Posts by WontLeave

37

Am I mistaken or are these stupid mistakes on watchtower.org?

by WontLeave in

am i the only one who notices a couple of problems with this?.

first of all, passover is on 15 nisan, not 14.. the sheep should prove to be sound, a male, a year old, for you.

you may pick from the young rams or from the goats.

WontLeave

HE HAD NOT YET SINNED

Actually, if you look a few verses ahead, Judas had already made the arrangements to betray Jesus.

Then one of the twelve, the one called Judas Is·car′i·ot, went to the chief priests and said: “What will YOU give me to betray him to YOU?” They stipulated to him thirty silver pieces. So from then on he kept seeking a good opportunity to betray him. - Mat 26:14-16

And Judas Is·car′i·ot, one of the twelve, went off to the chief priests in order to betray him to them. When they heard it, they rejoiced and promised to give him silver money. So he began seeking how to betray him conveniently. - Mark 14:10-11

Now the festival of the unfermented cakes, the so-called Passover, was getting near. Also, the chief priests and the scribes were seeking the effective way for them to get rid of him, for they were in fear of the people. But Satan entered into Judas, the one called Is·car′i·ot, who was numbered among the twelve; and he went off and talked with the chief priests and [temple] captains about the effective way to betray him to them. Well, they rejoiced and agreed to give him silver money. So he consented, and he began to seek a good opportunity to betray him to them without a crowd around. - Luke 22:1-6

In case you're trying to figure out how to work the Watchtower mistakes into conversation with a JW who comes to your door, the website is on the invitations. You can just say you went to the website after receiving one and had some questions. Since - being a Christian and in light of the season - you were reading the Bible about the last days of Christ on earth, you noticed some things didn't match what was online. This way you won't tip them off that you "know too much" and are an "opposer" or "apostate". Keep their wall down and keep them listening. Maybe, just maybe, they'll allow the Bible to speak to them without the taint of Watchtower spin.

37

Am I mistaken or are these stupid mistakes on watchtower.org?

by WontLeave in

am i the only one who notices a couple of problems with this?.

first of all, passover is on 15 nisan, not 14.. the sheep should prove to be sound, a male, a year old, for you.

you may pick from the young rams or from the goats.

WontLeave

A couple of JWs just stopped by. How convenient. I had them hold on a minute while I grabbed my invitation and Bible. I asked them why they're having it tonight, when it's only Palm Sunday and not Easter Sunday (playing dumb). I let them get themselves nice and wrapped up in the Nisan 14th thing. I had to bite my tongue while they "educated" me about how a Jewish day and lunar calendar work. Then I asked what day it is right now, on the Jewish calendar and they said "The 13th." And the trap was sprung.

I showed them from Exodus that the lamb/kid was slaughtered on the 14th and eaten that night (next Jewish day). I showed them in the Gospels the apostles were wandering around looking for a place to hold Passover at the time the animal would have been slaughtered, placing that squarely on the 14th. Then, after sundown, they had the Passover, clearly making it Nisan 15th.

The waffling, excuses, pathetic attempts to make it seem complicated were amusing. I told them the Jews were having Passover tomorrow night and if they needed to know the day, all they had to do was ask them.

All-in-all, they were pretty nice, so I kept it pleasant. I am amassing a little JW ministry with the ones who come knocking. I'm always willing to engage in anyone who knocks on my door and wants to talk about the Bible. Mormons and Witnesses are easy, because they come to me. Perhaps the Holy Spirit sent these ones to my door today. I might be anointed, so maybe I should go have some free wine and nasty bread.

23

dos it really matter if someone drinks the wine and eats the crackers??!

by highdose in

jw
friends

a big part of every memorial i ever went to was given to drumming it home that unless you were anoited you couldn't partake.

and everyone would be watching the "strangers" as their turn came, ripples of horror would go round the congregation if they dared to nibble or sip(!).

... but seriously what is the problem?

WontLeave

that group got filled way back in the first century for sure

This is assuming the JW teaching that all 1st-Century Christians were anointed. In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus said "Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth." If everybody there who accepted him had to go to Heaven, who was he talking to? The JWs telling God they were anointed, then closing the door in 1935, to later reopen it... That's some serious arrogance. We don't tell God whether we're anointed; he tells us.

37

Am I mistaken or are these stupid mistakes on watchtower.org?

by WontLeave in

am i the only one who notices a couple of problems with this?.

first of all, passover is on 15 nisan, not 14.. the sheep should prove to be sound, a male, a year old, for you.

you may pick from the young rams or from the goats.

WontLeave

Am I the only one who notices a couple of problems with this?

First of all, Passover is on 15 Nisan, not 14.

