No, you're wrong. Your mixing up the two defintions of theory.
OK. If you like, we can call it a hypothesis, instead.
and i feel a little sheepish.. check this out:.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/plate_tectonics.
^ plate tectonics (from the late latintectonicus, from the greek: ?
No, you're wrong. Your mixing up the two defintions of theory.
OK. If you like, we can call it a hypothesis, instead.
and i feel a little sheepish.. check this out:.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/plate_tectonics.
^ plate tectonics (from the late latintectonicus, from the greek: ?
Mad Sweeney: Creation is not a scientific theory.
No, but a theory nevertheless, which proports to explain life and all its complexity in competition with the (scientific) theory of evolution. See definition below. 1, 2 and 3 relate to scientific theory, 4, 5 and 6 fit non-scientific theory.
the·o·ry (th-r, thîr)
n.pl.the·o·ries 1. A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena. 2. The branch of a science or art consisting of its explanatory statements, accepted principles, and methods of analysis, as opposed to practice: a fine musician who had never studied theory. 3. A set of theorems that constitute a systematic view of a branch of mathematics. 4. Abstract reasoning; speculation: a decision based on experience rather than theory. 5. A belief or principle that guides action or assists comprehension or judgment: staked out the house on the theory that criminals usually return to the scene of the crime. 6. An assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture.
i've been married to the same wonderful woman for 37 years.
she's been a jehovah's witness for 33 of those years, i am not.
i studied with the wbts for a couple of years beginning late 1974 before deciding it wasn't for me.
Carla, if I may ask, how did you broach the subject of the Society being chosen by Jesus in 1919 and what was your husband's reaction and response?
and i feel a little sheepish.. check this out:.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/plate_tectonics.
^ plate tectonics (from the late latintectonicus, from the greek: ?
Evolution is a theory. It cannot be anything else because it cannot be proven by observation. Creation, by definition, is also just a theory. When there exists two theories purporting to explain the same phenomenon, one must go to the evidence and discard one of them. This is Ocham's Razor, which relies for its effect on disposing unnecessary assumptions and accepting the first sufficient explanation or cause. There is a mountain of evidence to support the theory of evolution through natural selection. There is no evidence, none whatsoever, to support the theory of creation by magic.
my parents learned the truth when i was about 2 years old or so and they got baptized when i was 4.. they came from ukraine from the former soviet union and i was born months after they came to brooklyn.. they started studying with a sister who was american and joined the first russian group in brooklyn.. my brother was born when i was 5. we moved to staten island when i was 8 or 9.. ever since i was 14 or 15, i realized an attraction to guys.. of course, i kept on putting it off as a phase or an "everyone feels this way" excuse.. and yes, i had lots of crushes on guys, but i didn't tell others because it was hard to face the facts.. around 18 years of age, we were having our family study and my dad said that if a person even has gay thoughts then they can't be a pioneer, etc.. and he was an elder and a coordinator of the body of elders.. i got depressed and cried for days and eventually this got me to feel the need to tell someone about it.. i told my 14 year old brother (the other younger one is 7) about it because he keeps his mouth shut all the time.. he didn't react at all really.
eventually i felt like i had to tell my pioneer mom about it (by the way, i've been pioneering since 18 years of age due to knowing that that would be the only reason why my dad would pay for my college education).. she reacted with mixed feelings of denial, also attacking me and making it look like i'm disgusting, immoral, this and that.... eventually i told someone my age about this in my congregation, as he was also a neighbor of ours.
he was a bit more feminine acting, though i wasn't sure if he was gay or not (though the sisters had their rumors) (i'm more of the masc type it seems).
You've been quite active on this board, bottleofwater. I perceive that you are either enjoying the unfettered conversation or are maybe its getting you wound up tight as a clockspring. Not all the advice you are getting here is necessarily helpful, unless lonliness and self destruction are options. Maybe you need to take a long walk, get away from this stuff for awhile, clear your head a bit. Find someone to talk to, someone who will listen to you and allow you to bounce feelings off of him, or her, without overlaying their own baggage, someone you know and trust. Nobody in here. Everybody in here has an agenda, you and me included. That's why we are here. Your first priority as I see it is to figure out a way to buy some time to get your shit together, to figure out what you're going to do with yourself. It's looking pretty clear that the WTBTS is not one of your options, for reasons that are patently obvious from your various posts. Strike out on your own, but do it in stages and don't lose your family in the process. Whatever you think of them, regardless of the mindless pap they have shovelled into your brain over the years, they are more important to you, and you to them, than you can possibly know. Someone in one of the earlier threads you started gave you very good advice and that is to fade. So fade.
I'd wish you luck, but I don't believe in it. Whatever happens going forward will be a consequence of what you decide to do. Take your time.
okay, i wanted to know more about the jws, so i went to the website and filled in my name and other info.
i was finally contacted, set up an appointment and visited.
the first two people came and they were nice, but one of the fellows looked uptight and avoided eye contact.
Why did Trinitarians slaughter and subjugate humans on 6 continents, steal their land and force them by threat of death to accept your version of God.
