Posts by JT

175

This may be my last postso goodbye and thanks

by seven006 in

jw
friends

i never thought i would do one of those infamous goodbye i cant take this board anymore posts where the person shows up again a week later and looks like an idiot.

when i had enough of this board and needed a little break i would just quietly leave for a few months and hopefully nobody noticed.

that is not the case this time.

JT

dave

i am sorry to hear about what you are dealing with, but i have loved everyone of your post

feel free to touch base with me here in Washington DC

[email protected]

301-402-4841

34

Will DA'ing myself be better for my children's future?

by indoubt in

jw
friends

background

i have been fading away, and considered fully "inactive" for over 2 years now.

my wife is still a very active jw, and she brings my 2 children (5 & 3) to the meetings and service on a regular basis.

JT

keep in mind the elders may decide to used the nov 15 -88 wt to tell your wife to leave you and take the kids, why

they are all in "spiritual endangerment"

jw are known to hide jw who leave their mates on such grounds, keep in mind that DA in my view is the worst thing one can do, why because this is exactly what the wt WANTS you to do

the legel dept wants to get your letter in the congo files for their protection

many former jw have no idea what the purpose of the elders requesting a "LETTER" from you

many persons are told by elders , if you feel this way about the org why don't you just write a letter

and said to say too many in my view compile with what is actually the society's wishes-

while it might provide some mental break- it is actually carrying out the last will and testament as it were that the society wants from you

so even on the way out the door one is still complying to wt rules, esp rules est by the legal dept

as mentioned take your kids out to do stuff and keep them busy, they will hate going to the hall sitting for 2 hours- instead of going to the park

esp at the age they are now

think long and hard about how you want to do this

as has been seen so many times, many former jw while they would still have left, they often wish they had done it a different way- esp if they have kids

you you are single no kids just you is one thing, this is why each person nneeds to look at their situation and go from there

while it is true what works for one maynot work for others, but there is much that can be learned from others

27

The "routine", The failure

by Pathofthorns in

jw
friends

is it possible to do all that is required as a witness?

if one were to put down on paper all that is required to carry out, both with secular work and a good spiritual routine, is it even possible to do all that one is "supposed" to do?.

a basic routine includes:.

JT

Instead of saying, “the Society teaches,” many Witnesses prefer to use such expressions as, “the Bible says” or, “I understand the Bible to teach.”

If you were to follow the wt new directives think of how silly it would sound

1.

The Society says that there are some blood fractions we can take as jw and others we can't

--so The Society used to say that such a person will be DF, but now the society says they will be DAed..

at least with the above a jw could show you page and paragraph from the wt that says the above

2

The Bible says that there are some blood fractions we can take as jw and others we can't -

so so The Bible used to say that such a person will be DF, but now the bible says they will be DAed..

problem here is no jw can show you this from the bible

3

My understanding of the bible is that it says that there are some blood fractions we can take as jw and others we can't

so according to My understanding of the bible such a person will be DF, but now according to My understanding of the bible it says they will be DAed..

problem here is the person is given "MY" or his personal opinion of what he thinks the bible says or means, which carries no more weight than what Leroy up the street says, since the jw can't take you to the bible and show you the approved list and unapproved list

27

The "routine", The failure

by Pathofthorns in

jw
friends

is it possible to do all that is required as a witness?

if one were to put down on paper all that is required to carry out, both with secular work and a good spiritual routine, is it even possible to do all that one is "supposed" to do?.

a basic routine includes:.

JT

Anybody remember that Watchtower study in which we were taught not to say: "The Society said this, the Society teaches us that....."

Instead we were supposed to say: "The Bible says this, the Bible teaches us that...."

Here you go:

*** w98 3/15 pp. 18-19 Living Up to Christian Dedication in Freedom ***

3 Someone may argue that the way the Witnesses speak about the Watch Tower Society—or more often just “the Society”—indicates that they view it as more than a legal instrument. Do they not consider it to be the final authority on matters of worship? The book Jehovah’s Witnesses—Proclaimers of God’s Kingdom clarifies this point by explaining: “When The Watchtower [June 1, 1938] referred to ‘The Society,’ this meant, not a mere legal instrumentality, but the body of anointed Christians that had formed that legal entity and used it.” The expression therefore stood for “the faithful and discreet slave.” (Matthew 24:45) It is in this sense that the Witnesses generally used the term “the Society.” Of course, the legal corporation and “the faithful and discreet slave” are not interchangeable terms. Directors of the Watch Tower Society are elected, whereas Witnesses who make up ‘the faithful slave’ are anointed by Jehovah’s holy spirit.

