Posts by Listener

19

Jeehoober says we can clap for reinstated ones!!

by DATA-DOG in

so, i guess an upcoming wt has some new light on clapping!

evidently, jesus has misinformed the gb/wtbts since the late 90's.

clapping was disrespectful, because jesus felt that those who were df'd should not be given a pat on the back.

Listener

Does not compute.....warning, warning .....overload.

7

Sanchy's critique: Nov 2016 Watchtower Study Articles

by Sanchy in

jw
friends

what follows is my critique of the two final study articles from the november 2016 watchtower.

the articles titles are: "called out of the darkness" and "they broke free from false religion".. article: called out of the darkness.

parr 1. in 607 b.c.e., a massive babylonian army under the command of king nebuchadnezzar ii invaded the city of jerusalem.. .

Listener

Great review Sanchy, there's an important footnote that I overlooked when I first read the article. It gives a little insight as to their new way of thinking.

I'll post it when I get on my computer unless someone posts it in the meantime.

10

A conversation with my ultra dub relative

by joe134cd in

here's a conversation i just had with my relative a few minutes ago i'll let you decide.. relative : would you like to read your grandfather the days txt (she passes joe the phone).

joe : sure.

(then proceed to read it to my grandfather and explain it).. after discussing the points joe says to relative.. hey what's the story arnt they printing books any more.. relative : no they arnt necessary any more.. joe : really why is that.. relative : it's all on line.

Listener

You're deluded and it was just a one off, personal experience that you had.

You're relative was basically calling you a liar.

22

I'm gonna sue those f€$¥kers

by moley in

well the ball has started rolling, gonna sue, can't go into to much detail.

time for some payback .

Listener

All the best Moley. You know where it hurts them the most, not so much the money but having to reveal information they want hidden. I bet their settlement offers have tripled these days. I'm sure your lawyers should be able to get some advice from the Zelken lawyers if you're not using them already.

19

Watchtower Nov 2016 - Instructions for Apostates

by Listener in

the november 2016 watchtower is now available and it has more new light but i can't quite figure out what they are saying.

it relates to when the jws were released from the captivity of babylon the great (false religion).

i am not attempting to discuss that in this post.

Listener

DOC - BIG F...ING DEAL!
I'm sure no one really gave a sh!t then either, but to be waving it like a flag at this point in time is simply BS. Anyone who even saw the tract, or who thought they were accomplishing something by distributing them, IS DEAD. It was all a waste of time as, once again, nothing happened -- and now, 100 years later, still nothing has happened.
YAWN!
Doc

The point of the article was to prove that they had been very active in getting out of false religion during the years 1918 to 1919. The previous Governing Body, probably Franz & Co. had taught that the org was captive of Babylon the Great during those years.

They presented it as new light earlier this year in a QFR and have gone into more detail in this article. All they are really doing is arguing with the teachings of a previous Governing Body, showing that they know better than them.

It is no big deal and all that they printed way back then is not even in print today.

19

Watchtower Nov 2016 - Instructions for Apostates

by Listener in

the november 2016 watchtower is now available and it has more new light but i can't quite figure out what they are saying.

it relates to when the jws were released from the captivity of babylon the great (false religion).

i am not attempting to discuss that in this post.

Listener

Data Dog, what you say is very insightful and for the most part, accurate.

I love your point about them showing a DA letter being read out in front of a church by a woman. It further distances it as being applicable in their own religion.

<<"Data Dog - Think of it this way. How often do women stay with an abuser? Some even allow their children to suffer abuse, because they won't leave their man. Faithful JW women are like that, they are actually weak, dominated by a male-driven organization. They are having their egos played like a fiddle, but they love it, they want it, they need it. They need to be "special.">>"

Having been in a physically abusive relationship I can say that this is not true of me and I believe many other females, we don't love it, want it, need it or feel special. Men can take on such a dominating role that it is very difficult to leave. The biggest reason I found it hard to leave was out of fear for my life. Fortunately I had a friend who was able to help me get away but not without more violence. The police said we shouldn't lay charges, a lawyer advised me not to get a restraining order as it might incite more violence (and he did not charge me for his services). I had nightmares for years afterwards even though I had left no trail of my whereabouts. Anyway, I guess I found the comment a little insensitive.

Maybe females like to feel that they are martyrs. If their husband leaves it is an opportunity of showing how faithful they are to the org. regardless of their own personal loss, which, when all is said and done means little to them and can be discarded without feeling it is too great a sacrifice.

However, I understand the point you were driving at. Interestingly I think you've come up with the reason why so many JWs are on medications. For one reason or another they can't get out and this is there only way of handling the situation.

Also, the Org. realizes these dynamics and has tried to make it more attractive for men. Appointing them to positions where they have authority and attention. Years ago you would only find about 3 Elders in a congregation, that number has nearly doubled these days. Their authority cannot be challenged by the r&f, they are given a degree of freedom in the way they behave, they are judges, lords and princes over the congregation.

7

What the Org Teaches #5 "God's" Law on Shunning is Flexible For Elders!

by The Searcher in

parents are forced by the org to regard their disfellowshipped children as if they were dead, non-existent - even if their child was in dire straits.