The sheep should prove to be sound, a male, a year old, for YOU. YOU may pick from the young rams or from the goats. And it must continue under safeguard by YOU until the fourteenth day of this month, and the whole congregation of the assembly of Israel must slaughter it between the two evenings. And they must take some of the blood and splash it upon the two doorposts and the upper part of the doorway belonging to the houses in which they will eat it. “‘And they must eat the flesh on this night. - Exo 12:5-8

The Jewish day is from sundown to sundown. The lamb is to be slaughtered on the 14th and eaten "this night", which would be after sundown, or the 15th. Passover this year starts on Tuesday (Monday after sundown) and Jehovah's Witnesses are celebrating the Memorial on Sunday after sundown (14 Nisan) - a full day before Passover.

Secondly, there is no scriptural reason to believe Judas had left before the bread and wine were eaten.

Also, he took a loaf, gave thanks, broke it, and gave it to them, saying: “This means my body which is to be given in YOUR behalf. Keep doing this in remembrance of me.” Also, the cup in the same way after they had the evening meal, he saying: “This cup means the new covenant by virtue of my blood, which is to be poured out in YOUR behalf. “But, look! the hand of my betrayer is with me at the table. - Luke 22:19-21

he, knowing that the Father had given all things into [his] hands and that he came forth from God and was going to God, got up from the evening meal and laid aside his outer garments. And, taking a towel, he girded himself. - John 13:3-4

Therefore, after he received the morsel, he [Judas] went out immediately. And it was night. - John 13:30

Matthew and Mark discuss the Last Supper, but do not mention Judas leaving before the bread and wine are passed. Since 2 of the Gospels make it clear that Judas was present during the passing of bread and wine, the matter should be considered established. Notice, how the Watchtower site jumps from Gospel to Gospel to establish their timeline, taking events out of context and piecing them together as they see fit .

How are mistakes this seemingly simple made by people who are supposed to be "Jehovah’s spirit-directed organization" and "his sole visible channel, through whom alone spiritual instruction was to come"? The sad part is, they are so arrogant and so self-absorbed, if these points are brought to their attention, they will ignore them and turn you in to your local elders. To add insult to injury they may actually reply, sending a condescending copy-and-paste letter back to you that would insult the intelligence of a goldfish. Of course, this letter would only reference their own writings and carefully avoid any scriptural references.

27

For those attending tomorrow.....

by cantleave in

jw
friends

we salute you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shci6ve-ple.

WontLeave

I just posted the scriptures in another thread, so I'll avoid reposting the exact thing, but the JW Memorial is on the wrong day. It should be on the 15 th of Nisan - Passover - not the 14 th .

16

Question regarding the memorial

by grewupjw1969 in

although i was raised a jw, i have never understood why they celebrated the memorial on a different day than easter.

can someone explain?.

grewupjw.

WontLeave

Please disregard my previous post. Hearing year after year "Nisan 14", I assumed that to be correct. How can they get a detail wrong, when they make such a big deal about it? This is why I refuse to read the literature: It plants seeds in your head that can linger for years.

The sheep should prove to be sound, a male, a year old, for YOU. YOU may pick from the young rams or from the goats. And it must continue under safeguard by YOU until the fourteenth day of this month, and the whole congregation of the assembly of Israel must slaughter it between the two evenings. And they must take some of the blood and splash it upon the two doorposts and the upper part of the doorway belonging to the houses in which they will eat it. “‘And they must eat the flesh on this night. - Exo 12:5-8

Now on the first day of unfermented cakes, when they customarily sacrificed the passover [victim], his disciples said to him: “Where do you want us to go and prepare for you to eat the passover?” - Mark 14:12

After evening had fallen he came with the twelve. Mark 14:17

Since Jewish days were sundown to sundown, it would appear the Passover lamb would actually be slaughtered the day before Jesus died. This would mean Jesus did partake of the Passover meal on Nisan 15, not 14. I'm not really sure why the Society chooses the previous day. Clearly, the Memorial should be on Passover: Nisan 15, not Nisan 14.

16

Question regarding the memorial

by grewupjw1969 in

although i was raised a jw, i have never understood why they celebrated the memorial on a different day than easter.

can someone explain?.

grewupjw.

WontLeave

The date seems to be very important. For thousands of years, Jews slaughtered the Passover lamb on the day Jesus would eventually die. I can't see how the religious leaders didn't notice that connection.

Similarly, Pentacost was the Jewish Shavuot - the first day the Jews could bring the first fruits to the Temple. This is also the day when the first Christian congregation was identified and consecrated.

The Jewish holiday of Passover for 2011 begins Tuesday, 19 April 2011 - that is, sunset on Monday 18. The lamb would be slaughtered the preceding Jewish day (hours before the feast at sundown), Nisan 14 - our Sunday/Monday, 17/18. This would have Jesus dying (2-3pm the next afternoon) right about the time the Jews were slaughtering their Passover lambs.

