Posts by ABibleStudent

18

I need some encouragement.. Well Mrs.ObjectiveTruth needs some encouragement.

by objectivetruth in

jw
friends

hey everyone.. i'm trying to convince mrs.objectivetruth to join the forum, but she's a bit nervous.

perhaps if you all can give her some words of encouragement, it will convince her to join the jwn family... btw she already knows ttatt.. she's just not convinced to join the forum..

ABibleStudent

Welcome objectivetruth, What are your concerns?

How about planning a nice vacation with Mr. objectivetruth instead?

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

34

i've been visiting here for about a year or so, but didn't really feel compelled to participate other than reading the various posts that interested me.. there's been that uncomfortable feeling of being disloyal to god, the organization, many friends and relatives.. i've been associated since birth.

after 65 + years of service within this organization and actually enjoying that time, it troubled me to find myself wanting to express feelings that were contrary to all that time of "faithfulness".

those years were filled with progressive "privileges and responsibilities" even at a high level, and there was considerable success in our evangelizing activity.

ABibleStudent

Welcome stirred but not shaken, You are a very lucky man that your wife and a few other family members accepted your change in belief. Do you have children? Did your children accept your change in belief?

IMHO being a little skeptical and using your mind is a good thing. Blindly following others can lead one over a cliff like a lemming (or Mt 15:14)!

Besides JWN what other sources have you read? What other websites have you visited? Have you visited reputable websites like www.jwfacts.com, www.freedomofmind.com, www.watchtowerdocuments.com, www.jwsurvey.org, and www.freeminds2.org? Have you read any books by Raymond Franz (i.e., "Crisis of Conscience" and "In Search of Christian Freedom"), Don Cameron (i.e., "Captive of a Concept"), and books by cult-exit counselors like Steve Hassan (i.e., "Combatting Cult Mind Control", "Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves", and (his latest book) "Freedom of Mind: Helping Loved Ones Leave Controlling People, Cults and Beliefs")?

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

10

Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life..." What is the JW perspective on this passage?

by Faithful Witness in

how important is the phrase, "i am" to jw's, when it is spoken by jesus about himself?

my elderette wants to examine this scripture (john 14:6) together next week.

i'm wondering what rabbit she is going to pull out of her hat.

ABibleStudent

Hi Faithful Witness, I don't know how Miss K will try to twist John 14:6, but I feel that you can turn the tables on her by insisting on reading all of John 14 (especially the highlighted passages below) instead of cherry-picking scriptures, and asking her two questions. Why do Christians need an organization when Jesus Christ promised that God would send Christians the Holy Spirit to guide them? Why does the WTBTS write so much about what the WTBTS believes a "True Christian" should follow, when Jesus Christ said obey his teachings in John 14:23?

IMHO if Christians follow God's Greatist Commandments in Mt 22:37-40 they will live a happier and more productive life than blindly following other men or only loving money/power.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

John 14:15-30 (NIV)

Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit

15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be [ c ] in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”

22 Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”

23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

25 “All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

28 “You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. 29 I have told you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe. 30 I will not say much more to you, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold over me, 31 but he comes so that the world may learn that I love the Father and do exactly what my Father has commanded me.

“Come now; let us leave.

27

They are i- Pad Nutty Now

by Poztate in

so many at my wife's hall have rushed to buy i-pads,androids etc for use in servicetm and at the hall.. most know little or nothing about how to use them but have joined the stampede to jw.org tm and the reinvention of the wtbts.. it prompted one elder at my wife's hall to have a seminar at his house to explain how to use them in service and at the hall.. how exciting.... one 80 year old pioneer woman will be there with her new toy.. as a distraction it seems to be working quite well.

no need to worry about 1914 or other issues.. they are all nuts and getting nuttier....

ABibleStudent

I feel that the WTBTS encouraging JWs to use tablets will backfire on the WTBTS for four reasons.

