Posts by WontLeave

43

Does Jehovah hate beards?

by brotherunsure in

has the watchtower ever rationalized their obsession with depilation or claimed there was a biblical basis for banning beards, or is it simply because jehovah's corporation/faithful and discrete slave says so?.

WontLeave

Even with a beard, Salma Hayek is gorgeous. It takes more than hair (unibrow in Frida or beard in Cirque du Freak) to cover that kind of beauty.

The beard thing has been a source of contention for many male JWs for years. The GB are old, closed-minded, cantankerous, and self-appointed prophets. The more people argue against them, the deeper they dig in their heels. Beards haven't been an issue for 20 years, in American society, yet because of some WT article from 1968, the average JW believes anyone with a beard will be perceived as a hippie. The anti-beard thing has become as part of JW life as 1914, the Governing Body, and listening to Kingdom Melodies whenever other JWs are in your car. It and many other JW beliefs are simply "understood" as part of the indoctrination process.

Many JW teachings can't be explained or demonstrated from Scripture, so some vague reference is made to a totally unrelated Bible verse as proof, then a WT article is shoved at you, as if anyone should give a pile of dingo's kidneys what the WT says. The same is done on the subject of oral sex with a spouse. 20 paragraphs are written about the evils of this "disgusting" activity (to incite a blind emotional response) and some scriptures about homosexuality and brothels are invoked. I'm not sure if my wife is supposed to be my gay lover or a hooker. But I digress... The articles are written in a way that sound like they're merely pointing out some pertinent Bible teachings, but the ultimate choice is yours. This is JW code, so they can't be openly accused of manipulating people. They know how the congregation elders are going to interpret the 'instruction' in those articles.

The militant attitude of the elders is probably part of their training and definitely part of their pact with the Society. I believe the agreement is unspoken, while eluded to, that elders exist to make sure the WTBTS is unquestioningly obeyed. They're the gestapo to the regime. Their position as congregation overlords is contingent on hard-line party adherence. These losers in cheap suits have nothing else going on in their lives and their fragile egos lust for some sort of recognition. Just like Nazis and Al Qaeda look for illiterate, poor, ignorant people with a chip on their shoulders to recruit; the quality of JW elders has gone completely down the toilet.

So, we have statements like "he broke his pipe and lighter along with his crucifix, destroyed his pornographic films, and shaved off his beard" (w5/1/1995), which just expect you to believe smoking, idolatry, pornography, and beards are all equivalent. The expectation is for the reader to connect the dots in his/her own head, so as to absolve the Society from any obvious wrongdoing. This is how the doctrines keep slithering out of any trouble in the courts; as it takes years of indoctrination and subtle nudges for a JW to form this mentality. It's nothing overt or sudden that can be demonstrated in a courtroom within reasonable time constrains. This is why it takes a year or years to baptize a new recruit: Brainwashing someone who isn't chained up in a cell is hard! It's a lot easier to do on your kids, whom you have from the time they're born. Interestingly, they use the account of Philip and the Ethiopian to establish "you can't understand the Bible without us", but the Ethiopian was baptized immediately, not after months or years of indoctrination.

81

A roaring current of change.... Is The Watchtower in the process of a major overhaul of their religion?

by koolaid-man in

jw
friends

a roaring current of change..... what is going on at the world headquarters of jehovah's witnesses?

in the last couple of years unprecedented changes in policy, procedure, and doctrine have been coming forth in rapid fire sequence.

this uninterrupted episode of new information is beginning to backfire for the rank and file witnesses.

WontLeave

JWs have resorted to ghetto combing. Let's face it; if you're thinking about joining a new religion you've never really heard much about, you're going to check it out. Anyone with Internet access or who isn't ridiculously lazy will really give it a lot of thought before making any commitments. When I was still preaching, I prided myself on having several studies with intelligent people, when the precious few who could muster a study had them with people in styrofoam helmets and shut-ins who just wanted some company. I hated going to other people's studies, because it was embarrassing and uncomfortable.

The current JWs can't establish their beliefs except from JW literature that nobody cares about. They're all out looking for someone totally ignorant about the Bible to 'impress' with things like Psalm 83:18 or Rom 6:23. Then they're caught by surprise when someone hands them their NIV, because they don't realize "Jehovah" isn't in Psalm 83:18 in the NIV. They don't know anything about any translation other than the NWT and a few cheesy parlor tricks with the KJV. They know nothing about JW history, early Christian history, the Inquisitions, the Reformation, or what any denomination teaches - except for JWs and whatever they came from (and often not much about that).

