Posts by Listener

7

What the Org Teaches #5 "God's" Law on Shunning is Flexible For Elders!

by The Searcher in

parents are forced by the org to regard their disfellowshipped children as if they were dead, non-existent - even if their child was in dire straits.

's feel when they hear that it's ok for elders to try and encourage disfellowshipped ones back to the org, but they can't?.

what the org says: km 8/02 p. 4 par.

Listener

Agree totally The Searcher.

Is the shunning principle greater than the 'necessary family business' principle or not and how do they decide? When all involved are independent adults why is there even an exception for necessary family business?

There are situations where a mature woman would be more suitable in discussing issues with another female than any Elder and there could be no scriptural principle prohibiting this policy, specially if it was instigated at the direction of an Elder.

When it comes to policies like shunning, I don't doubt they come up with ideas that they think will benefit the organization the most and then find bible scriptures to fit, no matter how loosely they might relate.

2

I don't expect this to be believed, I find it hard...

by Slidin Fast in

i was disfellowshipped three times in all and on every occasion fought to come back for reasons known to most here, family.. the second time, i steeled myself to attend the meeting for the announcement and one of the elders who had been on my committee concluded the meeting.. he asked me to conclude with prayer!

is that the quickest reinstatement on the planet?

"go, you are dead to me.

Listener

I can believe that Slidin Fast. They are like robots and operate on procedures and formalities that real life does not compute.

Was there any 'damage control' by the Elders?

19

Watchtower Nov 2016 - Instructions for Apostates

by Listener in

the november 2016 watchtower is now available and it has more new light but i can't quite figure out what they are saying.

it relates to when the jws were released from the captivity of babylon the great (false religion).

i am not attempting to discuss that in this post.

Listener

The November 2016 Watchtower is now available and it has more new light but I can't quite figure out what they are saying. It relates to when the JWs were released from the captivity of Babylon the Great (false religion). I am not attempting to discuss that in this post. Rather, it also provides information on suggestions regarding getting out of the JW religion, since it is also a false religion.

The first article is titled "Released from Darkness" and the second is "They broke free from false religion". It's the second article that has some good information. You've really got to wonder whether some of these writers are awake and providing help to apostates.

3 God-fearing men and women knew what they must do. They could not expect to receive God’s blessing if they continued to support false religious organizations. Consequently, many Bible Students prepared letters of withdrawal from their churches. In some cases, they read the letters publicly at church meetings. Where a public reading was forbidden, some sent copies to every member of the church. They wanted no further dealings with false religion! In another era, such a bold move would have cost them dearly. But in many countries in the late 1800’s,the church was beginning to lose the backing ofthe State. Without fear of reprisals in such countries, citizens were free to discuss religious matters and to disagree openly with the established churches.

This paragraph encourages apostates to be bold because, after all, there is no law on speaking out boldly. One suggestion is to read out a disassociation letter in front of the whole congregation. No doubt, in reality, it wouldn't be long before you were stopped and escorted out, but it demonstrates a real conviction to get out of false religion, just like the early Russelites (and many other individuals who were freeing themselves from false religion).

Another suggestion is to send copies of a DA letter to every member in the congregation.

I love the last sentence that makes it clear that we are free to openly discuss religious matters and disagree with established religions.

Unfortunately, unlike those early Russellites , although they did not have any reprisals from various Governments around the world, those that disassociate today can find themselves with harsh repercussions by the loss of family and friends. It is not so easy but we are not being jailed or killed for our convictions as many faced in centuries gone by.

It is interesting to consider this separation of state and religion began probably around the 18th or 19th Century. It is a very significant event as it gives us the religious freedom that we have today. I wonder why the JWs have not assigned a bible prophecy to that event?

The Bible Students understood that it was not enough for them to inform relatives, close friends, and church members of their stand on false religion. The whole world needed to see Babylon the Great for what it is—a religious prostitute! Accordingly, between December 1917 and early 1918, the few thousand Bible Students zealously distributed 10,000,000 copies of a tract featuring the subject “The Fall of Babylon”—a hard-hitting indictment of Christendom. As you can imagine, the clergy were furious; but undeterred, the Bible Students kept right on with this important work. They were determined to obey “God as ruler rather than men.” (Acts 5:29) What can we conclude? That far from becoming enslaved to Babylon the Great during the war,these Christian men and women were breaking free from its influence and were helping others to do so.

Informing every JW we know is not enough, we could do more. Distributing thousands of tracts these days is not realistic, efficient or economical, fortunately we have other means of spreading the message. We do this via the internet and word of mouth as well as other means. We can be thankful that it is within most of our means that we are able to spread the word. No doubt, the organization would say it was Satan who was providing this effective method for us today, yet they could hardly do so when the utilize the same method more and more.

What have we found? Just as the Russelites experienced, the religious leaders are furious. The JW religion wish to shut us down, they tighten the hold on their fold and they call us all kinds of despicable names, they'll even call the higher authorities to act against us if they can get away with it. We are encouraged to remain undeterred, not letting their sly remarks of telling us to 'move on' and to leave peacefully.

The encouragement here is that we can break free from it's influence and even help others to do so. Continue that fine fight.

14

The Last Supper

by Teddy in

i have been studying with the jw since june of 2016 and they say only the ones who make up the 144.

000 and can partake of the bread and cup.

is this true?.

Listener

The organization goes into great depth explaining who shouldn't partake yet they can't explain how those who think they are anointed believe this to be so and they tell you it would be rude to ask them.

