Yes, and as far as I can see, the GT consists of a series of events that culminated in the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple.
Vanderhoven7
JoinedPosts by Vanderhoven7
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41
Is Watchtower totally off base on Armageddon?
by Vanderhoven7 into me it is quite evident that the gt spoken about in matthew 24, mark 13 and luke 21 is a one time, non-repeatable localized event resulting in the destruction of jerusalem and the temple followed by the dispersion of surviving jews throughout the nations.. however, what is not so clear to most is that the gt of revelation deals with the same event.
my understanding is that the gb of jehovah witnesses has no clue as to how to interpret the apocalyptic messages found both in the synoptics and revelation.
but steve greg has armageddon down pat.
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41
Is Watchtower totally off base on Armageddon?
by Vanderhoven7 into me it is quite evident that the gt spoken about in matthew 24, mark 13 and luke 21 is a one time, non-repeatable localized event resulting in the destruction of jerusalem and the temple followed by the dispersion of surviving jews throughout the nations.. however, what is not so clear to most is that the gt of revelation deals with the same event.
my understanding is that the gb of jehovah witnesses has no clue as to how to interpret the apocalyptic messages found both in the synoptics and revelation.
but steve greg has armageddon down pat.
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Vanderhoven7
To me it is quite evident that the GT spoken about in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 is a one time, non-repeatable localized event resulting in the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple followed by the dispersion of surviving Jews throughout the nations.
However, what is not so clear to most is that the GT of Revelation deals with the same event. My understanding is that the GB of Jehovah Witnesses has no clue as to how to interpret the apocalyptic messages found both in the synoptics and Revelation. But Steve Greg has Armageddon down pat. What do you think?
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Jehovah’s Witnesses or Jesus Witnesses?
by Vanderhoven7 inkeith writes.
you have just touched on a flawed doctrinal belief that is foundational to false religion.. first, it is important to understand what false religion means when they call themselves jehovah’s witnesses.
by this, they declare themselves to be “witnesses of the father” despite the fact that jehovah is not the name of god at all, but a concoction of human origin from the dark ages.. here is the flaw:.
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Vanderhoven7
Granted, Keith's argument is flawed.
It seems to me that “You are my witnesses, declares Jehovah, applied to those under the Old Covenant. Noteworthy is the fact that this designation was not repeated to the anointed or to Gentiles under the New Covenant. However, Christians are called repeatedly to witness to Jesus Christ in the Greek scriptures.
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Jehovah’s Witnesses or Jesus Witnesses?
by Vanderhoven7 inkeith writes.
you have just touched on a flawed doctrinal belief that is foundational to false religion.. first, it is important to understand what false religion means when they call themselves jehovah’s witnesses.
by this, they declare themselves to be “witnesses of the father” despite the fact that jehovah is not the name of god at all, but a concoction of human origin from the dark ages.. here is the flaw:.
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Vanderhoven7
The New Testament confirms:
Christians were to be witnesses of Christ, not Jehovah:
(Matthew 10:18) ....before governors and kings for my sake, for a witness....
(Mark 13:9) ...be put on the stand......for my sake, for a witness to them.
(Luke 24:48) You are to be witnesses of these things.
(John 1:15) (John bore witness about him, (Jesus)
(John 5:37) And the Father who sent me has himself borne witness about me.
(John 8:18) ...bears witness about myself, and the Father..bears witness about me.”
(John 15:26, 27) ....bear witness about me; and you, in turn, are to bear witness....
(Acts 1:8) ..witnesses of me in Jerusalem,.....the most distant part of the earth.”
(Acts 9:15, 16) But the Lord said to him: “Go! because this man is a chosen vessel to me to bear my name to the nations as well as to kings and the sons of Israel. For I will show him plainly how many things he must suffer for my name.”
(Acts 10:39) And we are witnesses of all the things he did.......
(Acts 10:43) To him (Jesus) all the prophets bear witness....
(Acts 13:31) .......These are now his witnesses to the people.
(Acts 22:15) because you are to be a witness for him (Jesus) to all men......
(Acts 22:20) and when the blood of Stephen your witness...
(Acts 23:11) ....witness about me in Jerusalem,.....also bear witness in Rome.”
