that's right, nothing.. you get struck on the cheek and you pony up for the other slap.. your pray for the enemy who wants you face down in the mud with his heel on your neck.. you get treated like pond scum and force a smile and forgive.. abused?
forgive and forget.. need help desperately?
when nothing happens, chalk it up to your unworthiness and lack of faith.. .
what is going to happen to western civilization when Christianity has been replaced
Well it's already happening in many countries in the world, and highest percentage of countries that are the most peaceful on the planet, are the countries that have the lowest percentage of religious followers. You're argument is nothing short of a fanatical stance to soothe the ego of a believer.
for atheists and strong agnostics (those who believe that we cannot know about god if he exists):.
i am posting this thread because i think it greatly help myself (and other christian believers) to better understand your beliefs and your viewpoints, if you posted a short (or long) summary of what the reasons and basis are for your not believing that there is a god, or for believing that we cannot know god if he exists.. you can include arguments against god, against the bible, against the christian interpretations of the bible, etc.. you can include scientific evidence that you believe contradicts the bible, or contradicts the existence of a god/creator/designer.. christians believers: you are welcome to post counter-arguments, or summaries for why you believe in god/creator/designer or why you believe in the bible or the christian interpretations of the bible.. i also thought it might be good to link to another lively thread we had on this website a while back: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/175688/1/god-morals-and-atheists.
when you include your reasons for why you don't believe in god or the bible, or why you do believe in god or the bible, please include at least a little bit of the evidence (or link to the evidence) that backs up your statement.. for example, it doesn't do much good to claim "evolution is false" and just leave it at that, or on the other hand, to say "the bible is full of scientific errors" and just leave it at that.. here are two threads i posted where i explained the reasons why i personally believe in god and the bible:.
Here I will just address the christian god side of things, but the principles can be used for any god that has ever existed within the human brain.
Everything we know about god or jesus, we got from the bible. Without the bible, the jesus myth would have died out long ago.
The bible itself contains inferior knowledge to what we now know about our planet and solar system. Eg. the luminaries in genesis , one for day and one for night. We know the moon is not a source of light, it's a reflects it. Joshua asking for the sun to stand still and god did...the earth moves not the sun. The earth is not a circle but a sphere, and the hebrew language had a word for sphere, which was duwr (ball - a ball is always a sphere without exception), but in the bible the word used is chuwg (which is a circle like in a compass or coin). The history of the israelites is fictitious and emormous embellishments. That's only a couple of things in the old testament which show there was no divine direction in the writing - not even mentioning the laws.
Jesus is a different ball game in the fact that there is not one shred of contemporary physical evidence of his existence. The gospels are not a witness to him as they were written decades after his supposed death and historians and scholars have no idea who wrote them. The gospels didn't exist during the alleged life of Jesus nor did any of the authors make the claim to have met an earthly jesus. The gospels are nothing but hearsay and cannot be used as any form of evidence of truth. Also the fact that the gospels were written almost virtually in the thrid person. People who wish to portray themselves as eyewtinesses will write in the first person. Many of the passages attributed the jesus were the invention of the authors as many passages relate to things said when he was alone and even thought, the same techniques that fictional writers used. At best the gospels are hearsay, and at worst, as fictional, mythological, or falsified stories.
There is not one contemporary extra biblical account of jesus to be found anywhere. Jesus was apparently famous throughout the region, by preists, roman governor pilate, even herod. Yet no one even mentions a thing. No preaching, no trouble maker causing problems, no trial, no execution, no eclipse, no earthquake. Nothing outside the bible.
The "evidence" believers use for the existence of jesus is even less credible than the "evidence" the ancient greeks had for believing in Hercules, yet Hercules is dismissed. Hercules had a lot more written about him than jesus ever did. So why the double standard? It doesn't make sense.
When it comes to god(s), people believe what they want to believe and their god is whatever they want him, her or it to be. No evidence required, just what they feel and interperet. There was actually a study done using an mri machine I think, I wish I could find it now, but they did a study on the god part of the brain, but asking people what god wanted of them, and the part of the brain that is active during asking and answering that question, is the same part of the brain that is active when asking what they themselves want. Just a little extra info.
I think I've rambled on enough. I could go on more but this is just a small part of the reason I now find it completely illogical to believe in any god without real demonstrable evidence, same with santa, dragons, mermaids, medusa, fairies, unicorns.
egg and i were treated out to dinner three times last weekend by out of state visiting relatives.
just found out last night that they don't believe in tipping, at all!
we suggested the places to eat and frequent those places ourselves.
I'm with Oz on this. Since tipping is rare here in Australia we do find tipping jars in some establishments.
I shouted my mum, stepadad and sister to chinese the other week, bill came to $120, they had a tipping jar so I just put in a $20 as I left. It actually makes me happy to show appreciation for good service. I tend to treat restaurant staff with the same appreciation I would show to a friend who had invited me over for a meal.
Tipping may cost a little bit, but courtesy costs nothing.
that's right, nothing.. you get struck on the cheek and you pony up for the other slap.. your pray for the enemy who wants you face down in the mud with his heel on your neck.. you get treated like pond scum and force a smile and forgive.. abused?
forgive and forget.. need help desperately?
when nothing happens, chalk it up to your unworthiness and lack of faith.. .
Harry Potter rocks. Go Griffindor Gang!!!!!!!
most of us either when exiting the witnesses or after exiting have certain beliefs/practices that bothered us so much we could not suport this organization anymore.
what were your breaking points ?
here were a few of mine :.
Definite agreement with your top 5. These are some extras for me.