They believe stupid things like "On Jeopardy, Alex Trebek said the NWT is the most accurate." Then, when they're summarily dismissed by someone with an education or intelligence, they label that person a goat or Wiccan, which they believe means "Devil worshiper". From looking at old literature, it was at one time intended for an intelligent, educated, Bible-savvy audience; anymore, it's for retards and ignoramuses. It's dumbed down to a grade-school reading level and relies heavily on the reader's ignorance. It's come to the point where anyone with any brains at all is forced into "apostasy" or pulling some 1984, self-hypnosis brainwashing stunt.

The quality of JWs is getting lower and lower, along with their incomes. Unless the Watchtower can figure some way to accept food stamps, I don't know where the money is going to be coming from. The only JWs I know who have any intelligence or income to speak of are long-timers. They come from a kinder and gentler organization and I don't believe most even realize what will happen to them if they are caught saying something that doesn't fit this month's WT dogma. They are so blasé about the religion, most probably aren't paying much attention, feeling they already know all about it and are just going through the motions. I doubt most born-ins and old-timers really see the power grab trend of the GB, because if they're probably so bored they're not paying attention.

Since I became aware of the problems, I pay much more attention at the meetings, because they piss me off. No, I'm not saying "amen" to a prayer thanking the Creator of the Universe for a song book that sucks. When someone comes right out in a comment or talk saying the Watchtower is "from God" or that the GB is inspired - recently happened and I was mortified - I just cringe. Nobody else there notices, even though they all seem to be looking at the platform. Are they listening to the same thing I am? Are they listening at all? If a guy got up there and just started reading the phone book, would anyone notice? No wonder they always clap the same, no matter the quality of the public talk: They didn't hear a word of it.

35

What do you think 2012 Convention theme will be?

by Iamallcool in

jw
friends

.

WontLeave

Welcome to the 2012 "We're Your Christ, Now" district convention of Jehovah's Witnesses

67

About the Adam and Eve time gap....

by Lozhasleft in

jw
friends

what's got me a bit befuddled is this.... when eve was created she was physically perfect right?

and apparently god blessed them which counted as a marriage.

so....that means that satan's deception of eve must have been almost immediate?....because being perfect she would have conceived virtually straight away, surely?

WontLeave

In my mind, the perfect woman is a BJ addict. (Just had to throw that in there)

Genesis chapter 5 indicates the guys were waiting until they were pretty along in years before they started having kids. Granted, Adam's age with his first kids isn't discussed, but his 3rd son, Seth, was born when Adam was 105. The Scriptures remain silent on the whys of the waits, but the youngest mentioned are Mahalalel and Enoch at 65.

It does seem like the girls are maturing younger now than when I was a kid. Maybe it's been gradual, since the beginning, and women were 60+ before they hit puberty.

9

Wanted 2 or 3 Proof Readers (bible believers preferred)

by lovelylil in

jw
friends

this year for the memorial, the ministry group i started called "the kings table", here in weymouth ma will be handing out a one page flyer entitled the watchtower society and the memorial of christ's death.

we will also be posting them close to all the kh's in this area.. this flyer will give thinking jw's the christian perspective on the way the wt holds its services and includes scriptural references.. i am in need of a few people willing to proof read this flyer for me, as well as look up the cited scriptural texts to make sure there are no mistakes.

also needed is feedback on the simplicity of the flyer for a jehovah's witness to understand.

WontLeave

Can't you just post a pdf to google docs, then share the URL here for anyone to look over?

Plans fail for lack of counsel, but with many advisers they succeed. - Prov 15:22 (NIV)

20

Everything feels broken

by Sapphy in

jw
friends

hi all - beware, long post comming up!.

i've always been a person who 'needed to know'.

as a born in i felt incredibly lucky that my parents and grandparents had found 'the truth' - no need to struggle to 'break free from babylon's bondage' for me!

WontLeave

Many people here crave you believe just as they do every bit as much as when they were pounding on doors. Their beliefs may have changed, but the insecurity that requires others share their beliefs to validate them remains. The search for truth is a difficult one, especially if you're trying to make it fit with a preconceived goal.

