One wonders, Focus, why the JW-defenders have no reply.
Easy: Jehovah's Witnesses are a religion with form but no substance.
AlanF
jukief
JoinedPosts by jukief
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14
FOUL TRICKERY by the GREAT WHORE.
by Focus in***g93 3/22 5. a fable from india tells of six blind men from indostan who went to see an elephant.
the first one touched its side and said: 'bless me!
but the elephant is very like a wall!
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.....married with children
by sadiejive injust a few quick questions.... how did you who got out of "the truth" deal with having a spouse who is still involved?
what did you do about situations involving your children (such as holidays, birthdays, blood issue, religious upbringing, sports-ymca/karate)?.
since i am the "wife" i feel like i am in a doubly awkward position due to the "submission" issue.
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jukief
I left my JW husband at the same time I quit the dubs. Both were bad situations. I hope your marriage isn't in the state mine was.
My current husband tried to leave when he had a zealous JW wife (his first wife). He tried to stick it out in the marriage for quite a few years, but she made it evident that she didn't want to be his wife if he didn't plan to be a JW. Why put all that effort into someone who's going to die soon? They ended up divorcing.
I know people who have been successful in leaving the religion and maintaining a good marriage with a believing spouse, but I think it's a difficult thing to do. Since he believes he has the headship, your husband is going to try to control things like holidays, the blood issue, etc. Even if you don't want to display submission, it's difficult to buck a man who's intent on getting his own way. I hope you'll be able to reason with him and that he loves you enough to listen. You'll probably have to make compromises when it comes to raising the children, though.
I wish you luck. What you're going through certainly isn't easy.
Julie
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Going out with a bang
by LittleToe inafter much deliberation, i decided to go "out" at the end of a public talk.
it didn't go down too well, but at least i was able to give some of my reasons for leaving.. i've put some of the details on my homepage.
i'll update it more when i get the time and the strength.
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jukief
Do any of you know Doctor Bob? He had a beard for quite a while when he was an elder. The elders in his congregation couldn't have cared less, but the circuit overseer finally made a fuss about it. It's interesting that the other elders went to bat for him against the CO.
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What or who is the Faithful & Discreet Slave?
by SexyTeen ini know that most of you do not believe that the annointed remnant among jehovah's witnesses is the faithful & discreet slave.. so who is?
jesus did say that this slave (individual or class?
) would be feeding his sheep, so who is doing the job?
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jukief
Who cares?
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Who was to blame for the blunder of 1975?
by trykkleif inharmageddon was supposed to occur in the fall of 1975, but nothing happened.
who should have taken the blame?
the gb?
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jukief
I attended a special assembly held in Denver when Freddie graced us with his presence. He said from the platform that he expected the end in 1975. About 10,000 other people who were present also heard him say it.
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My wife's anxiety, guilt
by ashitaka inmy wife has been depressed each time we see our jw friends.
she doesn't want to see them anymore, because it reminds her of what she left behind, and it makes her feel bad.. i've offered to go back to meetings for a while to help her break away.
she never wants to go back, but her guilt and anger make her so uncomfortable around active jw's.....it's really bothering her.. any good books out there on breaking away from controlling organizations, especially concentrating on keeping the friendships but not the allegiance to the organization in question?
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jukief
Ashi,
About nine years ago, I went to the UU church one Sunday morning because a friend wanted to try out. Although I haven't been heavily involved (only because I'm lazy), I found that the UUs offer a lot of what JWs miss about being a Witness. If you and your wife are open to giving it a try, I suggest you look up your local UU church and drop by sometime. The UUs have a great feeling of comradery and common goals; they're very involved in community service, which would be a good thing for your wife, I think. Even though UUs have remarkedly different belief systems, they have one thing in common: They are searching for some kind of spirituality in their lives--whether it be through christianity or some other means--and they try to express that spirituality in their dealings with their fellow man. I should warn you, though, that UUs are liberal in their politics. That's one of the things I love about them, but if you tend to be conservative in your views, it might not be the right match for you.
I think volunteer work is a great way to make up for some of the feelings we had as JWs. Doing something for people less fortunate has a very healing effect. My mom has taken up volunteer work, and it's really helped with her depression since she lost her faith. It gives her something else to focus on and lets her interact with people.
Julie
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What is Jehovah's Will Today?
by SexyTeen ini have a quick question: what is jehovah's will today and who is doing it?
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jukief
There is no Jehovah, so he has no will. No one can carry out what doesn't exist.
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What's the latest on "The Danni X-Files&qu...
by Bendrr inlooks like it's just disappeared.
no more posts from danni.
no more posts from mymy.. just to add my own little tidbit here, has anyone heard of a park hills (or parkhill) congregation?
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jukief
Sorry to say this, Dave, but I think you can see now why I've said from early on what kind of person teejay is -- not terribly bright, but very interested in stirring up trouble over issues that everyone else agrees should be dead. I have no idea why he likes to stir up trouble, but he does it regularly. In my book that's a lot worse than a mere twit.
AlanF
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Memories of Duncan - Part 2 - The Tables Turn
by hillary_step innot long after a fifteen year old duncan had outraged his teachers and surprised his peers by leaving behind a promising academic career to regular pioneer and wash windows, a telegraph pole wearing green pants knocked at my door.
as i was expecting a visit from the local constabulary, for reasons noted below; the pole was a pleasant surprise.
the pole was a actually a jw, the plainest and longest man i had ever seen, with a mighty grin capable of felling empires and, i was to discover, also the possessor of a formidable intellect.
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jukief
Great stuff, Hillary! Keep it coming.