4 In order to avoid misunderstandings, Jehovah’s Witnesses try to be careful about how they express themselves. Instead of saying, “the Society teaches,” many Witnesses prefer to use such expressions as, “the Bible says” or, “I understand the Bible to teach.” In this way they emphasize the personal decision that each Witness has made in accepting Bible teachings and also avoid giving the false impression that Witnesses are somehow bound to the dictates of some religious sect.

43

Did the elders ask for sexual details at your Judicial meeting?

by kid-A in

.

i personally know of two cases where the witness being disfellowshipped was asked to provide excruciating details about the exact nature of the "sex crime" that they had committed.. having read the secret elders manual "pay attention to yourselves and all the flock" i know this is standard operating procedure for a judicial hearing.

for those that were disfellowshipped for a "sex crime"

JT

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/4114/1.ashx

REPOST

I thought the name of this thread was so on time for this thread demostrates one of the sad things about claiming to speak for god, when one actually does not.

when i was a newly appointed elder at the tender age of 27

i was introduced to the world of the JUDICAL COMMITTEE.

It was in fact my first case. i had gotten a call from the

what type of case would it be and would i be selected to serve on it since i was a new elder or would i be told next you can serve.

right after the prayer we quickly entered the 2nd school. and there we sat, the po annouced that he had been approached by a single sister who stated she had sexual relationship with a man on her job and this would require the formation of a judical committe.

i recall so well that one bro almost jumped out of his seat to volunteer stating that since she was in his bookstudy he felt that he would be in a good position to serve.

the po stated he would be out of town so he could not do it this weekend and it needed to be handle quickly cause it was publicly known on her job

- the guy got the sister stuff and-went bragging about bagging a JW-

so another bro was recommended and then the po said let James serve it will be good exp. we got 2 exp elders already.

so the time was arranged for sat at 2pm at the hall to meet with her but we would meet at 1:30pm to review the flockbook

well i was up late friday night reviewing the flockbook on how i could be a loving shepard for this dear sister who had been swallowed up by this worldly man - a tool of satan_

then the time came she walked into the room and i had known her for a number of years and my wife and her were good friends so the embarrassment on her face was so telling

after a prayer the chairman explained a few ground rules no tape recorders , etc

then she was asked to tell us what happened

when she finished --the woman was shaking and eyes just full of water

then the questioning began

at first the question were basic one that i thought sounded reasonable, but in just a few min i realized why the bookstudy conductor wanted to serve on her case

i found out later that he was interested in her yrs ago, but she wasn't

he married and his wife was one of those big black sisters who was good in field service , but not much to really look at

while this sister kinda put in mind of a Venessa Williams type to put in plainly she was a nice looking sister i won't lie

but the questions took a wild left hand turn, he started and the other bro would followup it was like machine gun questions

Who was on top
Did he Climax
was there oral or any anal

and on an on it went
and yes the famous question:

"Were you wearing Panites or Thongs?"

i could see that she was starting to lose it and she just brokedown into tears- so she was excused to go to the bathroom

while she was out it was explained to me as a new elder that such questions were NEEDED to see if she was consistent in her story and the details- to see if she was truly repentant or was it a practice

he explained to me that a "Practice" could be considered if the person had sexually intercourse more than once during the night while in the bed with the person- that it was not needed for it to be separate days, but more than once in the same night and it "could be" considered that the person had made it into a "Pratice"

the TECHNICAL DETAILS that wt gives it's elders are unreal

such as the difference between

1. MOMENTARYLY TOUCHING A SISTER'S BREAST

2. CARRESSING IT-

oUR WT elders school spent about 25 min in our class explaining the difference between the two and each has it's own
punishment

i was told that the Panty-Thong question would reveal

"INTENT" "Scheming" "planning" etc on the part of the sister

you see as it was explained to me if she was wearing Bloomers or reg panties then if a claim was made that we got carried away in the heat of the moment then it would be possible

but if she was wearing "Thongs" then she went to his house with the intent of Giving him Some

now this is how i was beening groomed and instructed, being a new elder who had never served on any case i didn't know

these guys were exp elders with yrs of judical cases under thier belt-
beside these were all Former bethelites like myself so of course the boys from THE HOUSE knew how the judicial meeting was to be handle

well she came back into the room and sat down and the questions started again in a few min and at this point she refused to answer anymore questions LIKE THAT and she told us she would not answer THOSE TYPES OF QUESTIONs

