Thanks for the warning serenitynow! I was never in. I was an "interested one" because I had a crush on a female JW and wanted to understand her religious beliefs. I realized pretty quickly that the WT material was inane, but I found myself more interested in how the people managed to believe it. The process helped me to shed some vestiges of my own nonsensical religious beliefs, and I doubt I will ever be religious again.
InterestedOne
JoinedPosts by InterestedOne
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JW's at my door today with a science presentation.
by InterestedOne ini live in a not-so-nice urban neighborhood in the us (mid-atlantic).
this is the first time english-speaking jw's have knocked when i've been home.
it was interesting to observe them now after spending last year as a study and attending a kh.
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Higher Education compared to sacrificing your child to Moloch!
by Vidqun inforthcoming attraction at the next circuit assembly.
for those that are interested in attending.
if you encourage your child to pursue higher education, you are sacrificing him or her to molech (cf.
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InterestedOne
Flat_Accent wrote:
But I don't think this is the first time they've compared Higher Education to something terrible. Wasn't there an example in a recent mag??
Here is a thread where WT includes higher education in a list of vices:
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JW's at my door today with a science presentation.
by InterestedOne ini live in a not-so-nice urban neighborhood in the us (mid-atlantic).
this is the first time english-speaking jw's have knocked when i've been home.
it was interesting to observe them now after spending last year as a study and attending a kh.
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InterestedOne
Thanks Morbidzbaby! Great idea. I'll look into it. I wonder what their reaction will be, especially if I am just as nice, gentle and innocently reading the information.
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JW's at my door today with a science presentation.
by InterestedOne ini live in a not-so-nice urban neighborhood in the us (mid-atlantic).
this is the first time english-speaking jw's have knocked when i've been home.
it was interesting to observe them now after spending last year as a study and attending a kh.
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InterestedOne
I live in a not-so-nice urban neighborhood in the US (Mid-Atlantic). This is the first time English-speaking JW's have knocked when I've been home. It was interesting to observe them now after spending last year as a study and attending a KH. They were two older African American men.
One stayed on the sidewalk, and the other was on the porch. The one on the porch had the booklet "Is There a Creator Who Cares About You?" opened to a section talking about how we only use part of our brains. Then he opened a NWT and said that reading "god's word" can make us smarter.
What I found most interesting was his smooth tone of voice and gentle demeanor. Since I had spent some time last year sitting in at the midweek Theocratic Ministry School, his style reminded me of how the TMS teaches JW's to speak. He asked if they could return next week, and I said, "yeah sure." After they left, I thought about how his smooth, gentle tone could draw in someone who doesn't know much about the JW's. Especially someone who is going through a rough time.
My schedule fluctuates, so I may not even be home when they come back, but if they catch me, I plan to just let them talk and observe them. I won't say anything unless they ask me a direct question.
Any comments?
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That's right, beeotch! Pour my coffee and go own with your cult self...
by undercover innoroomforgeorge must be drooling over this wt illustration.
the (1950s) woman of his dreams.... .
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InterestedOne
BP asked:
Are these pics in the public edition or only the private one?
Private. It's a study article about having a strained marriage. She pours the man coffee and then goes to the KH to complain about her marriage.
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That's right, beeotch! Pour my coffee and go own with your cult self...
by undercover innoroomforgeorge must be drooling over this wt illustration.
the (1950s) woman of his dreams.... .
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InterestedOne
cedars wrote:
an art genre in their own right
See the following links. I think it's humorous that the author in the second link has a collection of a genre he calls "nut art" and holds the WT in high esteem in that context:
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I'll have to think about that and get back to you
by donny inyesterday afternoon i was speaking to my jw neighbor and he managed to get on the topic of "unity" that defines true christianity.
i then said "what if you have some in a church who believes certain days are more holy than others and yet others who think all days are the same?
is that acceptable?".
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InterestedOne
If he goes to the WT CD, w10 2/1 p. 14 says:
Is it wrong, then, to set aside one day every week for rest and worship? No. God's Word leaves such a decision to each individual, saying: "One person decides that one day is holier than another. Another person decides that all days are the same. Every person must make his own decision." (Romans 14:5, God's Word) While some may choose to view one day as more holy than others, the Bible clearly indicates that God does not expect Christians to observe a weekly Sabbath.
Here, although they only mention the Sabbath, I wonder if this paragraph leaves open the possibility for other days.
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Characteristics Associated with Cultic Groups - Janja Lalich, Madeline Tobias
by flipper inthis book my wife and i are reading is entitled " take back your life - recovering from cults and abusive relationships " by janja lalich & madeleine tobias .
both were former cult members and are ph.d's teaching as associate professors of sociology at a university and the other is a clinical coordinator and psychotherapist for a medical veterans clinic.
in the appendix a section of the book on pg.