More money spent on tablets/data plans means less money to donate to the WTBTS for constructing new buildings.
More JWs who own tablets means more chances for JWs visiting non-WTBTS approved sites. The WTBTS needs to create an app for JWs to use to protect them from freely searching the internet. I would love to type www.jwfacts.com or www.freedomofmind.com in a JW's tablet.
Most non-jWs would not be impressed with www.jw.org nor with JWs carrying iPads. Either non-JWs already own a tablet/laptop, do not like using computers, or they might steal the iPad from JWs.
Most people do not get involved with dangerous cults because of technology. They get involved because of social influence (i.e., love bombing, sexual attraction, loneliness, born-in).

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

61

Embarrassed by Aggressive Apostates

by ShempLives in

jw
friends

xjw protests & videos.

.. i am disturbed by some of the more aggressive apostates posting videos on youtube,like "a jw memorial to remember" where a drunk man goes to a memorial and downs the whole glass of wine as a sort of protest.

this video and others like it received positive comments from aawa members.

ABibleStudent

Welcome ShempLives, The WTBTS's BITE control has left its mark on many exJWs. ExJWs may go through a grieving process that includes disbelief, betrayal, hurt, anger, and numbness. Some exJWs move on and some don't. I worry about those that feel angry for years/decades. If you know of someone specifically, how would you help them?

What are your WTBTS abuse issues (without going into personally identifying details)?

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

85

My Elderette is returning today to CONDUCT another conversation...

by Faithful Witness in

she has had 42 years of training and indoctrination.

i'm feeling sort of nervous, but also looking forward to it.

this will be our second scheduled session together, and we never did agree on a topic.. i'm assuming she will come with an agenda and another prepared presentation.

ABibleStudent

Faithful Witness - "So, we believe that the Jehovah's Witnesses are the ones teaching the TRUTH today. It sounds like you really aren't there yet," she said, as she got up to go.

I said, "No, I am not."

Miss W piped in with, "That's because you are still in kindergarten. It will take you awhile to get to 1st grade, then 2nd grade..."

(I kept in mind that they were recruited during the fever of 1975 and the end of the world, as Miss W continued). "Some people take longer to come to the truth. When my husband and I started studying, it only took us 3 months, and we were ready to be baptized! But they stopped us and said, 'Wait a minute... you don't KNOW quite enough yet...' so we studied for 3 more months, and THEN we got baptized!!" She was so proud of this quick progress, I could tell. . . .

They are so fixated on these little details and side issues, that they are missing the big picture. Next week, I will find a way to say something about how much I learn from MY kindergartener, every day. My son is a brilliant example to follow. Didn't Jesus tell us to come to him like children?

Hi Faithful Witness, From a JW's perspective they are right and you are wrong. The elder, who was my "Bible Study" (indoctrination) conductor, once told me that I did not have the right heart/mind to understand the Bible secrets that he was trying to help me learn. If you can cause Miss K to doubt her approach in trying to indoctrinate you, may be it will open her mind a little. JWs use what Steve Hassan would call unhealthy influence to unduly influence people [see his video How Big is the Phenomenon of Undue Influence? (2:01)].

I can think of two ways to confront Miss K about her use of unhealthy influence (e.g., changing topics and saying you are in kindergarten). May be other JWN members have additional ideas. Probably the better method is to repeat what Miss K said, ask her how she would feel if a Mormon told her what she said to convince her that she did not know what she was talking about or always changed subjects instead of answering her questions.

The other method would probably cause Miss K to end her "Bible Study" (indoctrination) with you. When Miss K says that the problem is you (or constantly changes subjects), ask her why she is brining reproach on Jehovah? When she asks what do you mean, ask her why is she using unhealthy influence techniques to unduly influence you and then show her Steve Hassan's video How Big is the Phenomenon of Undue Influence? (2:01).

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

85

My Elderette is returning today to CONDUCT another conversation...

by Faithful Witness in

she has had 42 years of training and indoctrination.

i'm feeling sort of nervous, but also looking forward to it.

this will be our second scheduled session together, and we never did agree on a topic.. i'm assuming she will come with an agenda and another prepared presentation.

