Posts by Listener

9

Lett, the lying, deceitful TURD

by Esse quam videri in

... we just felt that you dear brothers and sisters needed to be made aware of these expenditures that were facing in the coming months and years.... .

the may broadcast was just to make the 'dear brothers and sisters aware' and not to ask for more money?.

lett, the lying, deceitful turd!.

Listener

It's not a lie, they needed to make them aware so that the Brothers knew they needed money.

18

Watchtower Charter-A Danger to GB?

by TakeOffTheCrown in

the following link is a pdf of the charter for the watchtower bible and tract society of new york as of 2003:.

https://jwleaks.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/watchtower-bible-and-tract-society-of-new-york-charter-and-certificate-of-incorporation.pdf.

my question: is the governing body in danger of removal if they do not adhere to the charter?.

TOTC, there is not enough information presented to answer your question. Firstly, you have only presented the Charter of the WTBTS of New York not that of Pennsylvania. I think that the WTBTS New York is applicable to the USA whereas the WTBTS Pennsylvania is the legal entity applying worldwide. The WTBTS has so many legal entities that it is possible that their are other charters/entities that would also need to be considered in order to answer your question.

The other problem is that the Charter you do link to refers to ByLaws and these are not included. These by laws would affect the application of the Charter.

But let's look at the Charter we do have and assume that other Charter's would be similar. A quick google search suggests that the Pennslyvanian Charter does include the same wording as the New York Charter.

In particular this is the statement in the Charter that is applicable

“The purposes of the corporation are religious, educational, and charitable, including to act as the servant and legal entity for the religious body of Christian persons known as Jehovah’s Witnesses;… and do any and all other lawful things that its Board of Directors, in accordance with the spiritual direction of the ecclesiastical Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses, shall deem appropriate in harmony with those purposes.”

What stands out from reading the Charter is that it does not define who or what the Governing Body is. The only identification is that they belong (or are of) the Jehovah's Witnesses. That is why I am wondering if the Bylaws identify or establish who the Governing Body is. If it doesn't then the Government Body is not legally identifiable, it doesn't exist other than to any extent that the Jehovah's Witnesses give them at any given time.

The Charter establishes that it is to "act as the legal entity for the religious body of Christian persons in the United States known as Jehovah's Witnesses" and to support their efforts.

Is it possible that they (the Governing Body) can be removed it they violate the Charter?

No. Nothing in the charter establishes any powers in which the WTBTS can remove any religious person from any position within the JW religion. It only commits itself to acting according to the GB wishes if they are in accordance with the goals as set out in the Charter. If the GB made a request or acted in a way that was not in accordance with the Charter then the WTBTS is not to follow that direction.

The real question is, who gets to decide whether that direction is in accordance with the Charter or not? Under the Charter, that power and responsibility lies with the Directors and the GB would have to sue (or begin court action) the WTBTS if it believed that the WTBTS were not following their direction which was also in accord with the chartered aims of the WTBTS.

What is it that the WTBTS would remove the GB from anyway? The WTBTS charter does not put the GB in the position that they currently have in the first place, neither does it establish what that position is. It only recognizes that there is such a position, that is, that there is a Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses.

Note also that the Charter only allows the GB to provide spiritual direction, nothing else. Even with that spiritual direction it must still be in accord with the aims of the Charter and the responsibility to determine that (whether it is a bible truth or not) is not left to the GB but rather the directors. The Charter does not provide any direction to come from the Governing Body relating to physical or material actions. How would this work practically?

Let's say that the WTBTS wanted to sell all the Kingdom Halls that they owned and state that Halls were now be rented. The GB would be powerless to provide any direction in this matter as it would not be spiritual direction.

Another situation may be around the blood issue. The Directors may feel that blood transfusions were acceptable for JWs and that is wasn't promoting bible truths by stating that it wasn't. The GB was still of the opinion that it was unacceptable and instructed the WTBTS not to print the new directive. It would be debateable as to whether this was a spiritual direction or not but if the Directors did not believe it was in harmony with promoting bible truths then they would be forced by their own Charter not to print it as it would not be in accord with it.

The fact is, the GB need the WTBTS to promote it's ideas, the WTBTS (the Directors) are only limited to a very small degree in promotings it's own ideas.

In resigning as Directors of the WTBTS the GB clowns don't realize the power and control that they have given up so all that remains to them is to have faith and trust that the WTBTS will do their bidding.

Legal terms do get beyond me and I might be wrong regarding the following thoughts but there is also more wording in the Charter that should be closely examined, that is the phrase "and do any and all other lawful things"

“The purposes of the corporation are religious, educational, and charitable, including to act as the servant and legal entity for the religious body of Christian persons known as Jehovah’s Witnesses;… and do any and all other lawful things that its Board of Directors, in accordance with the spiritual direction of the ecclesiastical Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses, shall deem appropriate in harmony with those purposes.”

It is only after that phrase that the GB is even mentioned. Therefore it is also limiting on the authority provided to the GB. All the requirements listed prior to this are imposed on the Directors outside of any direction of the GB. This means that the Directors are required to fulfil all the aims mentioned in the Charter regardless of the direction of the GB. The GB just has the power to add to it (in spiritual matters only)

The Governing Body only exists because of two things

- the JWs believe and are willing to comply to their authority

- the degree to which the WTBTS allows

14

Need help on Resurrection

by Bella15 in

i hope all is well.

recently my uncle ( my mom's brother ) passed away, he was never a jw but evangelical christian all of his life, never accepting my moms teaching.

so my mom in facebook keeps on making references to other family members when her brother comes back in the resurrection and live in the paradise ...i thought that worldly people who is not jw will not going to be resurrected .... what is the current teaching on resurrection for nonjws?...

