Curtains

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Posts by Curtains

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  144

  Ray Franz Was Wrong

  by Farkel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  god rest his soul.

  although i never met him personally, he and i did correspond a number of times, and i have numerous friends who have not only met him, but stayed several days with he and cynthia at their home.

  if nothing else, ray was kind, non-judging, and generous.

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  Curtains

  farkel, this may be of interest to you from an email Ray sent to brotherdan

  " I am sure you appreciate the need for patience during a time of transition. I feel that there is no experience that cannot bring some benefit, if we're willing to work to that end. Some of those experiences we characterize as negative and unpleasant can often teach more than those we view as pleasurable. At the same time that does not excuse from responsibility those who contributed to our making decisions that we would probably not have made had we not been misinformed. It was probably the rather cavalier, insensitive spirit so often manifest in Governing Body discussions that most disturbed me. "
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  13

  Ray Franz Emails: Part 3 - Final

  by brotherdan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  here is the final email i received from ray prior to his death.. [if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:worddocument> <w:view>normal</w:view> <w:zoom>0</w:zoom> <w:trackmoves /> <w:trackformatting /> <w:punctuationkerning /> <w:validateagainstschemas /> <w:saveifxmlinvalid>false</w:saveifxmlinvalid> <w:ignoremixedcontent>false</w:ignoremixedcontent> <w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext>false</w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext> <w:donotpromoteqf /> <w:lidthemeother>en-us</w:lidthemeother> <w:lidthemeasian>x-none</w:lidthemeasian> <w:lidthemecomplexscript>x-none</w:lidthemecomplexscript> <w:compatibility> <w:breakwrappedtables /> <w:snaptogridincell /> <w:wraptextwithpunct /> <w:useasianbreakrules /> <w:dontgrowautofit /> <w:splitpgbreakandparamark /> <w:dontvertaligncellwithsp /> <w:dontbreakconstrainedforcedtables /> <w:dontvertalignintxbx /> <w:word11kerningpairs /> <w:cachedcolbalance /> </w:compatibility> <w:browserlevel>microsoftinternetexplorer4</w:browserlevel> <m:mathpr> <m:mathfont m:val="cambria math" /> <m:brkbin m:val="before" /> <m:brkbinsub m:val="&#45;-" /> <m:smallfrac m:val="off" /> <m:dispdef /> <m:lmargin m:val="0" /> <m:rmargin m:val="0" /> <m:defjc m:val="centergroup" /> <m:wrapindent m:val="1440" /> <m:intlim m:val="subsup" /> <m:narylim m:val="undovr" /> </m:mathpr></w:worddocument> </xml><!

  [endif] .

  dear daniel,.

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  Curtains

  here is another email Ray sent to brotherdan. Thanks brotherdan for delving deeply into these subjects and like you I don't agree with everything Ray says but I really like this bit - so true

  "Life has its seasons and each difficult season that we weather strengthens us for the future. Life is also a journey and we cannot make progress in it if our focus is mainly on where we have been; that could lead to emotional inertia or even entropy. What is done is done. The journey inevitably contains challenge, but we can find encouragement in knowing that we are moving on, making at least some progress, and can feel confident that what is ahead can be fulfilling.
  
  Hope that things may go well for you".
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  17

  Ray Franz Emails: Part 2

  by brotherdan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  here is a second email from ray sent just a few months before he passed away:.

  dear daniel,.

  i can sympathize with you in the feeling of a measure of uncertainty that you experience.

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  Curtains

  "I don't know." - now that could be a refreshing quote for the 'Years Text'!

  clarity

  it sure would clarity ;))))
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  17

  Ray Franz Emails: Part 2

  by brotherdan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  here is a second email from ray sent just a few months before he passed away:.

  dear daniel,.

  i can sympathize with you in the feeling of a measure of uncertainty that you experience.

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  Curtains

  every time I go back over what Ray says I find something new

  "Many former Witnesses make a 180° turn in virtually all doctrinal beliefs. They have either been convinced or allowed themselves to be convinced of certain doctrines. During the many decades of my association with the Witnesses I was also convinced, sincerely so. My beliefs on many, many points has changed radically; but I have not made some type of wholesale change, simply because I have made change only where the Bible itself led me to such change. What I regrettable is the fact that, while changing radically their beliefs, many former Witnesses retain the dogmatism that so characterizes the Watch Tower organization and other religions who claim to posses "absolute truth." Some who leave become even more dogmatic as regards their new views ("new" to them, though essentially part of the creed of orthodoxy developed over the centuries). As I mentioned to one acquaintance, among some of these "ex-Witnesss" groups I feel like I am back again among Jehovah's Witnesses, with their attitude of having the Truth, the only truth (truth in this case generally being the equivalent of "orthodox" doctrine.) In place of the organization controlling their thinking and requiring subservience, dictating how they shall understand Scripture, orthodoxy now does the same."
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  17

  Ray Franz Emails: Part 2

  by brotherdan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  here is a second email from ray sent just a few months before he passed away:.

  dear daniel,.

  i can sympathize with you in the feeling of a measure of uncertainty that you experience.

