Posts by pubtruth

2

The Woman/Bride of Christ

by pubtruth in

probably a dumb question, but then again it probably has a dumb answer.. in genesis 3:15:.

"and i shall put enmity between you and the woman and between your seed and her seed.

he will bruise you in the head and you will bruise him in the heel.. .

The Woman/Bride of Christ

by pubtruth in

probably a dumb question, but then again it probably has a dumb answer.. in genesis 3:15:.

"and i shall put enmity between you and the woman and between your seed and her seed.

he will bruise you in the head and you will bruise him in the heel.. .

pubtruth

Probably a dumb question, but then again it probably has a dumb answer.

In Genesis 3:15:

"And I shall put enmity between you and the woman and between your seed and her seed. He will bruise you in the head and you will bruise him in the heel.”

and in other verses, rendered as Bride, etc. Where does the WT get their definition that the Bride of Christ is the 144,000 that go to heaven/Organization? Is it implicitly rendered in another verse I can not remember now?

9

Saving myself from getting dunked, how did I get here?

by pubtruth in

this is my personal experience with this sad cult, which i want so out of.

it's quite a read, so if you're up for it, grab a drink and follow along... it's something very different from what ive read on here before.. .

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pubtruth

Thank you all for the kind words, and support. Quite the contrast from what Witchtower Babble & Trick Society puts you out to all be. The “Zelder” called me this morning, I quickly picked it up on the first ring. He called me for another matter, since I’m the congregation tech wiz, (more the reason to get me on board fast so I could do sound, and work the bulletin board :$) he’d be calling me often for help with computer issues. Once I helped him out he asked me “How are things, when are they going to start the questions?” I simply told him what happened, I was called back into the conf. room, asked about my goals, and what I was doing currently felt lacking and the elders agreed it just wasn’t my time. The line went silent for some odd seconds, his tone of voice totally changed “Oh well, yeah, keep working on that then, there’s always next assembly (3 months away, habits die hard…)” “Yeah…” (Rolling my eyes).. The call fell on itself rather quickly after that.

I have not felt happier for about 2 years! I bought myself more time, to eventually remove myself from everything Watchtower. Though the questioning again is inevitable, I will just have to tell him, it’s my own personal business, I’ll decide on my own terms. It’s my own life… Like my mother told me “Your salvation is personal” She has some doubts of her own, the disfellowshipping arrangement, and the Holy Spirit guiding the elders in their decisions. She has faith in Jehovah, but she is seeing the hypocrites in the hall, and some things from the “slave” that does not make sense. Yet she still marches on, and was looking forward to my baptismal. She has a story of her own, I may share it, in due time, which was also a catalyst to my stress and wanting out.

The study with this “Zelder” is no longer a factor, to my belief… I gobbled up “Teach” (twice, each time with a separate brother) and “God’s Love”. We ran out of material and we started on “Young People Ask, v.2” … Which was my most excruciating, as it’s not question and answer and basically had to make up my “bible conscious” opinion, while I in fact believed the total opposite. So I’m sure he thinks I’m capable of doing my own personal study… (I’ll be doing more productive things, thank you)

Specific Replies:

It's clear from what you write that you see through the Watchtower...or at least, it certainly sounds like that.

It’s been like that my whole life, being born in, but always doubting. I’ve been on the fence and almost fell over to their side.

There is no law that says you have to do what your parents do and believe what you've been told to believe, and you're not baptised so you can't be DF'd with all that entails.

You are right, I’m lucky to not have gone deeper into the grunge. I would still have my family, and fully regain my cousins which I had cut off ties with (they are DF’d) Just another reason to not dedicate myself to the publishing cult. They just add up to the sky…

It sounds like you need to learn the inter-personal lesson that YOU can control boundaries with other people. Until you control the boundaries, other people (especially cult recruiters) will walk all over you.

I’ve been brought up as an arse-kisser. Baby-steps, I’m starting to make my stand.

To this elder, you can always say, "I was reviewing the baptism questions and I do not want to be baptised to an Organization. It's too, well, cultish for my personal tastes. I honor you as a long-time friend of mine, but the closer I get to baptism the more misgivings I have about the Organization. I hope that we can remain friends, as I did enjoy your company. If you'dl ike to go fishing or meet for a beer in a few months, that would be great." ...... Then, if he really keeps up at pressuring you, "Please put me on the 'do not call' list."