"Girl Friend" picked up her bag and walked out

in 5 min we decided that she was "UNREPENTANT" AND DFED HER

I SWEAR TO GOD i only wish i could find her and tell her how sorry i was for allowing her to literally be ganged raped by those guys

this system of the WT of having men called Elders with no training FREELY be able to ask any Damn quesiton they want to and the persons is obligated to answer or else be viewed as not working with Jehovah's Organization is a Damn Joke

I often wonder whatever became of that sister- she attended only about 2or 3 meetings after the annoucement and disappared into thin air

If you are reading this post and you know who you are

for i'm in the area of the country

I beg you to please accept my apology for supporting such a cruel and evil system

James

48

Generation Change

by slugga in

i left the org slightly before the change in the "generation that was alive in 1914" thing was announced and wondered, what were peoples in the congregations reactions after this was announced and did it you notice people falling away because of it?

has it had a damaging effect?

JT

The WBTS clearly claimed that Armageddon would occur before the generation that was old enough to understand the social and political events of 1914 would pass away, or die. Not only did they make this claim, but they published it bi-monthly on the 3rd page of one of their rags. Certainly this would happen within my life span. I understood this at a very early age

#########

this was me as well and afterward we started our journey out of the org

37

my letter to my dad. what do you think?

by freedomlover in

hey you all.

well finally got the courage to put this all down on paper for my dad.

if you want to read it and give me any feedback i'd truly appreciate it.

JT

He has agreed with us completely on every subject we have discussed. He and my stepmom have been having SERIOUS doubts lately. They are both physically and emotionally sick because of the stress of this org.

#########

then you will do well, you have something to work with, i think your letter being sent to him under the circumstances and the previous conversations you all have had, the ground work as been laid months back by you- excellent work my man- your approach is the way we have to do it, slow and consistently- throttle back when need to and keep moving forward

let me tell you something man, you will exp an emotional freedom and closeness to your folks that you never had in your life as a jw

for finally once in your life if you are able to get them out and i hope you are, you all will nolonger have to judge them or be judged based on some bogus standards set by the wt

"are you up to date on your mag reading" "how many hours you got this month" "couldn't you have gone to the hall tonight, i see you felt good enough to go to work"

no more will you have to be judged or judged based on bogus standards of god

i truly wish you the very best, i tell folks all the time, the Net "THANG" is the place where one can come and see how others have handled many times the exact situation and learn from their successes and errors, in handling family who are jw

personally i get disappointed in many former jw and the advice they give or the actions they stand by and watch others take, that often times end up creating worst relationships with their family than not

each person needs to understand there is not ONe size fits all- but there are some common thiings we all need to do

i see former jw shout and yell - jw are a cult, jw are brainwashed,etc- yet their advice on how to deal with such family members literally reflect no awarness of how a person in a high control group/cult/brainwash behaves-

yet we all KNOW the standard routine, of the jw first liine of defense- we have forgotten what we all learned in wt, in wt were fully prepared for every possilbe issue that a householder could bring up, cause we studied thier BElief system, we all knew as JW that the avg householder couldnt find Gen from REv and so it worked to our advantage

well folks it is the same here, we all know that the avg jw has absolutely no idea of what the wt has done behind the "Curtain"

so we need to use that to our advantage, we all know that jw don't stand a snowball chance in HE!! against the documentation, proof, eveidence that we can march out with the click of a mouse,

but how many former jw have actually thought, why doesnt it work like magic, after i show them this stuff- and therein lies the problem- our approach too many times triggers off the years of wt indoctrination, it is like a computer file is launched to cause all Systems to Shut down

and WE ALL KNOW THAT SO why do we keep shutting down the systems i ask-

AS WE MOVE into over 10-15yrs of internet access of wt info- we now have too much info at our finger tips to be shutting folks minds down due too many times to our approach-

even the jw poster here, ON:LINE they are attacked the minute they defend the Org, -Damn what do we actually expect them to do- the poor guy fully believes the Boys in Writing get messages from God - so why even act shocked when they go off-

anyone who has worked in a mental institute will tell you, seeing folks go off is standard stuff- no big deal-

same on the net seeing a jw defend the org while looking at 130yrs of documentation is actually in my exp Standard Operation Procedure on the part of the jw- smile

but there are many who provide some of the best advice you can get when it comes to dealign with a jw

i think we just need to take the opportunity to grow as nonjw in our approach to jw - ,most of us have-- Been There Done That and bought the TEE Shirt- smile

just my 2

37

my letter to my dad. what do you think?

by freedomlover in

hey you all.

well finally got the courage to put this all down on paper for my dad.

if you want to read it and give me any feedback i'd truly appreciate it.