(Acts 26:16) .....a witness .....................respecting me.
(1 Corinthians 1:6) ...the witness about the Christ has been made firm among you,
(1 Timothy 2:6, 7) ...this is what is to be witnessed to in its own due time.
(2 Timothy 1:8) ....the witness about our Lord.......
(1 John 5:9) ....this is the witness God gives, the witness.....about his Son.
(Revelation 1:9) ......bearing witness concerning Jesus.
(Revelation 12:17) ....have the work of bearing witness concerning Jesus.
(Revelation 17:6) ......and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus.
(Revelation 19:10) ....witnessing concerning Jesus...the witness concerning Jesus...”
(Revelation 20:4) ...for the witness they gave about Jesus......
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Jehovah’s Witnesses or Jesus Witnesses?
by Vanderhoven7 inkeith writes.
you have just touched on a flawed doctrinal belief that is foundational to false religion.. first, it is important to understand what false religion means when they call themselves jehovah’s witnesses.
by this, they declare themselves to be “witnesses of the father” despite the fact that jehovah is not the name of god at all, but a concoction of human origin from the dark ages.. here is the flaw:.
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Vanderhoven7
Keith writes
You have just touched on a flawed doctrinal belief that is foundational to false religion.
First, it is important to understand what false religion means when they call themselves Jehovah’s Witnesses. By this, they declare themselves to be “witnesses of the Father” despite the fact that Jehovah is NOT the name of God at all, but a concoction of human origin from the Dark Ages.
Here is the flaw:
Is it even possible for ANYONE to be a witness of the Father?
The answer to that from the Bible is No!
No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. (John 1:18 NKJV)
This Scripture says that the Father no one has seen, except the Son. So only Jesus can be a witness to the Father!
And if no one has seen the Father, how can anyone testify about the Father???
Jesus rebuked the religious leaders of His day who considered themselves a type of “witnesses of the Father” here:
And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form. But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe. (John 5:37-38 NKJV)
Did you see that? The Jews considered themselves to be “witnesses of the Father” when in reality they have neither seen Him nor heard Him.
But Jesus said that the Father’s word doesn’t dwell in them because they don’t believe in Jesus, whom the Father testified about.
Thus, it is the will of the Father that all should look to the Son, making them, therefore, witnesses of Jesus:
But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth. (Acts 1:8 NKJV)
These are the words of Jesus to His disciples just before He was to ascend into Heaven after His resurrection. Clearly He told His followers that they would be “witnesses of Jesus” NOT “witnesses of the Father.”
The same statement is repeated at the conversion of Saul of Tarsus, who became Paul the Apostle:
But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel. For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name’s sake.” (Acts 9:15-16 NKJV)
The One speaking here is Jesus, and He clearly states that Paul is to bear His Name (not the name of the Father) before kings and Gentiles. Therefore, Paul is also a “Jesus Witness!”
The Apostle Peter also said this:
For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty. For He received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Glory: “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain. (2 Peter 1:16-18 NKJV)
Peter is a special case in that he not only witnessed the Transfiguration of Jesus on the mountain, but He also heard the Father’s voice declaring Jesus to be His Son.
And despite hearing the Father’s voice, Peter is testifying about Christ, NOT the Father!
Why?
Because the Father gave Jesus honor and glory (2 Peter 1:17) The Apostle John, who was there with Peter, echoes the same message:
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world. (1 John 4:14 NKJV)
John is referring to the experience in the Mount of Transfiguration where the Bible records what Jesus was speaking about with Moses and Elijah on that mountain:
And behold, two men talked with Him, who were Moses and Elijah, who appeared in glory and spoke of His decease which He was about to accomplish at Jerusalem. (Luke 9:30-31 NKJV)
Thus the prophecy in the Old Testament is referring to being witnesses of Jesus:
“You are My witnesses,” says the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me.” (Isaiah 43:10 NKJV)
The Apostle Paul, in his testimony about his conversion said this:
Then a certain Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good testimony with all the Jews who dwelt there, came to me; and he stood and said to me, ‘Brother Saul, receive your sight.’ And at that same hour I looked up at him. Then he said, ‘The God of our fathers has chosen you that you should know His will, and see the Just One, and hear the voice of His mouth. For you will be His witness to all men of what you have seen and heard. (Acts 22:12-14 NKJV)
Indeed, Paul both saw and heard Jesus, which qualifies him as a “witness” for Jesus to bear His Name before kings and Gentiles.