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  Curtains

  bringing this back -

  ray says

  I personally find it a relief not to feel that I must have the answer for everything

  I say

  wise words
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  17

  Ray Franz Emails: Part 2

  by brotherdan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  here is a second email from ray sent just a few months before he passed away:.

  dear daniel,.

  i can sympathize with you in the feeling of a measure of uncertainty that you experience.

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  Curtains

  great discussion going on here. I like this from Ray Franz

  "Part of the problem can be in our feeling we should have absolute certainty about virtually everything stated in Scripture. But that fails to recognize the truth stated by the apostle that we on some things at least "we now see as in a mirror, dimly" and that full and complete understanding is yet ahead. *1 Corinthians 13:12) It is comforting to know that the basic message of Scripture is essentially simple, within the grasp of those who are in a sense like babes. (Matthew 11:25, 26) I personally find it a relief not to feel that I must have the answer for everything. Attempts to know the unknowable, define the undefinable, lie at the root of much of the confusion and division found today. I remember a comment by the author of the bookThe Fire that Consumes, who, on dealing with a certain text that allowed for more than one explanation, said that he thought the right position toward the text was one of "reverent agnosticism," that is, out of respect for God being willing to admit that he did not know or was unsure. I am personally drawn to persons who acknowledge that they don't have all the answers, and repelled by those who gives the appearance of feeling that they do."

  nice one Ray
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  72

  NEED HELP! WTS accusing Dirtclod.com of copyright infringement

  by Jourles in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i just got this email this evening from the cto of my hosting provider: i am writing you in regards to your site www.dirtclod.com.

  we have been forwarded a copy of a complaint that was sent to our upstream provider regarding your site and the content which is posted on your site.

  it would seem that you are posting copyrighted sections and images which are legal property of watchtower bible and tract society of new york inc. please remove these offending letters and images which are being claimed are used without permission, or provide us a statement which allows you to publish/reproduce this content on your website.

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  Curtains

  I think elsewhere makes a good point

  "Maybe they were just saber-rattling... they wanted to try to scare you into doing what they want when they really have no intention doing anything because it will draw too much attention.

  JWs like to say that XJWs are liars and alter digital images to make it look like the WTS said one thing when it really said another... if the WTS complains about the items on your web site then that means that they are accurate reproductions of WTS material."

  And I hear your shepherd. thanks for the clearheaded advice.
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  44

  If You Were a Member of an Oppressed Minority ...

  by snowbird in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  how do you think you would be getting along now?.

  why?.

  asked in all sincerity.. syl.

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  Curtains

  well I have been part of an oppressing majority and a part of an oppressed minority and somewhere in between too. This song sums up how I feel

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcrEqIpi6sg
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  21

  1st Post! and the topic of Grace

  by GOrwell in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hi folks,.

  a bit of a long-time lurker and a recently registered account, i thought i'd post my first topic.

  i'm a successful fader, and have recently begun reading the new testament, using a few different translations (nwt included, for comparisons sake).

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  Curtains

  Hi G Orwell

  this has been my bugbear too. The NT was not orginally written in English. "undeserved kindness" is an english idea incorporating Calvinistic forms of interpretation and taking those to awful limits. Grace doesn't fully in modern english resonate with what the original is trying to convey either because to me this is an older english word and also sounds quite churchy in the oldfashioned sense and may turn many modern people away.

  I think we need to employ a range of english words to bring out the full flavour of the word translated grace. Joyful spirit, generous spirit, welcoming spirit - I think all the fruits of the spirit fit with the greek.

  Undeserved kindess takes one down a blind ally and this is a case of how restricting meaning leads to hardship and misery in Jehovahs witness spiritual life becaue they have very little to work in always seeing the word undeserving, undeserved repeated. This cultivates feelings of inferiority, lack of self esteem and goes in the opposite direction to the welcoming feel of christlike things.
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  25

  My experiences that have turned me away.....

  by agent86 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  google_ad_section_start hi everyone, i am just new to this site and thanks for a very dear friend that has encouraged me to post my story and would love to hear feedback from all you out there xx.

  this is my story.

  we were introduced to the religion in 1982, not soon after we were unbaptized publishers (a bit to soon for me even at that age) i really didnt miss the celebrations as much as were werent that well off and my parents worked 6 days a week to pay the bills.

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  Curtains

  how stupid the elders are. Even if this had happened you were both children. Children explore everything. To go around accusing people of sexual activity as if it was adult on child sexual activity is very stupid.