26

The latest July 15 WT - un-real.

by just n from bethel in

jw
friends

i've been trying for some time to find the motiviation i needed to completely leave the cult behind.

i'm mean, do it emotionally as well as mentally (whole-souled, right?

), despite still having a lot of family and friends that are cult members.

WontLeave

If we stop actively supporting Jehovah’s work, then we start following Satan. There is no middle ground.

Actually, this statement is correct. Where their logic falls apart is when they equate their work to God's work. In their eyes, unless you're knocking on doors (a very inefficient method for most JWs, although it was always good for me) or dumping piles of old mags in laundromats, then you're not preaching. No matter how much time you spend on an Internet ministry or website which offers scriptural answers to questions, it doesn't count.

They can try whatever they want: Sound cars, sandwich signs, phonographs, radio, websites, newspaper ads, public debates, conventions, etc. We are only allowed to do what they tell us to; there is no room for creativity among the unwashed rank and file. See, the Governing Body believe (or at least tell us) the ministry is theirs. They are the preachers and we're the "other sheep companions" and if we're obedient little children, we can ride their coattails through Armageddon. If it weren't for them, we'd all be screwed, so ultimately, they are our saviors.

I believe most here are somewhat familiar with the Bible. I suggest getting more familiar with it. Not so much the nit-picky details the Society likes to get bogged down in: Prophecy, parable, year counting, etc., but in the Gospel. JWs swallow the camel while straining at the gnats. They get all caught up in "times" and rules, and totally overlook Christ and Jehovah. Sure, they pay lip-service to them, but the main focus is on themselves, just like the 1st-Century Pharisees.

They'll have to answer for any they lead into idolatry or stumble from God altogether. It's our individual responsibility to make sure they don't do that. This ministry belongs to Jesus, not 7 old narcissists in NY with a messiah complex. If we feel the burning in our belly, they have no right to tell us how or to whom we are allowed to share that message.

The Governing Body keeps reminding us about Moses. They keep telling us they are the modern antitype to Moses. What a crock! Jesus is the greater Moses, not them; and the second he leaves them alone, they start making a golden calf. The only thing the Society has in common with Moses is taking credit for Jehovah's work. Moses didn't end up in the Promised Land for his single lapse of faith. What do these men think is going to come of decades of systematic blasphemy and self-praise?

8

"Disfellowshipping" versus "Disfellowshiping"

by Nick! in

jw
friends

"disfellowshipping" versus "disfellowshiping .

both ways of spelling the word, the single p and the double p versions, seems to be correct.

looking up the word in the wt the 2010 lib cd-rom, i discovered that the watchtower magazine used, up to december 1981, the single p (269 times) version but since july 1982, privileged the double p (231 times) version.

WontLeave

They probably received several phone calls about it, but insisted everybody that called put it in a letter. Most couldn't be bothered and many realized the arrogance and were stumbled. A few wrote Bethel about the misspelling and received copy-and-paste form letters as replies that told them to have faith in the Society and stick closely to their local body of elders if they ever questioned anything in the literature. Seeing as they never listen to anyone from inside the organization and nobody outside the organization cares, the mistake lingered until spell check software started coming bundled with their publishing software.

137

Is this not an easy question?

by the pharmer in

i wanted my jw friend's perspective on something, so i asked them this question:.

if i read a passage of scripture and conclude about it something that opposes the wt's view of the same passage, in your mind who has the truth about that passage (i.e.

who is correct)?

WontLeave

Forgive me if I repeat what someone else said. There seem to be a few people here who "imagine they will get a hearing for their use of many words" and I got bored with the quarrel after a couple of pages.

First of all, most JWs are not qualified to address questions where the Society hasn't given them the answer. Every "good" JW is required to parrot Watchtower opinion. In this case, the Society would print a side-step answer that plays on semantics and gives a total non-answer. The problem with being a real, flesh-and-blood JW is that you can't just print your non-answer or mail it (this is why the Society refuses any communication that isn't in writing) and not have to worry about being called out for answering like a politician/salesman.

My philosophy has always been to allow the Bible to answer any question where God's word takes a stand. And where it remains silent, to not attempt to impose my or anyone else's personal opinions. Fortunately, the question you ask is addressed in the Bible very clearly on several occasions.

However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to YOU as good news something beyond what we declared to YOU as good news, let him be accursed. - Gal 1:8

Add nothing to his words, that he may not reprove you, and that you may not have to be proved a liar. - Pro 30:6

But let God be found true, though every man be found a liar, even as it is written: “That you might be proved righteous in your words and might win when you are being judged. - Rom 3:4

It is better to take refuge in Jehovah than to trust in earthling man. - Psa 118:8

If you eventually get an answer from your friend and it is not in line with the Scriptures, you may want to share this one with him:

Be alert, therefore. Perhaps the light that is in you is darkness. - Luke 11:35