Believe me; I would so love to pull out the cult card right on their face. But my whole family is in and I’m not looking forward to getting called an apostate just yet. Especially after how highly this “Zelder” thought of me… He wanted me to regular pioneer!! HAH!

6

who's got some good stories about indiscretions in the KH or some other "sacred " house of Jah?

by Momma-Tossed-Me in

pubtruth

A Brother had a portion during the announcements, apparently was handed the wrong info, he cursed an elder out and left the hall. Disfellowshipped the next meeting.

9

Saving myself from getting dunked, how did I get here?

by pubtruth in

this is my personal experience with this sad cult, which i want so out of.

it's quite a read, so if you're up for it, grab a drink and follow along... it's something very different from what ive read on here before.. .

[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:officedocumentsettings> <o:allowpng /> </o:officedocumentsettings> </xml><!

pubtruth

This is my personal experience with this sad cult, which I want so out of. It's quite a read, so if you're up for it, grab a drink and follow along... It's something very different from what Ive read on here before.

I regretfully became a publisher, I really didn’t want to, I was basically waking up and smelling the truth about the truth. But being born-in, and having a super-zealous elder giving me study, it just made me go ahead with it. Just to avoid deception from brothers and sisters I had formed bonds with. I started at 2 hours a month; many of those months were in fact, fictitious… I managed to get away with it until elders about 6 months later took me under their wing and pretty much “forced” me to go with them out in service. I say forced because who could say no to people I considered close, one of them actually admitting I was like a son to him, as he knew me since very little. I learned to somewhat enjoy field service, but mostly for the company of friends, more than knocking on doors bugging people.

I became a publisher not long after graduating high school. I had a mostly normal HS experience. I was free to befriend anyone, it was all good, and my mother overlooked that aspect of my life greatly. I’m thankful; I’d probably be in worse shape if it weren’t for an extra set of “worldly” friends I still keep in contact with for some sane free bound conversation!

Anyway, I kept studying with that elder, and about that time I met what would be my best friend for some time, or so I thought... (Bear with me as this ties-in to my ultimate decision of canceling my baptism) A well respected pioneer in the congregation, we had fun together, we went to movies. All what typical friends would do. He would hang out at my place, and so forth. At the same time I was leading a double life as a gay teen, which was what got me doubting the Watchtower in the first place, with its critical context against homosexuals. I was involved in a gay relationship with another man and well, I did act upon what nature DID give me. Nobody found out, and within 6 months we encountered some differences and decided to call it quits. Within some more months I fell in love with my pioneer best friend (actually developing all along). I was bashing my head against the wall because it was for sure a no-go. I became stressed, and I just wanted to scream but I couldn’t per the repercussions such thing might bring. I couldn’t stop catching a glimpse at him while he read the Watchtower on the platform, or when he read the Book Study, or just simply hanging out with him. He was a beautifully dressed guy with the charm to make someone’s heart race.

Meanwhile, time had passed, my ministry had gone up a few hours, that zealous elder moved to a congregation in need nearby but still proceeded with my study. He started pummeling me with the same line, pretty much every two weeks “When are you getting baptized?”… I always followed up with soon, or just remained silent and heard his counsel that we are near the end, and that I needed to be marked with Jehovah’s seal. This just added to the boiling pot of milk about to spill over. I finally told him… “Okay, I’m considering the Circuit Assembly coming up” he followed up with telling me to make sure it was coming from the heart. I later stepped down and said “Got to work on my ministry”… A lie, my hours remained the same, nothing changed.

One fateful night I was conversing with my pioneer friend about our lives, when I broke it to him, that I had gay feelings. He was supportive and kindly told me to go to the elders. I told him no, he offered to go with me, I declined. And he pulled the “bloodguilt” card, so I said “Okay, I will tell them” (I didn’t technically have to at all since I didn’t tell him I had sex, they were barely feelings, and as far as I know, being gay itself isn’t an offense that would cause DF/revoking of publishing) I lied, and this remained between us two. Our friendship remained unscathed, until we fell into one of those deep conversations once again many months later. My mind leaped a step and I typed out “I cannot hold it in any longer, I love you, you are my everything” hitting the enter key in one fell swoop. After a pause (I was shaking, pale) I received this “Bro, you need help. I’m going to talk to an elder, ttyl”… I felt dead. I almost tried to harm myself. He texted me the next day to let me know that he had told an elder, all I could do is curse him out. As he had broken a trust we supposedly had. A simple declination would have done, but as a good kiss-ass to the Watchtower, he went and ratted me out, and that was the end of it, the end of a friendship. There I found out the thick air of conditionality, bigotry, and hypocrisy breathed within the confines of a windowless Kingdom Hall. He would not talk to me again. Eventually he moved to serve another congregation. Reasons not related to me. One thing I thank him for though… He blew my eyes wide open to the Lie™… The elders never approached me, since, well there was no sin involved. Just feelings.. Though the news got out to a few believed-to-be friends. With time the guy was nice enough to shut up everyone talking smack about me. But only when I went to him and asked for resolve.Things remain the same with him though.

Well, District Convention nearing, I was posed a question about baptism again. I was stressed, no job, no school, nothing… Just the cult... I just went with it, grabbed an Organized book and started leafing through it... I didn’t finally talk to the elders until two weeks ago, after so much f***ing pressure from the zealous prick elder. Who’s not even in my congregation anymore and should’ve handed me over to someone back home. I stopped answering calls and he would pop up at home uninvited, cars obviously present, had to answer, and give the excuse that my phone was busted, and that I talked to an elder, but nothings getting done.. [Well then talk to the COBE]... Whatever, and he would leave... Eventually I was about to go for it... Little pubtruth had decided to get dunked, just to get brothers, sisters, elders, family off his hair. I got called back to the Star Chamber. I was red, with a migraine. An elder in relaxed posed told me, “Hey relax, you’re not in trouble” (same elder who knows that I had the gay feelings)... I started winding down, but not letting my guard down. They both brought out their Organized books along with bibles, asked me what were my goals. I sheepishly said “To serve Jehovah, better my ministry”… They were happy and nodded in agreement. (One of them, the secretary was well aware of my hours) They went through the basics of the procedures to get me dunked. After some back and forth, questions like my prayer frequency, personal study. I told them I was lacking. THERE I wiggled myself out. “That’s good my brother, keep working on that. And don’t worry too much, assemblies are always around the corner!” Conversation lasted a good 30-45 mins, It was sunset time and I was dying of hunger… Once I got out I felt like leaping of joy. I told my mother on the ride home, she felt saddened. But as they say, it’s a personal decision ;) … Now my plan would be finally getting a job (it’s been quite impossible), get to college… Pretty much preoccupy myself with things so I don’t have time for anything relating to the cult, vanish and make my move to an independent life, as I am already getting into my 20s.

One question remains. When that zealous elder comes back, how should I break the news that I’m not dunking this assembly (to let it drop slowly) ? There’s no way to avoid him he will get in touch with me however he can. Should I tell him how it went in the meeting? How would I kindly tell him it’s a personal decision and he shouldn’t butt in every chance he gets?

Sorry all for the massive read!

29

Most entertaining platform misdeed.

by Slidin Fast in

many years ago before assembly halls we used to hire large halls for circuit assemblies.

the public talk, always after lunch on the sunday was always the big (though boring) event.

the chairman sat on the stage all the time whilst the speaker for the hour long talk droned on.

pubtruth

I got two for y'all

One of these happened at the start of the public talk. The song and prayer was over and the elder holding the meeting walked back up to the podium and said while we were all standing "You may all now stand up as we welcome you to our public talk" You could hear the snears and giggles all over, puzzled looks by old sisters, as we all sat down.

An elder got carried away once with one of the service meeting parts and went beyond the time specified. There was still a part to go and the elder assigned jumped from his seat and ran, leaping the steps to the platform, almost gasping for air at the podium. I was red trying to hold in laughter, everyone else was droned out because they were too tired to notice.

21

Presbyterians Approve Ordination of Gay People

by Maze in

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/11/us/11presbyterian.html.

presbyterians approve ordination of gay people.

after 33 years of debate, the presbyterian church (u.s.a.) has voted to change its constitution and allow openly gay people in same-sex relationships to be ordained as ministers, elders and deacons.