AlanF
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My Committment to JWD
by Amazing ini debated the wisdom of making this post.
i have made every effort to make it as neutral as possible to avoid personally offending anyone.
i may be losing my marbles here, but i feel that this needs to be said.
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jukief
Although I've followed this round of disagreements, I've kept out of it. But I would like to make a few comments. Take them or leave them, as you see fit.
I've been an active participant on the Internet since 1993--back in the days before the advent of the Web. So I have quite a few years of experience observing personalities and how people communicate in an electronic forum. And I've learned one thing: It's impossible to know someone well enough simply from reading his/her posts to made an informed decision about that person's true personality or motivations. Over the years, I've had the experience of reading people's posts, communicating with them extensively via email or telephone, and then eventually meeting them in person. I've found that, although I felt I got to know people fairly well via posts and email, it wasn't until I meet them and truly got to know them that I could partially begin to understand them.
I said "partially." Why? I've also found during my 47 years of life--30 in the organization and 17 out of it--that people are complex beings, and it's nearly impossible to pin labels on people or understand their true motivations. I'll give you a couple of examples of why I feel this way.
My little brother is an elder and circuit overseer in training. He and his wife have been regular pioneers for years; his only son just went to Bethel. He's a Nazi elder, which he's proved over the years by his actions. He starting shunning my sister and me more than 10 years ago based on the fact that we stopped attending meetings (we've never been DA'd or DF'd). He's refuses to participate in any family activities--including my parents' 50th anniversary--if my sister and I are in attendance. He's gone after people who weren't even in his congregation, in campaigns to get the "goods" on them and get them disfellowshipped. He has a reputation of being a hardliner, a mean bastard, an asshole. I've known him all 44 years of his life. I've observed him in almost every situation. I've had long talks with him. You would think that I'd be able to come to an informed conclusion about him--what personality type he has, what his motivations are, what makes him tick. But you'd be wrong. I honestly can't. My brother is a complex person; he's intelligent, but he's also had experiences and influences that I don't fully understand. My sister, my parents, and I have had long discussions trying to understand what makes him tick and figure out what he's going to do as the heat on the organization intensifies. None of us can do it. We simply don't know.
Here's my second example. My first real job--after 11 years as a housewife (I got married as soon as I graduated from high school)--was a glazier in a busy commercial glass shop. I was an experiment, the first woman glazier in town. My boss was a guy named Lane (my father, who also worked at the glass shop, used to say, "When you know Lane, you know pain."). Lane's nickname around the shop was "Gabby" and it fit him perfectly. The man never shut up. He was the most obnoxious person I'd ever met, in ways that are difficult to explain. Hardly anyone in the shop liked him; in fact, most people went out of their way to avoid him. But I was stuck with him; he was my boss, and he took great delight in following me around and critiquing everything I did. Finally, after putting up with him for a month, I told him that he was obnoxious--quite a step for me, because I'm not a confrontational person and never say things like that to people. He took it pretty well, and I could see that he made an effort to be more likable. But he couldn't change the fact that he was Lane. As time went on, however, I started to see a different side to him. He was a giving person who went out of his way to do things for people. When I moved to Fort Collins to start school, he arranged for the rental of my moving truck (got me a sizeable discount), came over and loaded the entire truck, and then drove it up to Fort Collins for me because my dad's back was bothering him too much to drive. He unloaded on the other end and drove the truck the back (a 400-mile round trip). He gave up his whole weekend to do this for us. What I discovered from knowing Lane is that people can appear to be a certain way, and that aspect of their personality might be so overwhelming that it obscures other things about them. The secret of getting to know and appreciate people is to look past their shortcomings and focus on their good points. After many years of knowing Lane, I came to understand why he acted the way he did, and I was able to develop a genuine liking for him.
This board has a real mix of people from a lot of different backgrounds. And each one of us comes here carrying a lot of baggage. Whether we like it (or admit it) or not, that baggage colors the way we see things and the way we react to people. Have you ever met someone and instantly taken a dislike to them? I have, and several times I realized later that I disliked the person because he/she reminded me of someone I didn't like or had had a bad experience with. I think that often happens. We all have experiences in our lives that cause us to react to stimuli in different ways. The person I might take an instant dislike to might be the same person someone else finds delightful and endearing; we'd have a hard time understanding each others' impressions.
All I can say is that we need to give each other the benefit of a doubt. Most of us have suffered through some extremely difficult circumstances, and we need to be patient and understanding with each other. And we certainly shouldn't judge others' motives and personalities based merely on participation in this unrealistic forum.
One last comment and then I'll shut up. Back in 1993, when I first got involved in the internet, I met some great people--some of them, like Alan, Marilyn, Kent, JanH, Norm, Ginny, and others--participate on this board. There weren't many of us ex-JW internet participants in those days, and we all formed friendships that endure to this day. We all wrote each other so often that we finally started a cc list, which evolved into a listserve that we named philia. For a while it was a delightful place. We have lively, interesting discussions. No one attacked anyone else. We allowed each other our foibles and differences of opinion; we were able to discuss controversial subjects without calling each other names or making personal attacks. But then philia started to change. We lost control of who joined, and soon the list had hundreds of people on it. People argued and sniped at each other; it was not a pleasant place. Eventually, every single one of the founding members left the group.
For some reason, this seems to happen in every large internet community, and it happens here. That's one of the reasons I don't participate much; I don't like name calling, judgements, and personal attacks. For that reason, I've limited my participation in this forum and will continue to do so. I prefer to get to know people on a one-by-one basis. I've found too often that internet personas aren't a true representation of people's personalities.