It seems to me, designs, that you are disdainful of the trinity doctrine but nevertheless religious? I agree, the trinity doctrine is nonsense, but citing the atrocities of crusading trinitarians is like drawing attention to one particular wart on a toad. You don't have to look any farther than the old testament to find atrocities of the most heinous nature committed by non-trinitarians, like the genocidal slaughters wrought by Abraham, Joshua and Moses, if only to touch on a chosen few, all at the behest of a loving god. Fundamentalist Muslims (who don't believe in the trinity, either) flying planes into skyscrapers, undertaking "ethnic cleansing" or beheading women who have dared to expose an ankle, Tamil Hindus (multiple gods) blowing themselves up in the midst of market crowds, paganistic National Socialists (non trinitarians, all) incinerating millions.
Maybe this is just the pot and kettle conversation. All religions have the blood of innocents on their hands.
my dad read something online that i posted and told the other elders (he's the boe coord.).
they've read me articles about homosexuality and tried to coerce me to stay with the family instead of living with my uncle for a week.
i went to my uncle's anyway.
Are you trying not to get DF'd? Whatever gets me out with as little stress and anxiety as possible
I'm sure you are aware, bottleofwater, that you will indeed be DF'ed if you leave with a bang rather than fade away. If you are DF'ed you will put your parents in an awkward situation of choosing between you and the WTBTS. From my admittedly limited experience I can tell you this will result in a world of hurt for everyone concerned, you in particular. Keep your temper, be deferential and respectful, but stand your ground. You want a little time to think about your path in life (no need to say 10-20 years should be enough) and you will ask for input when you feel the need. Remember that the objective is to be left alone, not to go to war when you cannot win.
i've been married to the same wonderful woman for 37 years.
she's been a jehovah's witness for 33 of those years, i am not.
i studied with the wbts for a couple of years beginning late 1974 before deciding it wasn't for me.
You are obviously as frustrated as I am, Carla. But, no, she doesn't leave WT literature lying around the house. She has a large collection of books and magazines but keeps them sequestered in her sewing room, which is a space all her own. In deference I do not keep contrarian books lying around, either. I suppose this is similar to your silent rule. How unfortunate, however, that we need silent rules at all.
I have a pretty good relationship with my wife's JW associates, with one or two exceptions. There is one, an elder, who has shown up uninvited at the house on occasion, accompanied by telltail signs of nervousness in my wife's body language. I suspect he has come to assess the "situation", although he has not come out and stated such, which is good because I might otherwise find it difficult to reign in my ire. I have little respect for the man because he seems to have a feigned respect for me, but also because he is not very bright yet overconfident in the illusion of authority he assumes upon himself. There are others, however, I respect a great deal, in spite of the fallacy of their beliefs. These are articulate, intelligent and accomplished people who, to their credit, studiously avoid conversations of a Watchtower nature, if you know what I mean. Regardless, I do not mind having these people in my home so long as they honor the unspoken detente protocol. The gloves might come off the moment they do not.
It seems, Carla, that you and I have the same problem and, if you will permit me to be candid, that problem extends into our approach, which is clearly not working. Reading over Chris' advice above it could be that maybe he is onto something. What is it you, and I, want to accomplish? If the objective is to free your mate from the chains of this organization then going to battle against him is likely going to bolster the opposite outcome. He will become further entrenched and his Kingdom Hall associates will close ranks around him and you will not be allowed to get through. I think that love and patience (control) may be the answer, while dismantling the wall between the two of you one brick at a time. The approach of doing your homework, posing a single question and sticking to the subject gently but tenaciously seems a sound strategy - and just maybe extracting a single structural brick, to continue the analogy, will cause the wall to come tumbling down. But what question to ask? I am gleaning from conversations on this board that the subject of the Watchtower doctrine of having been examined by Christ himself and approved as Jehovah's organization in 1919 may be the one. I believe this is the approach that is recommended by Don Cameron in his book "Captives of a Concept", which I have yet to acquire and read.
Chris, could you expand on things?
hi guys!
im very new here and i need a little help.. im not a witness, but i know all of the quirks and rules and whatnot because my long-distance boyfriend is a witness.
the issue, other than the obvious, is that i fell in love with him before he told me he was one of jehovahs witnesses.
I've made only a handful of posts to this board since joining a week or so ago so will not preface this response with background information, however relevant it is. You may click on my name to review my introductory thread if you wish. Regardless, it will take a great deal of courage for your young man to break away because in so doing he will sever what have been the only solid ties in his life. I am certain, from your candid description of your relationship, that he is already having tortured conversations with himself when he turns out the light at night. My advice, as one who has endured the WTBTS as the third person in a very long relationship with the only woman I have ever loved, is to give your young man the opportunity to choose what he wants to do, but only if you are serious about devoting your life to him. If he actually decides to take a stand and break away, you two have a fighting chance. If he is not prepared to do that for you, or if you are unsure of your commitment, do the right thing for both of you and walk away.
i've been married to the same wonderful woman for 37 years.
she's been a jehovah's witness for 33 of those years, i am not.
i studied with the wbts for a couple of years beginning late 1974 before deciding it wasn't for me.
Chris, I am very grateful for your long and thoughtful post. Thank you. You have doubtless identified the key variable. If I have but one personal deficiency to overcome (recognizing I have a multitude) it is control. I have made zero progress over more than three decades precisely because I have almost invariably lost my temper in frustration. Aesop's fable about the wind and the sun come to mind. I have always been the wind.
Bigmac, my wife's compromise is to allow her nephew's visit to our home only on the condition she not be present. Emphasis on our, our home. I perceive refusal to welcome someone you ostensibly love to be a hurtful act in which, through my own compromise, I would be made complicit. This I cannot do.