JWinSF

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Posts by JWinSF

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  20

  We must defeat shunning

  by joelbear in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  shunning is really what the watchtower society is all about.. every religion has moral codes, doctrines, taboos, etc.. it is the deliberate psychological manipulation of people through social sanction that makes jehovah's witnesses different than any other religion.. yes, other religious people shun people but only witnesses institutionalize shunning.. it must be defeated.. joel

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  JWinSF

  My experience is that it doesn't work.

  I openly talked with my closest JW friend after I DAd. She went along for a while until she got migraines from the stress from the inner conflict that was set up. She also had sent in a gift subscription to "Awake!" for me, but got into trouble for doing so. Similarly I've approached other JWs I've known, only to have them "flee" because they didn't know how to deal with talking with "apostates". I tried repeatedly to keep up communication with my JW aunt and uncle, also to no avail. What's that they say about "three strikes and you're out"?

  So, as for me, trying to beat the shunner by not buying into the practice is not effective. And, that's OK for me. It's their loss, not mine. "With friends like those, who needs enemies." Good riddance to bad rubbish.
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  20

  We must defeat shunning

  by joelbear in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  shunning is really what the watchtower society is all about.. every religion has moral codes, doctrines, taboos, etc.. it is the deliberate psychological manipulation of people through social sanction that makes jehovah's witnesses different than any other religion.. yes, other religious people shun people but only witnesses institutionalize shunning.. it must be defeated.. joel

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  JWinSF

  Hi Joel,

  Shunning is the ultimate tool, but not the only tool, used by a cult to hold its members in line. However, I don't believe that it is possible to undo it as part of the JWs theology. It's one of the many tactics the cult uses very effectively to hold its members in line.

  I believe that the only way that you'd ever see any movement away from it would be to have a "reform" movement of JWs who basically say "we're mad as Hell, and we aren't going to take it anymore." Of course, that will lead to the dissenting group being "shunned". But, at least they could move away from shunning. However, there will always be staunch adherents to the "orthodox" JW style who will not budge. It works for them. [Admittedly, in a distorted, antiseptic approach to life.]

  I believe that this schism will actually take place in a relatively short period of time. With the Internet's wealth of information exposing the JW serious weaknesses, the most probable TV expose of their hidden child abuse, and more people just starting to talk and question it just has to fall from its perch [we can already see the cracks in the foundation among the declining western world membership].

  But, sadly, I believe that shunning will always remain part of the theology for the orthodox few remaining.
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  43

  Maybe we are evil

  by joelbear in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the question keeps coming up here.. how could we have ever been a part of something so evil and sinister as the watchtower society?.

  maybe its because we are evil.. joel

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  JWinSF

  Being intrinsically evil is the same [IMO] crock of shit as "original sin".

  As for me, nope, not evil, nor "born in sin", just one who was hood-winked by a cult. And cults can catch ANYBODY in their clutches.
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  4

  Things are looking up

  by joelbear in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  but things aren't so bad.

  i only have to work 13 hours today.. can somebody rub my feet?.

  one of you cute ones preferably.

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  JWinSF

  Just got done doing four weeks of 10 - 12 hour days, 5 - 6 days a week. Whoosh! Glad it's over. Now, I feel kinda strange having so much "extra time" on my hands. But, I'll quickly relearn how to use it.

  Hope you have some relief in the near future.

  Toodles,
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  42

  Homosexuality and Social Policy

  by Perry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  post jw life requires us to think as members of the larger society as we look at issues from the perspective of a member of a participatory government.

  unlike jw life, we get to have a say in what kind of life we experience for ourselves and our children.

  i will present a series of issues that require our judgment, that we as former jehovahs witnesses were prevented in having a say in and may not have ever given much thought to.

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  JWinSF

  I remember the study. It was done, I believe, in the early to mid 90s. What wasn't clear to me was whether or not the study really delved into if the supposedly "straight" identical twin actually was attracted to the opposite sex [straight orientation] or if the identical twin merely had sex with a person of the opposite sex or abstained from sex with someone of the same sex [straight behavior].

  To equate sexual behavior with sexual orientation is not appropriate. There have been many gay men and women who have gone into straight relationships merely because of societal pressures. The end result usually has been an eventual divorce when the person can no longer keep up the charade. A person can force themselves into straight sexual behavior, but actually be gay in orientation.

  So, just because the stats showed about 1 in 2 identical twins being gay does not to me prove the point that their straight sibling was really straight. They may have been merely suppressing their sexual orientation due to societal pressure to "make them straight" or to "appear straight". If anything, I believe that there is strong reason to believe that the straight acting half of the identical twins in the study may actually have been suppressing their gay orientation due to societal pressures, rather than the gay half having been influenced to be gay due to societal pressures.

  As for me, I know that I was born gay. I never had any of the typical "cause and effect" touted by fundamentalists to make me gay. For example, I never had knowlingly associated with other known gays, never had any sexual experiences with gays, had a father present at home up to age 16 who took an active interest in me, I grew up pre-Stonewall where everything was anti-gay in attitude, etc. In short, I should have grown up straight. Yet, from the time that I was first sexually aware, I was drawn to men, not women. It took me until age 45 to finally "wake up" and recognize that I'd been born gay.
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  41

  Get Out More / Questionaire.

  by Englishman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  is it true that americans are the least travelled people in the world?

  if that is the case, its hardly surprising when you read all the dire warnings contained inside a us passport.

  also, i am told that americans regard the rest of the world as a very dangerous place to be.