Listener

"No it does not because being resurrected gives you the chance to become perfect in a perfect paradise. The resurrected gradually become perfect."

This is what they teach but how would it even be possible for God, who is perfect in everything, to even resurrect someone to an imperfect state? So prior to death that person had a leg missing or had a mental illness (and we all suffer from mental illnesses to one degree or another as we are imperfect), God will resurrect persons to their imperfect state only for them to 'heal' or grow to perfection from then onwards.

6

Great Crowd Members "declared Righteous" or just "Relatively Righteous"?

by Vanderhoven7 in

does anyone have any quotes from watchtower material concerning the level of righteous previously and/or currently believed to be granted great crowd members?

Listener

W06 2/15

18. What are some truths clarified in the 1980’s?

18 In the years that followed, the path of the righteous ones continued to get brighter and brighter. In 1985 light was shed upon what it means to be declared righteous “for life” and righteous as a friend of God. (Romans 5:18; James 2:23)

14

Australian Football player Alex Rance

by Mattieu in

how can i describe alex rance?

if i was from the uk or europe, imagine your best football goal keeper.

if from the usa, imagine your best defence player in the nfl.

Listener

The attached news report provides some background information.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/why-richmonds-alex-rance-may-walk-away-20150428-1mvffg.html

His parents were introduced to the religion in 1989, about the time he was born. His father played AFL football and is a JW. It reports that Lance and his wife are JWs. His parents are supportive of him.

My hubby, who follows AFL footy, suggested that since his contract was up for renewal it would have been a good tactic to up his price by suggesting that he might give up football.

86

Updated Chronological Timeline of the Great Tribulation -- after the New Light from July Watchtower

by FusionTheism in

the july 15, 2015 study watchtower article entitled "your deliverance is getting near", along with the jw broadcasting video entitled "gerrit losch: fortified by "the prophetic word," and chapter 21 of the god's kingdom rules!

book presented a large amount of new light or clarified understanding of the events of the great tribulation.. here i am presenting it in chronological order -- this is the governing body's updated chronological order of events for the time right before the great tribulation through armageddon:.

the final sealing of the anointed occurs just prior to the outbreak of the tribulation.

Listener

Thanks for the quotes but I can't see where they believe that they will know that this final sealing has taken place (before the GT begins). From what is said in the quotes, they would only know because they have witnessed the destruction of Babylon the Great which they say occurs after the GT begins.

I am very curious about this because if they are saying that they will know that the final sealing has taken place then they will also know that the GT is imminent and if they are teaching this then they are telling the flock that they will have foreknowledge. This foreknowledge will be unprovable. The flock will just have to take their word for it because there will be no physical evidence.

3

printing a topic.

by zeb in

"kingdom hall money grab was for child abuse its completely clear.".

how do i print this article?

all i get is pages of headings.

Listener

Zeb you could try highlighting the text and copying/pasting it to a word document and print from there.

Highlight all of the text

Press control C

Open your word document

Press Control V wait for it to download then print if you are happy with the appearance.

86

Updated Chronological Timeline of the Great Tribulation -- after the New Light from July Watchtower

by FusionTheism in

the july 15, 2015 study watchtower article entitled "your deliverance is getting near", along with the jw broadcasting video entitled "gerrit losch: fortified by "the prophetic word," and chapter 21 of the god's kingdom rules!

book presented a large amount of new light or clarified understanding of the events of the great tribulation.. here i am presenting it in chronological order -- this is the governing body's updated chronological order of events for the time right before the great tribulation through armageddon:.

the final sealing of the anointed occurs just prior to the outbreak of the tribulation.

Listener

Notsurewheretogo, this is from the July 15 2015 Watchtower page 16

Thiswill not be the time to preach the

“good news of the Kingdom.” That time

will have passed. The time for “the end”

will have come! (Matt. 24:14) No doubt

God’s people will proclaim a hard-hitting

judgment message. This may well involve

a declaration announcing that Satan’swicked

world is about to come to its

complete end.

The Bible likens this message

to hailstones when it says: “Great

hailstones, each about the weight of a

talent, fell from heaven on the people,

and the people blasphemed God because

of the plague of hail, for the plague was

unusually great.”—Rev. 16:21.

10 None of this will go unnotic

The Bible likens this message

to hailstones when it says: “Great

hailstones, each about the weight of a

talent, fell from heaven on the people,

and the people blasphemed God because

of the plague of hail, for the plague was

unusually great.”—Rev. 16:21.

I am wondering where they have said that the anointed will know in their heart that the final sealing has taken place?

52

Bethel Meeting at Regional Convention

by MrTheocratic in

i decided to go to the bethel recruiting meeting yesterday to test out my theory that the organization is in decline.

i assumed that if there is a general feeling of apathy by many in the org, then certainly it would be shown up by the lack of enthusiasm or zeal by many to sign up for bethel service.

well let me say that based on what i observed, this organization is not going anywhere.

Listener

Mr Theocratic if you were there to test out a theory, how many others were in attendance to test out their theories?

37

W 15 july - members of others religions not destroyed???

by paradisebeauty in

please tell me what do you understand from this quote that is taken from w july 2015, the article your deliverance is close paragraph 5.. i understand that not all members of other religions will be destroyed at armageddon.

i talked to a jw.

he says he understands differently: they will not be destroyed when the babylon the great will be destroyed but they will be destroyed in armageddon.

Listener

"The preaching work would start to close off soon"

That's one good reason (excuse) for cutting down on printing.

They'll be preaching that the preaching work has stopped and not see the irony in it.