ABibleStudent

Hi Faithful Witness, I'm impressed that you talked with the two sisters for 3 hrs!! Here's two for you.

Have you thought about asking Miss K to view what she says from your prespective? How would she feel if she asked you a question and you changed topics instead of answering her question? Would she feel like you were hiding somthing from her? Would she feel that it was a health or unhealthy conversation?

Miss K seems to use a lot of thought-stopping platitudes like "imperfect men" and "that they did something wrong". Since Miss K likes to say that the WTBTS has imperfect men who have made mistakes in the past, how does she view your opinions about the Bible? What did those JW men do that was so wrong in Miss K's opinion? Are you more imperfect than JW men who have done something wrong? Is she more imperfect than JW men who she said did something wrong? When JWs say that the "Light keep getting brighter" is it because imperfect men made mistakes and needed to cover-up their mistakes?

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

11

new poster

by stirred but not shaken in

havn't been able to post .

how do i do it?.

ABibleStudent

Welcome stirred but not shaken, Just type in the box at the bottom of this webpage between "Post a reply", and the "Submit" and "Cancel" buttons. When you are done, press the "Submit" or "Cancell" buttons. You will have about 30 minutes to edit your post before it cannot be changed by pressing the pencil icon on the far right of your comment.

Without writing too much details, what is your story? What inspired you to join?

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

9

Helpful Scriptural References - importance of Trust in God not Man

by objectivetruth in

psalms 118:8 - it is better to take refuge in jehovah than to trust in humans.. the scriptures are clear that jesus is the truth - the way - the life : john 4:6 - jesus said to him: i am the way and the truth and the life.

no one comes to the father except through me.

1 timothy 2:4 - whose will is that all sorts of people should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth.

ABibleStudent

I like Mt 22:37-40 and Mt 15:14 to overcome how Christians need an organization. How can you follow an organization who's leaders tell its members to follow what the leader(s) says no matter what. Since God's greatist commandment instructs Christians to love God with "ALL" your heart, mind, and soul and his second commandment instructs followers to love your neighbors as yourself, how can Christians blindly follow its religious leaders like the Jews followed the Pharisees and Sadducees?

Mt 22:34-40 (NIV)

The Greatest Commandment

34 Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35 One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[ c ] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[ d ] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Mt 15:14

That Which Defiles

15 Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!”

3 Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ [a] and ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’ [b] 5 But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is ‘devoted to God,’ 6 they are not to ‘honor their father or mother’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:

8 “‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
9 They worship me in vain;
their teachings are merely human rules.’ [c] ”

10 Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen and understand. 11 What goes into someone’s mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them.”

12 Then the disciples came to him and asked, “Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this?”

13 He replied, “Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots. 14 Leave them; they are blind guides. [d] If the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.”

15 Peter said, “Explain the parable to us.”

16 “Are you still so dull?” Jesus asked them. 17 “Don’t you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18 But the things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart, and these defile them. 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20 These are what defile a person; but eating with unwashed hands does not defile them.”

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

85

My Elderette is returning today to CONDUCT another conversation...

by Faithful Witness in

she has had 42 years of training and indoctrination.

i'm feeling sort of nervous, but also looking forward to it.

this will be our second scheduled session together, and we never did agree on a topic.. i'm assuming she will come with an agenda and another prepared presentation.

ABibleStudent

Hi Faithful Witness, I wish you the BEST!

DITTO what cultBgone said about slowing Miss K down by at least repeating what she said back to her and then asking her a simple question about what she said.

It is very important that when you ask simple questions to sound sincere and inquisitive like you are trying to understand what Miss K is trying to teach you. You may become very frustrated listening to Miss K, so visualize in your mind something that makes you very happy so that your body language and tone of voice does not betray what you are thinking. Do you have a smartphone? Although it is illegal to record conversations without the other person knowing about it, recording your conversations with Miss K may help you to listen to how you sound to Miss K. After listening to the recording, just delete it.

Listen to what Miss K says to detect her using thought-stopping platitudes. If she does, try to overcome them if you feel you know how to or at least remember them for later.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert