Posts by Listener

78

Breaking News from Steve Unthank - Police Launch Investigation into Traralgon Congregation

by Broken Promises in

australia, breaking news: police launch investigation into the rape and molestation of a number of children with the traralgon congregation of jehovah's witnesses.

jw news can report that victoria police have launched an investigation into the rape and molestation of a number of children within the traralgon congregation of jehovah's witnesses over the past two years.

according to initial reports,... the body of elders were strictly ordered by the watchtower bible and tract society of australia to cover-up the multiple rapes of a number of children within the traralgon congregation allegedly committed by a fellow member of the jehovah's witness religion.

Listener

Falcon, why are you so concerned about the specific congregation being posted?

One reason may be because an individual just has to google that congregations name and they will be directed here.

11

Shouldn't we all aim to be inspired by God?

by Listener in

reading comments on this forum makes me think about so many facets in understanding god's word and how he works.

i was very puzzled as to why djeggnog had so much trouble in trying to explain the difference between being guided by god's holy spirit and being inspired.

he stopped posting when he was cornered on this.

Listener

Phizzy, I appreciate the claim is a big one and not all believe it however that is my faith. In order to address the opening statements I needed to lay the groundwork with certain givens (imo).

Prodigal Son said "the Holy Spirit is the Divine spark within you". This is what I see as being anointed. Old Greek philosophy would take this further and exlude the external God but there is no opportunity for eternal life without him.

Dagon you express the sincere disappointment that many hold and it often leads to the conlcusion that there is no God. There is not enough information in the bible for us to fully understand the operation of God's heavenly organization and it's supernatural forces other than that he has been seriously challenged by a number of angels, headed by Satan. When we look at his physical creations we see perfect order which can become chaotic at the hands of mankind. I trust that God has chosen the only way to address the challenge.

11

Shouldn't we all aim to be inspired by God?

by Listener in

reading comments on this forum makes me think about so many facets in understanding god's word and how he works.

i was very puzzled as to why djeggnog had so much trouble in trying to explain the difference between being guided by god's holy spirit and being inspired.

he stopped posting when he was cornered on this.

Listener

I have a lot more work to do in that area Fernando, with prayer, research, reading and opening my heart I hope to come to a greater understanding. Leaving the shackles of my previous understanding as a JW has allowed me to appreciate many new things.

Thanks Cedar, it is a good reminder to advise that it is not ours to demand or even to take for granted that we have this. So many of the JWs publications would be more palatable if they only showed more humility and discernment in making there proclamations.

11

Shouldn't we all aim to be inspired by God?

by Listener in

reading comments on this forum makes me think about so many facets in understanding god's word and how he works.

i was very puzzled as to why djeggnog had so much trouble in trying to explain the difference between being guided by god's holy spirit and being inspired.

he stopped posting when he was cornered on this.

Listener

Reading comments on this forum makes me think about so many facets in understanding God's word and how he works. I was very puzzled as to why DJeggnog had so much trouble in trying to explain the difference between being guided by God's holy spirit and being inspired. He stopped posting when he was cornered on this.

Is it a problem with the english language again that there are possibly different meanings to what 'inspired' actually means? In our common usage term we are all inspired by one thing or another. It is often something that we see, hear or think that will motivate us in our actions and we could say that our actions were inspired by some thing.

To be inspired by God should not mean that we become infaliable or that what we do or say is perfect but it would motivate us to do what is right in the eyes of God. Why would any of us (believers in God) want to say that we are not inspired by God? Yet the GB say this. To be moved or guided by his holy spirit would be the same thing.

To say that God's holy spirit is operating among us and directing us may be a different matter. For his actual power or force to be in operation resulting in a particular outcome is entirely different. How we can actually identify it in a particular situation today is not so clear. The WTs often relate an experience with the suggestion that God has had his hand in a particular situation. Possibly a bit presumptuos but it is also accepted that as good works have resulted it must have been so. Certainly where we see the flow of 'fruits of the spirit' we can be more confident that God's spirit is shining.

The JWs would have us believe that it is simply because the bible is inspired by God that it is infallible but I am wondering if they are misrepresenting the term inspiration here. It is clear (to those that have faith that the bible is God's word) that it is accurate because God 'spoke' directly to those that wrote it. Whether that was through visions, dreams or physically. That is what makes it infallible, by the operation of God's holy spirit to work miracously in directly providing information to the bible writers.

Why the GB would want to claim that they are not inspired by God is a bit of a revelation.

Acknowledging that the bible writers were given special gifts from God in order for his word to reach us and for it to be infallible is accepted by many. That these gifts no longer exist then brings up the question of how is it that the Canon exists as it is today and could it possibly be incorrect or incomplete? Generally it is not accepted as being so. I understand the Canon as being formulated in the 2nd Century and by people who the JWs reject as being 'God's people', yet without the miraculous gifts no longer in operation how was God's holy spirit able to ensure that his message was not corrupted? If we accept that it wasn't then God's holy spirit operates in ways that we do not understand (in physical terms)- or at least I am trying to understand. I don't doubt that God has protected his message and preserved it down to this day. If that is the case then what is he doing for the JWs in protecting their interpretation of the bible and the messages that they forumalte together in their publications that aren't worth preserving or protecting as they keep changing? It would appear that God's holy spirit has no 'physical' application for them even though it was in relation to the bible canon.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

179

The Watchtower is NOT a false prophet

by The Quiet One in

regarding what some have said here about the wt being a false prophet.. i would like to make my point regarding the wt not being a false prophet... so please, if you can be patient enough to read this, at least try to understand what i am getting at.. a false prophet is one who, according to deuteronomy, makes a false prediction of the future and claims that the prediction came from god, or in other words claiming that 'god has said he will do a certain thing at a certain time' etc.. for example, hypothetically speaking, if someone had claimed: "god will bring about the end of the world in 2010", they would have been proven to be a false prophet, obviously.

but, as an example, imagine a man who claimed the position of a prophet of god, (as moses did, because although he was not the type of prophet that predicted the future.. he was still a prophet or spokesman for god) and that he had publicised worldwide, according to his interpretation of a (for example) prophecy found in the book of isaiah, that the world would end in 2010.. and he had also stated that he was not saying that god will end the world in that year.. but only that there was biblical evidence that god might do so.

that would clearly have been a mistake.

Listener

Putting aside the question of whether they have made false predictions or not there is another aspect to what they have done.

They declare themselves as God's only true spokesman (or 'prophet'). What they have done in speculating is to set dates yet the Jesus taught that no-one knows the day or the hour. Even if it is their over-enthusiasm they have gone beyond what the bible teaches.

25

A BIG change the Watchtower will have to face up to . . .

by nicolaou in

1995 drew a line of demarcation.

the doctrinal rudder of freddie franz was gone, the sacred cow of the 1914-generation had been slaughtered and the internet had arrived!.

it will take a while longer but the time is coming when pre-1995 old timers like the gentleman below will be an impotent force within the society - if that hasn't happened already.

Listener

You have a good point there Nicolaou.

We are living in the information age and many of us with enquiring minds now how to easily access it. The older ones are unfortunately dying off but with it, so is the innocence.

It seems ironic that for so many years the WT has discouraged higher education, now just about any informations is at our fingertips.

179

The Watchtower is NOT a false prophet

by The Quiet One in

regarding what some have said here about the wt being a false prophet.. i would like to make my point regarding the wt not being a false prophet... so please, if you can be patient enough to read this, at least try to understand what i am getting at.. a false prophet is one who, according to deuteronomy, makes a false prediction of the future and claims that the prediction came from god, or in other words claiming that 'god has said he will do a certain thing at a certain time' etc.. for example, hypothetically speaking, if someone had claimed: "god will bring about the end of the world in 2010", they would have been proven to be a false prophet, obviously.

but, as an example, imagine a man who claimed the position of a prophet of god, (as moses did, because although he was not the type of prophet that predicted the future.. he was still a prophet or spokesman for god) and that he had publicised worldwide, according to his interpretation of a (for example) prophecy found in the book of isaiah, that the world would end in 2010.. and he had also stated that he was not saying that god will end the world in that year.. but only that there was biblical evidence that god might do so.

that would clearly have been a mistake.

Listener

The quiet one, you acknowledge that Moses and David were appointed by God. This was clear and irrefutable. They recieved physical signs testifying to this fact, they were given the power and authority from God to be prophets.

21

So "The Quiet One" now has a problem with my domestic abuse article...

by cedars in

sorry about this, i generally don't like confrontation of any kind, but a situation has arisen on another thread, and i thought i would give the quiet one the opportunity to explain her reasons as to why she dislikes my article on domestic abuse without hijacking someone else's thread in the process.. the sad thing is, i had an entire thread devoted to publicizing this article and receiving feedback, but he/she chose not to say anything on that thread, but have a go at me on an entirely unrelated thread.. anyway, i'm copying and pasting the whole conversation so that both sides of the argument can be seen.. a copy of the offending article can be found here: "'won without a word' - at what cost?".

i'm not necessarily asking anyone else to join in the discussion, although you are welcome to do so if you wish to add anything.

the purpose of this thread is to give "the quiet one" the platform that he/she evidently craves to criticize the article in public (i have offered to discuss this over pms, but that offer hasn't been taken).. so anyway, sorry about this folks... (sigh).

Listener

Cedars, it sounds like this person took on the duty of trying to do some damage control. This may have been official or unofficial but comes across as a person with a mission. Seems like they were trying to plead with you not to interpret the article to put them in such a bad light (even though they've brought this on themselves but wouldn't admit this).

I'm astounded at this comment from the quite one

..." I'm only suggesting that people should base their accusations on what is printed, not what they think was meant.. The best way is just quoting the words, and even the article as a whole to give context, as an unbiased journalist would do and then letting people decide for themselves or enquire as to what was meant to the person/organisation that made the statement. Just something for people to think about"...

If only the org took that advise themselves instead of putting their spin on the bible. How many times have they quoted a whole bible chapter or even explained the context from which a quoted text was written?

There are copyright issues when quoting a whole article and the org has themselves put up a hurdle in this area.

The suggestion about making an enquiry to the organisation is laughable, especially with the recent advise regarding writing letters. The org neither wants nor appreciates advise and they've explained how thorough they are when writing and researching for articles.

It is annoying to see the word prophet being interpreted on the same terms as one who teaches or preaches about God, there is a difference but they will not acknowledge it.

74

Two Elders just left.

by mouthy in

jw
friends

how wonderful it was... i saw two women over the road knocking on doors .

i could see they were jws...i prayed & asked they would call here... but no!!!!

the lord sent two men!!!!elders!!!!

Listener

That visit sounded very emotional. It must be hard for some of the elders to reconcile the concept of love for others at times.

79

Victoria, Australia: The long edition (new) of Part 2 of Steven Unthank's report of molestation/rape within the Traralgon Cong.

by AndersonsInfo in

http://www.jwnews.net/.

crisis of conscience within the traralgon congregation of jehovahs witnesses?

part 2december 18, 2011 by sitepost .

Listener

Thanks for the reply Barbara. I had no idea it could take so long for action to be taken, especially since it is claimed that the accussed confessed to several JW members.

Unfortunately there is no madatory reporting required in Victoria by priests/elders.

Barbara, you pointed out that it is now okay for JWnews to report on this matter and I hope it is also okay for information to be included in that report that would identify to many people who the accused person is. This was done by stating the congregation he has been moved to and the following comment "This serious allegation is compounded by the fact that the alleged child molester is the son of a senior Jehovah’s Witness elder who is part of the Watch Tower Society’s legal team in Australia."

Steven Unthank has taken so much on board, I hope he is able to cope with all this stress although it is easier to bare when you know you are doing the right thing. This latest report must have added tremendous burden to his already difficult pursuit.