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  JWinSF

  From the USA, and, internationally, only Canada [Ontario and Quebeck] and Australia [Queensland]. However, within the USA:

  Arizona
  California
  Connecticut
  Florida
  Georgia
  Illinois
  Louisianna
  Maryland
  Minnesota
  New Mexico
  New York
  Ohio
  Pennsylvania
  Texas

  These I've actually stayed for days/weeks in. In addition, have traveled through many more States, but not more than an overnight stay while en route to a particular destination.

  For me, it's not a fear of going to another many other countries, just never have gotten around to making the time to do so.
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  52

  Raymond Franz's Betrayal

  by IslandWoman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  thanks for calling this to my attention.

  my reason for not wanting book material to be run on certain web sites is purely because of finding their approach out of harmony with my own principles and standards, so many are engaged in watch tower trashing and extremely negative.

  some sites present material that promotes agnosticism and distrust of the scriptures, even atheism (one such site being in scandanavia).

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  JWinSF

  I personally feel that both are "A-OK". I read Raymond's books in 1994. In late 1993 I was starting to plan disassociating due to my sexual orientation. However, I fully believed everything else about the JW theology. When I read Raymond's books, I was [1] impressed with the amount of information that exposed the Organization for being basically untruthful and [2] pleased that it took a non-confrontational approach. In fact, had Raymond come down sarcastically or very negatively [instead, he merely presented irrefutable, documented proof to back everything up] I probably would have rethought disassociating.

  In 1996 or 1997 I came across Kent's site and thought it was equally good. While it comes across much more "in your face", again, the information is forthright and irrefutable, at least from what I've seen on the site. I also owe Kent a debt of gratitude. When I asked him to put up something on his site about gays/lesbians, he graciously devoted an entire section to us and our support group. And, he did this even though he took strong criticism from the fundamentalist based ex-JWs. I don't think that if Raymond had a website, that he'd do the same thing for our group.

  So, I can see from Raymond's point of view why he would not want to have his information on Kent's site. It doesn't lower my high regard for either individual. Both have served a great purpose in helping other hurt JWs and ex-JWs into a healing process.
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  17

  Ex JW Support Group - any suggestions?

  by Beck_Melbourne in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i just thought i'd put this to the multitude and invite your suggestions or some feedback, as i am thinking about forming a support group for ex jw people in my area.

  my motive is based on my own experience when exiting the borg...and how isolated and lonely i felt when i left.

  i was lucky enough to have one family member who had left the borg a few years before me.

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  JWinSF

  I disassociated in March 1994 by letter and simultaneously started advertising to form a support group in San Francisco. The group I was forming was gay/lesbian focused. However, four months after I started the group, another group formed in Marin County [just across the Golden Gate Bridge from San Francisco] which was for ex-JWs who wanted to get together. It was gay/lesbian friendly. In fact, the opening guidelines from day one for the group was that different individuals go onto different spiritual paths, some may be homosexual, etc., and that the group was open to all. So, it depends upon what you want the focus to be.

  Some who leave the JWs do so because they disagree with the Biblical theology. These often afterwards affiliate with other fundamentalist view point focused groups/people. As such, these groups basically will not accept anyone with warm, open hands who are not also following the same theological viewpoints.

  Others leave the JWs for non-theological reasons. For example, they see the hypocrisy, they smoked, their sexual orientation, etc. Oftentimes, these individuals do not agree with a fundamentalist Christian viewpoint. In fact, some of these individuals turn away from anything remotely Christian.

  My experience with the group in Marin [now also in Fremont, CA] is that those who've attended who have fundamentalist viewpoints without exception quickly condemn the group for being so open. They also want to get into theological discussions, like John 1:1.

  So, it's all up to you as to which way you wish to proceed as to the focus of the group. On Randy Watters site there is a page that focuses on the availale groups for ex-JWs. You may want to look at that and get some additional ideas. The link is: http://www.exjws.net/supportgroups.htm

  I hope this helps.
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  7

  Gay ex JWs in Sydney, Australia

  by AussieMark in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hello to everyone of course.... i am particularly interested in contacting any gay ex jws in the sydney, australia area....for support and socializing..... love the humour you all have...i have just returned from the united states.. mark b

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  JWinSF

  Howdy Mark,

  Missed you in DC in January. I heard from "the friends" from Minneapolis [LOL] that you were in transit just about the time that we had our get together.

  Coming to New Orleans? Hope so.

  Toodles,
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  37

  For those who've left - any regrets?

  by starfish422 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i left almost nine years ago at age 18; my only real regret was that i was good friends with a young brother and i never said goodbye to him, or even let him know that i was planning to leave (had to leave my parents' home secretly while they were at the meeting one sunday; they had such a hold over me that i could never have stood up to them and told them beforehand).

  .

  i have no other regrets about leaving; i'm am now happily agnostic and so thankful that i found the strength to break free.. anyone have any similar regrets?

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  JWinSF

  I DAd 8 years ago. I've not regretted it. The "friends" that I lost I still consider as my friends, even though they won't have anything to do with me. I'd be there if the need came up for assistance [except financial, Dubz have been known to go to anyone for money and will rationalize going to an ex-JW --- particularly if it's a family member].

  Glad to be free of the mind-control, the boring meetings, the ineffective and [for me] unpleasant field service, having to "like people" in the Congregation that I didn't respect.

  Glad to be able to reach my own conclusions on matters, not what some lame-brains in Brooklyn dish up, be able to like people who I previously wasn't allowed to like, free to do what I want, when I want, with people that I want to be around.

  One doesn't really realize the stangle-hold the religion has until separated from it and finally look at it from a dispassionate, critical, observing frame of mind. Then, one sees that the "Emperor's clothes" for what they are.