's feel when they hear that it's ok for elders to try and encourage disfellowshipped ones back to the org, but they can't?.

what the org says: km 8/02 p. 4 par.

Listener

Agree totally The Searcher.

Is the shunning principle greater than the 'necessary family business' principle or not and how do they decide? When all involved are independent adults why is there even an exception for necessary family business?

There are situations where a mature woman would be more suitable in discussing issues with another female than any Elder and there could be no scriptural principle prohibiting this policy, specially if it was instigated at the direction of an Elder.

When it comes to policies like shunning, I don't doubt they come up with ideas that they think will benefit the organization the most and then find bible scriptures to fit, no matter how loosely they might relate.

2

I don't expect this to be believed, I find it hard...

by Slidin Fast in

i was disfellowshipped three times in all and on every occasion fought to come back for reasons known to most here, family.. the second time, i steeled myself to attend the meeting for the announcement and one of the elders who had been on my committee concluded the meeting.. he asked me to conclude with prayer!

is that the quickest reinstatement on the planet?

"go, you are dead to me.

Listener

I can believe that Slidin Fast. They are like robots and operate on procedures and formalities that real life does not compute.

Was there any 'damage control' by the Elders?

19

Watchtower Nov 2016 - Instructions for Apostates

by Listener in

the november 2016 watchtower is now available and it has more new light but i can't quite figure out what they are saying.

it relates to when the jws were released from the captivity of babylon the great (false religion).

i am not attempting to discuss that in this post.

Listener

The November 2016 Watchtower is now available and it has more new light but I can't quite figure out what they are saying. It relates to when the JWs were released from the captivity of Babylon the Great (false religion). I am not attempting to discuss that in this post. Rather, it also provides information on suggestions regarding getting out of the JW religion, since it is also a false religion.

The first article is titled "Released from Darkness" and the second is "They broke free from false religion". It's the second article that has some good information. You've really got to wonder whether some of these writers are awake and providing help to apostates.

3 God-fearing men and women knew what they must do. They could not expect to receive God’s blessing if they continued to support false religious organizations. Consequently, many Bible Students prepared letters of withdrawal from their churches. In some cases, they read the letters publicly at church meetings. Where a public reading was forbidden, some sent copies to every member of the church. They wanted no further dealings with false religion! In another era, such a bold move would have cost them dearly. But in many countries in the late 1800’s,the church was beginning to lose the backing ofthe State. Without fear of reprisals in such countries, citizens were free to discuss religious matters and to disagree openly with the established churches.

This paragraph encourages apostates to be bold because, after all, there is no law on speaking out boldly. One suggestion is to read out a disassociation letter in front of the whole congregation. No doubt, in reality, it wouldn't be long before you were stopped and escorted out, but it demonstrates a real conviction to get out of false religion, just like the early Russelites (and many other individuals who were freeing themselves from false religion).

Another suggestion is to send copies of a DA letter to every member in the congregation.

I love the last sentence that makes it clear that we are free to openly discuss religious matters and disagree with established religions.

Unfortunately, unlike those early Russellites , although they did not have any reprisals from various Governments around the world, those that disassociate today can find themselves with harsh repercussions by the loss of family and friends. It is not so easy but we are not being jailed or killed for our convictions as many faced in centuries gone by.

It is interesting to consider this separation of state and religion began probably around the 18th or 19th Century. It is a very significant event as it gives us the religious freedom that we have today. I wonder why the JWs have not assigned a bible prophecy to that event?

The Bible Students understood that it was not enough for them to inform relatives, close friends, and church members of their stand on false religion. The whole world needed to see Babylon the Great for what it is—a religious prostitute! Accordingly, between December 1917 and early 1918, the few thousand Bible Students zealously distributed 10,000,000 copies of a tract featuring the subject “The Fall of Babylon”—a hard-hitting indictment of Christendom. As you can imagine, the clergy were furious; but undeterred, the Bible Students kept right on with this important work. They were determined to obey “God as ruler rather than men.” (Acts 5:29) What can we conclude? That far from becoming enslaved to Babylon the Great during the war,these Christian men and women were breaking free from its influence and were helping others to do so.

Informing every JW we know is not enough, we could do more. Distributing thousands of tracts these days is not realistic, efficient or economical, fortunately we have other means of spreading the message. We do this via the internet and word of mouth as well as other means. We can be thankful that it is within most of our means that we are able to spread the word. No doubt, the organization would say it was Satan who was providing this effective method for us today, yet they could hardly do so when the utilize the same method more and more.

What have we found? Just as the Russelites experienced, the religious leaders are furious. The JW religion wish to shut us down, they tighten the hold on their fold and they call us all kinds of despicable names, they'll even call the higher authorities to act against us if they can get away with it. We are encouraged to remain undeterred, not letting their sly remarks of telling us to 'move on' and to leave peacefully.

The encouragement here is that we can break free from it's influence and even help others to do so. Continue that fine fight.

14

The Last Supper

by Teddy in

i have been studying with the jw since june of 2016 and they say only the ones who make up the 144.

000 and can partake of the bread and cup.

is this true?.

Listener

The organization goes into great depth explaining who shouldn't partake yet they can't explain how those who think they are anointed believe this to be so and they tell you it would be rude to ask them.