1. The bible is the word of god.
2. That we are born sinful deserving of death.
3. Satan and his demons are out to get you.
4. Obedience to the governing body without question.
5. Their teachings in regards to science.
I also detest their view of "worldly" people.
that's right, nothing.. you get struck on the cheek and you pony up for the other slap.. your pray for the enemy who wants you face down in the mud with his heel on your neck.. you get treated like pond scum and force a smile and forgive.. abused?
forgive and forget.. need help desperately?
when nothing happens, chalk it up to your unworthiness and lack of faith.. .
Good explanation Zid.
Christianity also gives you an excuse for illogical thinking and reasoning.
my thread here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/197200/5/atheists-do-you-ever-talk-to-god has taken a decidedly new twist.
one that has made me think it prudent to discuss a related matter.. would the world be a better place if all atheism was gone?
would it be a better place if all religion were gone?
Slavery was lawful and slaves were regarded as property. Even if a slave was treated as part of the family, they were still property. That in itself is inhumane.
Jesus spoke out against many things regarding how the laws were being kept. He went around teaching, that's what he did. He predominantely spoke about love and spoke out against the jewish system yet never mentioned that owning another human being is not showing love. Slavery is a HUGE issue. The silence in the NT is what allowed slavery to continue for so long and led to the suffering of so many people.
"[Slavery] was established by decree of Almighty God...it is sanctioned in the Bible, in both Testaments, from Genesis to Revelation...it has existed in all ages, has been found among the people of the highest civilization, and in nations of the highest proficiency in the arts." Jefferson Davis, President, Confederate States of America
"the right of holding slaves is clearly established in the Holy Scriptures, both by precept and example." Rev. R. Furman, D.D., a Baptist pastor from South Carolina.
"I give my daughter, Joyce Falkner , present wife of John Falkner, of the county of Fayette and State of Virginia, a negro girl by name of Gemima otherwise called Mima. I give her to the above Joyce together with said Mima's increase forever and for the only use of the said Joyce , to will and dispose of as to her seemeth fit, hereby revoking all other claims of right or title to the said Gemima aliasMima of her increase forever." The 1791 will of Toliver Craig, disposing of his assets (and children of his assets) in the event of his death.
An all powerful god would easily have already seen the immorality in slavery and what would be the result of silence on this matter to allow his followers to continue to believe that owning another person is okay and of no real importance. And the fact that it is justified is sickening. He was supposedly teaching people how to be kind and loving to others yet left out a monumentally important thing.
This is one reason why religious beliefs (especially those based on ancient texts) are dangerous and down right stupid. These ancient texts and the characters in them, were written by people ingorant of the world around them and were part of a culture that by todays standards, parts of would be considered immoral.
Our lives begin to end when we are silent about things that matter because when we become silent, our lives are not ours anyomore. We allow them to be controlled.
Those who would sacrifice freedom for temporary security deserve neither. -- Ben Franklin
Wiser words than anything these ancient texts spew out.
my thread here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/197200/5/atheists-do-you-ever-talk-to-god has taken a decidedly new twist.
one that has made me think it prudent to discuss a related matter.. would the world be a better place if all atheism was gone?
would it be a better place if all religion were gone?
Oo, it worked. Thanks Zid.
my thread here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/197200/5/atheists-do-you-ever-talk-to-god has taken a decidedly new twist.
one that has made me think it prudent to discuss a related matter.. would the world be a better place if all atheism was gone?
would it be a better place if all religion were gone?
Damn, don't know what happened. I guess just have to read in one column.
my thread here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/197200/5/atheists-do-you-ever-talk-to-god has taken a decidedly new twist.
one that has made me think it prudent to discuss a related matter.. would the world be a better place if all atheism was gone?
would it be a better place if all religion were gone?
Hopefully it's fixed now.
Slavery was lawful and slaves were regarded as property. Even if a slave was treated as part of the family, they were still property. That in itself is inhumane.
Jesus spoke out against many things regarding how the laws were being kept. He went around teaching, that's what he did. He predominantely spoke about love and spoke out against the jewish system yet never mentioned that owning another human being is not showing love. Slavery is a HUGE issue. The silence in the NT is what allowed slavery to continue for so long and led to the suffering of so many people.
"[Slavery] was established by decree of Almighty God...it is sanctioned in the Bible, in both Testaments, from Genesis to Revelation...it has existed in all ages, has been found among the people of the highest civilization, and in nations of the highest proficiency in the arts." Jefferson Davis, President, Confederate States of America
"The right of holding slaves is clearly established in the Holy Scriptures, both by precept and example." Rev. R. Furman, D.D., a Baptist pastor from South Carolina.
"I give my daughter, Joyce Falkner, present wife of John Falkner, of the county of Fayette and State of Virginia, a negro girl by name of Gemima otherwise called Mima. I give her to the above Joyce together with said Mima's increase forever and for the only use of the said Joyce, to will and dispose of as to her seemeth fit, hereby revoking all other claims of right or title to the said Gemima alias Mima of her increase forever." The 1791 will of Toliver Craig, disposing of his assets (and children of his assets) in the event of his death.
An all powerful god would easily have already seen the immorality in slavery and what would be the result of silence on this matter to allow his followers to continue to believe that owning another person is okay and of no real importance. And the fact that it is justified is sickening. He was supposedly teaching people how to be kind and loving to others yet left out a monumentally important thing. There was nothing stopping him from, at the very least, teaching his followers that owning another human being is unethical and so to be his followers they were to not regard other human beings as property as that is not loving.
This is one reason why religious beliefs (especially those based on ancient texts) are dangerous and down right stupid. These ancient texts and the characters in them, were written by people ingorant of the world around them and were part of a culture that by todays standards, parts of would be considered immoral.
Our lives begin to end when we are silent about things that matter because when we become silent, our lives are not ours anyomore. We allow them to be controlled.
Those who would sacrifice freedom for temporary security deserve neither. -- Ben Franklin
Wiser words than anything these ancient texts spew out.