59

Morning Woship: Kenneth Flodin targets "apostates"

by Sanchy in

jw
friends

video is entitled "beware of deceit" he uses the letter of jude to show that current day apostates are deceitful and that they use "trickery" to and "twist facts" to try to "grab our mind".

warning: your head might explode.

especially past the 5:30 mark.

Listener

Boroean Pickets has done a thorough review on this talk if you're interested

http://beroeans.net/2016/07/28/beware-of-deceit/

15

What the Org Teaches #4 There Are Two Ways to Get Sins Wiped Out

by The Searcher in

#4 there are two ways to get sins wiped outthe following five scriptures lay the foundation stone of christianity, namely, that christ died for people's sins.

virtually every christian denomination on earth accepts these bible statements without question: .

(matthew 26:28) "....this means my ‘blood of the covenant,’ which is to be poured out in behalf of many for forgiveness of sins.

Listener

The org. also teaches that it depends on what sort of sin is being committed. 6 months ago there was a demonstration presented on the monthly JW broadcast and they classified sin into three groups, using bread loaves to demonstrate it

All loaves were slightly smeared with garlic powder, indicating that everyone was imperfect.

The first loaf was spoiled with a toxic dye and represented someone committing the unforgivable sin. This could not be removed and the loaf was useless and put in the rubbish bin

The second loaf was muddied which represented an individual committing a gross sin. The muddied part could be cut off and the rest of the loaf was acceptable.

The third loaf was doused with an extra dose of garlic powder, this represented 'grieving the holy spirit' and was fixed by dusting the additional garlic powder off and it was then good to go.

The unforgivable sin cannot be forgiven but the org. have given up on giving examples of what would qualify as an unforgivable sin.

5

My Last Study Unit - Sigh!!! - If only I'd studied it 65 years ago

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

semester 2 commences next monday, and the study unit i'm taking will be my last as a undergraduate.

i've spent 8 years wandering around asian (west and east) history, and i should have graduated a year ago, but mu now has a rule that all ugs must take a two units of study outside their field of study.. so starting monday i will apply my mind to the question implicit in the unit's title: .

why people believe weird things: making rational decision's in an irrational world.. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------.

Listener

If you get the chance, it would be great if you could post some of the highlights you come across or conclude.

I imagine that after 8 years you will miss your studies. Some people continue to study their whole life and find ways of contributing to society.

37

Just a little anecdote illustrating how out of touch the typical JW is

by sir82 in

jw
friends

this weeks book study lesson was on martha, the sister of lazarus.

the chapter in the "imitate their faith" book praised her for being "industrious".. the conductor at our congregation meeting was just positively gushing about how "industrious" modern-day jw women are.. he was so exciting, he could barely get the words out.

following is not an exact quote, but conveys the gist:.

Listener

Xjwsrock, what upsets you more about the song, the words or the females, on display, dancing half naked?

Whenever I hear that song it reminds me of the Sadie vacuum cleaner, I can't remember what came first, the song or the vacuum cleaner. The song was really seen as just a bit of light hearted fun, I don't think anyone saw it as role playing.

8

Syllabus

by Duncan in

jw
friends

haven't posted in years, but thought i would today, since something reminded me of this story..

it's 1970 in our london-suburb congregation and it's the circuit overseer visit.

as part of his talk on the saturday night this co - john anderson, anyone remember him?

Listener

Thanks for the laugh Duncan.

13

HOW the WatchTower leaders flipped the script on Christianity

by TerryWalstrom in

worship of jesus was declared to be an act of idolatry!.

we are going to examine the cataclysmic changeover in christian teaching exploding inside the watchtower religion in the early 50’s by exploring a background of the history of jesus’ place in christianity.

jw teaching about the nature of jesus’ importance in the salvation of mankind will be compared with christian history.

Listener

There is a lot to take in and the following comments just discuss one aspect.

There's a Youtuber who has just uploaded a video titled "Who or What is God's Channel?" He's not a JW but I think he wrote a paper on JWs as part of his Uni Studies and continues to be interested in the relgion.

In summary he states that according to the Watchtower you cannot question or challenge or disagree with that Chanel. Yet they are teaching things that are not true. Just reading the Finished Mystery will prove that.

He claims that God's channel of communication is not man or any group of men but it is through man and it is a matter of whether we, or anyone, utilizes his channel. His channel being his infallible word, the bible.

An example is when Peter helped the eunuch to understand the bible. Peter didn't act as the channel, the channel was the bible, Peter acted as a supplement. Peter explains what God's channel is saying.

He sees this viewpoint as much more bionically correct and consistent (when you look at how God's channel operated through biblical times) because God's channel should always be viewed as infallible, always inspired and should never be disagreed with because what God says is Truth and cannot be wrong.

So in contrast, the Governing Body are fallible, non-inspired, error prone men, who should be questioned when they are teaching something that is false.

He raises some good questions -

When the GB teaches something that is false what are the biblical grounds for choosing to believe them anyway?

When the GB teaches something that is false, what are the biblical grounds for condemnation when the GB is rightly challenged for teaching something that is false?

If it is always wrong to question what was even recognized as God's Channel of communication then would it have been wrong for a 1st century Jew, before Jesus, to challenge the Pharisees (who were God's channel at that time)?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4keJNyANqrU

One of his many points was that the Pharisees would have felt that they were Gods Chanel of communication and couldn't be question but Jesus entered the scene and questioned these leaders. So we have the situation where it was possible to challenge this Chanel.