JT

your letter is great- but their is one problem you are writing it to a dyed in the wool society man,

so i have to ask why are you writing this letter, is it to provide you with the freedom that you need to move on, then great- but is it to help your dad see why you have chosen this course, for example you state the following

1. I am not a threat to the congregation.

2. I don’t plan on discussing these issues with anyone else.

3. I just want to walk away and start over.

4. I’m not planning on becoming immoral, or

5. becoming a Satan worshiper.

Now unless your dad has his own doubts and concerns about the organization- you sound like an Apostate to me-

anyone who questions the org is by default a threat to the congo, for he will say, see how you are trying to destroy MY Faith

you said you want to walk away, walk away from WHAT is what the mind of a jw ask, see you and i and the rest of us know you are talking about the org NOT GOD- but sad to say that is not what it means to a devoted jw, in his eyes you are like job was told to be, curse god and die

as for being immoral, you are thinking about runing women smoking dope,etc, not him to him it goes well beyond such conduct, to question the mouth pc of god is like Moses sister questioning him in gods sight

and the last one was the funniest one of all, we all know what you meant, a Satan worshiper, ---

but in the mind of a jw, if you are not worshiping the true god like he is Then who are you serving, - so yes he will veiw you as a worshiping of Satan , one who deliberatly chose to worship and tried to get him to join in with you

recall the kids of Korah and Daithan and the Boys-

their family rejected them when they turned on gods channel moses and remained faithful- well most jw see themselves in the same situation when a family approches them with such a letter

not trying to rain on your parade. i've just seen too many former jw burn down brigdes that otherwise they could have used to deliver droplets of info t their family to get out

i just hate to see you join the long list of former jw who only wish they had handled it another way

if you day is a good society man, then he is programmed to shut down faster than a ATM machine on the 3rd wrong try

being that we all know that, i just feel we need to be smarter in our approach to dealing with jw, we all know the rountine, we need to approach it much better

i firmly beleive that many former jw could have gotten better results if they had approached it from a different angle

in the 8yrs online i have seen very few Frontal approaches that work effectively-

as i tell folks the same way you don't become a jw by over night, you will not leave over night, it is a slow process

just think folks study for 6months to years- yes it is a Slow Roast technique the jw use on the person to get them in and get them in securely too-

so we have to walk them out in a slow manner as well

i believe that getting your family out IF you can by taking a different approach is well worth it

today my mom, dad, bro sister and some cousins are OUT , my inlaws, sister inlaw and some of my wife's cousins are out as well

it took us 8yrs i guess, but this past year we celebrated christmas as a family and we all cried at all the years and relatives we avoided all of these years

i have a cousin who is a very high ranking Petagon official in the Bush Adminstration- i never met him until christmas he is 42yrs old, all i knew about him was that over the years he was one of the Miltiary men that the birds were going to eat his eyes out during Armegedom

everyone in the family laughed when i related what i actually beleived about him- how sad

just my two

64

1975 - serves you right. No extra brownie points sycophants

by Spectrum in

this issue came up with my jw nephew(17).

i jumped at the chance at using it to prove that the org is a fraud but then the focus changed slightly.

i said, "do you know how many people's lives were disrupted by this event.

JT

"Spoken like a 17 year old , who has only read about this from the books, and is too young to have known what it was like at the time."

that was what i thought- as well,

it reminds me as a 43yr old man listening to Mr Johnson an old white man who lived in town who would come to school and relate to the class what it was like since he as There at pearl harbor when japan hit. we listened with attention but really didn't grasp the sheer terror he must have felt o yea we saw some pictures in the books showing how japan attacked, but it really doesn't sink in

well i know that in 40yrs from today when folks talk about 9-11 and look at the newsreels they will not grasp what it was like

i live here in washington dc and i recall that day so clearly, yet in 40yrs it will be a passing thought

and the same with jw who are today "17" yrs old-- what can one honestly expect for him to say- smile

51

I am stunned!!...CharitablePlanning

by sf in

jw
friends

i feel like i did when i first read ray's book crisis of conscience"; like i was punched deep in the gut and can't catch my breath.. i took someones suggestion here to call the: .

charitable planning office.

watchtower bible and tract society of pennsylvania.

JT

If you are a High Demand, Destructive, Abusive, Mind-Kontrol Kult, which is thoroughly Korrupt and EVIL, ... just what is it, that is "right" about it, that they do?
What?
What?
What?

###########

Well they do know how to make $$$$- i mean to have a 6million man/woman/ selling organization that works for Free, no retirement, etc

they got that Mind control thing down pretty good- smile

just messing with you