Conclusion:
It is IMPOSSIBLE to be a “witness of the Father” because no one has seen the Father, but the Son was seen by Abraham, Moses, the elders of Israel, the disciples, and many more!
Every genuine Christian is a “Jesus Witness” and certainly NOT a “Jehovah’s Witness.”
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JWlite can be the purple pill
by Teddnzo ini really like the red pill analogy in the matrix.
the one guy wishes he didn’t take the red pill and would have preferred to take the blue pill.. many used to be pimi which is the blue pill and then they wake up to the fact that the gb are not who they claim to be which is taking the red pill.. they go through conflict and confusion as to what to believe now?
does god exist?
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Vanderhoven7
Here is an elder who took the right pill
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LET'S HELP JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES TO LOVE APOSTATES
by Terry insimple application of logic to scripture interpretation:.
if two terms mean the same thing it should not change the meaning to exchange one word for the other.. first, jesus lays the foundation for us.
let us read.. luke 6:27-37 "but i say to you who are listening, continue to love your enemies , to do good to those hating you, to bless those cursing you, to pray for those who are insulting you.
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Vanderhoven7
M.M. writes
Psychological projection by jws. They're telling you who and what they themselves are by the accusations made against the critics of the watchtower organization.
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42
What would happen to a JW for celebrating Christmas?
by Vanderhoven7 inmark jones writes:.
if they were spied upon and it was reported to the elders they’d be “invited” to a judicial committee whereupon they’d be cross examined in a locked backroom by three men acting as judge and jury to decide if they are guilty.. .
if the elders decide that they are guilty, they’ll then decide if the person is sorry.
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Vanderhoven7
M.M. writesWatchtower Bible Students actively engaged in and promoted celebrating Christmas, birthdays and Mother's Day until well after 1919. These were thought out apparently under the guidance of Jehovah's holy spirit and explained as acceptable. Now Jehovah has dictated that practising these customs is to be considered pagan or creature worship and those that participate are described as "ignorant." This makes a mockery of any claim that the Organization had a special standing in Jesus' eyes in 1919, or chose Watchtower to be his sole channel for salvation, based on it being the only Organization teaching and practicing truth. #watchtower #jw #music #cult #exjw #jehovah #song #australian #excult #australianroyalcommission -
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What would happen to a JW for celebrating Christmas?
by Vanderhoven7 inmark jones writes:.
if they were spied upon and it was reported to the elders they’d be “invited” to a judicial committee whereupon they’d be cross examined in a locked backroom by three men acting as judge and jury to decide if they are guilty.. .
if the elders decide that they are guilty, they’ll then decide if the person is sorry.
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Vanderhoven7
Heck yes! Christians should celebrate the greatest events in history and one yet to come.
The greatest events in history include:
a. Creation: God the Son creates all things, the universe, angels, man in God's image.
b. Incarnation: God the Son is conceived and born of the virgin Mary.
c. Ministry: God the Son lives a Holy and sinless life and ministers the word of God and healing to those in need.
d. Atonement: God the Son is crucified for the sin of the world and the salvation of men
e. Resurrection: God the Son rises from the grave for our justification.
f. Ascension: God the Son ascends to the Father and is enthroned in heaven.
g. Birth of the Church: God the Son baptises believers with the Holy Ghost and fire.
h. Parousia: God the Son returns to judge the world and reward His saints.
These are the greatest events, all worth celebrating daily, the last one in advance.
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What would happen to a JW for celebrating Christmas?
by Vanderhoven7 inmark jones writes:.
if they were spied upon and it was reported to the elders they’d be “invited” to a judicial committee whereupon they’d be cross examined in a locked backroom by three men acting as judge and jury to decide if they are guilty.. .
if the elders decide that they are guilty, they’ll then decide if the person is sorry.
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Vanderhoven7
When my unbaptized dad was a publisher of sorts, my Catholic mom put her foot down and we had Christmas every year as kids, saw our relatives on both sides and exchanged presents. Way to go Mom! Enough of Watchtower anti-family nonsense.