position. You literally cannot hear or even think about what is being presented from an objective point of view – it is all subjective to your previous programming (of course fear is also another mind paralyzing tactic they instill in us which freezes logical thinking). Yet, the belief is there that it is coming from “within us” our thoughts that we made independently – which is not so.
As JWs we have not been allowed to form various belief systems outside of the WTS and not allowed objectivity (no independent thought). Therefore, our frame of reference is extremely skewed and narrow. Now what is the difference with the doubting JW? In most cases, the person who has doubts was exposed to more than one belief system with varying degrees of objectivity and many sided views about different topics. They are, therefore, able to reason objectively from various frames of reference. They are thus able to comprehend things that are negative about the witnesses. Somewhere at some point the doubting person enlarged their frame of reference – perhaps allowed themselves more independent thought, perhaps they internally rejected some doctrines, read more books or had some degree of education, were not always witnesses or had liberal parents (even as JWs) or had outsiders as friends – whatever may have broadened their “outside” information base.
That is why we must at all costs avoid trigger words with people we are trying to get through to. We need to work around the programming – short circuiting it. We need to help them develop their logic and reasoning skills outside of the JW world. Fear is another mind paralyzing addition to all this b
This is why the WTS discourages independent thinking, education and worldly association and ties up our time with their mind programming literature and meetings.
I hope this makes sense (they are only my thoughts on it and could be totally off base)! Of course it takes a lot of patience and time to do this. It’s also hard to not use trigger words when our emotions are involved and we just desperately want them to see the truth about the WTS.
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Oct. 15th WT ( JW Version ) - Don't Trust your Own Viewpoint - it's Distorted
by flipper inonce again our lurking jw friend sent us the oct. 15th jw study version for the wt studies.
in this article you'll observe the wt society really making jehovah's witnesses question themselves, doubt themselves - even if what they are observing the organization doing - they are not to doubt jehovah or the organization, but their own imperfect human judgments.
in other words : " don't trust your own mind - it's skewed ".. under the article titled, " keep on seeking first his righteousness " on pg.8 it lays the groundwork in stating, " seeking his righteousness includes trying to live according to his values, and perfect standards, not our own.
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Hadit
Good thread Flipper. However, it is infuriating! They are sick, sick, sick and twisted. No wonder so many people in this org (and out) have mental distress, anxiety and depression. They CAUSE it by telling us that our viewpoints (minds) are distorted and limited. Thus when we have thoughts based upon our lives and circumstances and knowledge WE are caused to question them and thus think WE are nuts and that there is something wrong with us.
The cognitive dissonance brought about can drive you crazy! You second guess everything you do (OCD which could lead to paranoia), you stress out over all your decisions (anxiety and panic), you believe all your decisions are wrong and that you cannot do anything right (lowered self-worth/esteem, self-respect), you now feel worthless and unable to cope and get sad and angry (depression/suicidal). You try to leave then you are stuck with post-traumatic stress disorder!
The whole system of theirs is set up to cause all sorts of mental distress. What better way to keep people trapped in a cult (even when they are “out”) than to cause mental disorders. It is much easier to keep people obedient when they have lowered mental faculties and talked to like they are idiots who cannot understand “deep” things. They keep you in a state of constant stupor.
Evil, controlling and demented.
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36
Do you love or hate to cook?
by VampireDCLXV injust a quick poll if you will.... i personally hate to cook.
it's not that i'm particularly bad at it, i just don't have a whole lot of patience or motivation to do it.
i suppose it has something to do with my having to live alone?
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Hadit
Great! It's 12:41 a.m. and I am now STARVING! Calling Outlaw - since you live somewhere near me please come and cook up a yummy meal for me. I would be most appreciative!
I like to cook but it gets tedious cooking every single day, day in day out. It's also hard to come up with what to cook every day. I wish I had Gordon Ramsay's fully stocked pantry and kitchen with all those yummy foods and great cookware and ovens.