My personal opinion is, I have no dog in the race. The "holy" books aren't mine and neither are the science (true or pseudo) books, so I won't be offended whichever someone choses to believe. But you asked as "a person who needed to know" and that's commendable. It definitely beats creating your perception then seeking evidence for that end, which is what most people do. Your journey is your own, but I'll share my method of travel and you can perhaps glean something helpful from it:

I read everything, but believe nothing until I can see a bigger picture. As soon as I sense an agenda or specious evidence that's pretty obviously used with full knowledge of the presenter that it's spin, I suspect everything they say and require more than the usual proof of subsequent statements. That's why I don't trust the Watchtower: I've caught them too many times taking liberties with the Scriptures and playing fast and loose with facts. Many sources I've researched have gone into my "BS until proven otherwise" pile on this very basis.

Agenda is actually one of the main reasons I believe the Bible is inspired of God, while minor details may have been altered by activist priests and scribes throughout the centuries. If there is a God, he wouldn't allow his Word to become so tainted the truth couldn't be gleaned from it by someone with an honest mind and heart. If the whole thing is a lie and there is no God, then why all the different churches teaching a different doctrine about the same original lie? Basically, why compound lying about a lie?

While there are a few Muslim, Buddhist, and Jewish sects, they are nearly identical in doctrine to one another. Meanwhile, David Barrett's research discovered 33,830 "Christian" denominations. It seems to me something or someone has made a concentrated effort to confuse Christianity to the point of ridiculousness, while the other major religions have merely split along a few geographic lines or followed the idiosyncrasies of dynamic leaders, while never straying far from original orthodoxy. Why the Catholic Church turning orthodoxy on its ear then engaging in ghastly tactics to enforce it? Why the secrecy of the Bible and the seizure of all doctrinal authority by the Popes? Muslims are supposed to memorize as much of the Q'ran as possible and Jews are supposed to read regularly from the Torah, but the Church did everything it could to keep people from reading the Bible.

Why can so many people look right at Bible verses that are as plain as day and see something completely different than what the words say? What causes them to be stricken blind when dealing with the Bible, when other books don't seem to be affected this way? It was this confusion and blindness that caused me to believe the Bible was more than just a book of fairy tales and some sinister force was trying to negate the effect it has in people's lives. There is no reason to confuse the understanding of the Q'ran, Book of Mormon, Tripitaka, beyond what is natural and human, since they don't lead to truth or salvation, in my opinion. I read them nonetheless, just for due diligence (well, not the Tripitaka, because it's insanely enormous and doesn't even claim to answer my questions).

81

A roaring current of change.... Is The Watchtower in the process of a major overhaul of their religion?

by koolaid-man in

jw
friends

a roaring current of change..... what is going on at the world headquarters of jehovah's witnesses?

in the last couple of years unprecedented changes in policy, procedure, and doctrine have been coming forth in rapid fire sequence.

this uninterrupted episode of new information is beginning to backfire for the rank and file witnesses.

WontLeave

While occasionally sources for interesting tidbits, Rick and e-Watchman seem to each have their own messiah complexes. I think they're just jealous the GB gets 7M followers and they only get a few, in comparison. At least e-Watchman has a solid, stated doctrine, whereas Rick will take any support from anyone who hates JWs for any reason - real or imagined. He has some very strange bedfellows who are just as bizarre and incredible as anything the GB has ever said or done. I'm not defending the WTBTS, but blind rage is still blindness.

47

Blind Allegiance to G.B. supported by scripture?

by honorsthesis in

hey everyone,.

i have been getting in on going debates with brothers in the congregation about the role of the governing body.

i feel that jehovah would not want us to blindly follow a particular g.b.

WontLeave

Personally, I love when they use Moses as an example of the GB. It demonstrates beyond any doubt how they can look right at Jesus' words and then spit on them. They love to apply Bible examples to everyone except themselves. Somehow, they are exempt from all lessons to be learned.

The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the seat of Moses. - Mat 23:2

The Pharisees tried the same thing, touting their position, invoking some other historical figure, but John the Baptist and Jesus dismissed that.

and do not presume to say to yourselves, "As a father we have Abraham." - John 3:9

The GB love to perform mental gymnastics to shoehorn in some Bible "evidence" of their unquestionable authority. But, when clear, point-for-point descriptions of the Pharisees fit them like a glove, suddenly they don't see any correlation. Lately, I've been thinking about how they use the doctrine of JWs to establish their authority (since the 607 BCE + Daniel's prophesy thing clearly doesn't work - see my timetable). I know many here have come to believe the Trinity and other "mainstream" church teachings and I'm not going to get into all that, because those arguments have been made for hundreds of years, already.

Personally, I believe JW doctrine to be the most sound of any denomination, but Jesus didn't argue doctrine with the Pharisees. The only mention of anything doctrinal, that I recall, was the Resurrection, with the Sadducees. Everything else was policy, which is exactly what the GB keeps failing on, over and over again. They set up hoops and draw lines in the sand, then demand we conform to the standards they set. Even the 1914 "generation" thing; what difference does it make? Being a Christian doesn't have an expiration date, so the GB can set up all the false dates they want and that shouldn't affect us.

But, they require it does! They demand we preach their falsehoods and believe their delusions. The back-room Inquisitions call "heresy" at anyone not towing the current party line. Therein lies the problem, because "The error of the inquirer will prove to be just the same as the error of the prophet" (Eze 14:10) and "If, then, a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit" (Mat 15:14). I refuse to share the blood guilt and will not preach things I know to be questionable or false.

It's each person's responsibility to educate him/herself, so as not to be someone else's blind follower (Eph 4:15-15). If we ignore the repeated warnings from the Bible to not allow our consciences to be enslaved to men, there will be no sympathy for us (Jer 17:5). Even the GB itself has pointed out all the evidence we need, to avoid submitting to human rule of the congregation, in their own literature. They've brought up the subject of the Pharisees many times. Even in recent WT articles where they promote idolatry - worship of the WTBTS and unquestioning devotion to the GB - they begin the articles with sound Scriptural instruction to reject human leadership. It's as though, somehow (by Jehovah's Holy Spirit, perhaps) they are compelled to tell the truth, even when they're about to lie. And their blinded minds don't even realize they give themselves away to anyone who is willing to see it.

40

My article on Russia's ban of JW's

by honorsthesis in

i am a columinst for cornell university's "the diplomacist".

i recently wrote an article on the various troubles jehovah's witnesses are facing in russia.

i try to make the point that, even if you do not support the witnesses (and most don't) you should support freedom of thought, expression and religion.. if you are interested in checking it out, here it is: "snuffing out religious freedom in russia".

WontLeave

Just hold the Russian government to oft-documented JW standards:

Believe or speak something we don't tell you to, we punish you or throw you out.
JW kids aren't permitted to receive higher education, relegating them to the lower-class.
Behave, talk, or look differently, then everybody around you will conspire against you.
Try to teach something that's not accepted as orthodox and nobody is allowed to listen to you.
Encourage everyone around JWs to spy on them, constantly vigilant for something to report on.
Force dissenters from the currently-accepted ideology into secrecy, having to practice their beliefs underground.
Demand total unity and unwavering submission to party ideals.
Allow propaganda and outright lies against any who refuse to conform, pinning them with pejorative titles.

Oh, wait... That's exactly what's going on, already.

18

It's About Time Something Was Done.....

by Sam Whiskey in

jw
friends

the toughest anti-illegal-immigrant measure in a generation passed the arizona legislature this week.

if signed, as expected, by republican governor jan brewer, the law will give local police sweeping new powers in regard to undocumented workers.

currently, immigration offenses are violations of federal, not state, law, and local police officers only can inquire about a person's immigration status if that person is suspected of another crime.

WontLeave

Oh, great... Here come the "The Bible supports my political party" arguments. These are always entertaining. The proverbial pots calling the kettles black. Jesus argued against Bet Hillel and Bet Shammai, which were respectively uber conservative and uber liberal. Many here already fell for the false dichotomy of "We can prove other religions are wrong, so we must be right on everything" argument from JWs and now you're doing it with your political parties. Republican and Democrat are just 2 more cults you've been suckered into. "Third-party" or "Independent" parties might seem like the best of the bad, but they're not the answer and will just become corrupted with power and popularity. Getting into politics is like trying to polish a turd (even though Myth Busters managed to do just that).

The morsel of truth that brought most of us into JWs is that only God's kingdom can fix things. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. If you have given up on God's kingdom, then you have no hope for mankind and all is vanity and a striving after the wind. Obsessing over false solutions will just frustrate you and distract you from real solutions. That's what the purpose of false religion and politics is - Satan's tools of distraction to keep you so active in the movement that you never stop to think whether it really is the truth or the answer. And if you do believe in God's kingdom, why even try to slow the decline of society when you know God will step in once things deteriorate enough? You'd just be attempting to delay the inevitable and prolong the misery.