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InterestedOne
wannabefree wrote:
In a way, I think they do. How often have you known of a sister that starts return visits with an interested man, works at cultivating the interest, then eventually turns the call over to a brother.
I think that's what happened to me, although in my case it was "informal witnessing." I think my female JW acquaintance was playing me. She probably wouldn't admit it, but I think that's what was happening. It sucks to be the "interested man" in that scenario. It makes one feel like a fool. When she turned me over, I felt like such a jackass. Sitting there with this "brother" I didn't even know thinking, "wait a minute, I thought she and I were getting to know each other. Why am I sitting here with this guy?"
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Where did this "God lives in the Pleiades" notion come from?
by james_woods inthe other thread with this name in the title made me think of it again.. i know the witnesses used to say this - and for sure, there are other religions that think this as well.. the fundy-baptist preacher that my sister got to do my fathers funeral made a big deal of it during the service - (why, i cannot fathom...).. so, can some kind scholar here give us a short course in why this particular star formation is so most holy?.
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InterestedOne
Here is a little writeup I did for my JW acquaintance about it when we were still talking. I didn't list the astronomer from whom Russell got the idea, but I listed some of the more humorous quotes from later WT pubs:
Here are some WT publications discussing Jehovah dwelling in the star cluster Pleiades . They explain that although we don't know which star or planet Jehovah lives on, he might live in the Pleiades . The first attachment is from president Rutherford in the hardbound book Reconciliation of 1928 (pp. 13-15). It says:
"The enlightened student of the Word of God knows, however, that the earth holds a place of importance in God's creation far greater than that of Betelguese or any other star or planet save alone the one which is the place of the throne of the Eternal God."
He goes on to say:
"The constellation of the seven stars forming the Pleiades appears to be the crowning center around which the known systems of the planets revolve even as our sun’s planets obey the sun and travel in their respective orbits. It has been suggested, and with much weight, that one of the stars of group is the dwelling-place of Jehovah and the place of the highest heavens; that it is the place to which the inspired writer referred when he said: 'Hear thou from thy dwellingplace, even from heaven' (2 Chron. 6 : 21); and that it is the place to which Job referred when under inspiration he wrote: 'Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades , or loose the bands of Orion?'-Job 33 : 31.
The constellation of the Pleiades is a small one compared with others which scientific instruments disclose to the wondering eyes of man. But the greatness in size of other stars or planets is small when compared with the Pleiades in importance, because the Pleiades is the place of the eternal throne of God. For a like reason the various groups of stars, greater in size than the planet earth, must in the eyes of Jehovah be of far less importance than the earth because of the close relationship between the earth and the throne of Jehovah. Concerning this relationship the prophet of God wrote: 'The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool.' (Isa, 66: 1) Thus it is shown from his Word that there is a direct and intimate relationship between the throne of Jehovah and the earth."
Going back 3 years, an article was published in the Sept 10th, 1924 issue of The Golden Age (later renamed Awake!) entitled "Special Interest in the Pleiades " (pp. 793-794). The author includes pyramids in the discussion the way that C.T. Russell did in his book Thy Kingdom Come when he drew relationships between pyramid measurements and the various dates in his chronology (including 1914). Here is an excerpt:
"Then again, the position of the Pleiades at the time of the completion of the Great Pyramid of Egypt, 'God's Stone Witness,' is a very prominent feature of that building in the midst of the land of Egypt. For these and for other reasons Bible Students have good cause to believe that in the region of the Pleiades is located the throne of Jehovah God, the spiritual center of the universe; whence go forth the 'sweet influences' of the Almighty to the Earth and to all other parts of the starry universe."
Going back 1 more year, in an article in the Nov 21st, 1923 issue of the Golden Age entitled "Is North North, or What?" (pp. 107-108) the author says:
"From Job 38:31, 'Canst thou bind the sweet influences of the Pleiades ?' it has been inferred that forth from the neighborhood of the Pleiadic group there goes a sweet influence which pervades the universe. It has been assumed that this sweet influence is the holy spirit of God."
After noting the beauty of this star group and quoting astronomers indicating Pleiades could be the hub around which other stars rotate, the author quotes Bible passages about the North and goes on to sum up the theological concept as follows:
"Now as to the direction, we find that north when used in the Bible, or when omitted, has the sense of divinity associated with it. We read in Psalm 75:6,7: 'Promotion cometh neither from the east, nor from the west, nor from the south: but God [in the north] is the judge; he putteth down one, and setteth up [promoteth] another.' This use of the word north as standing for things divine runs all through the Bible. See Isaiah 14:13,14, where Satan makes his boast of his intention to be like the Most High, in the sides of the north. Thus we have a strong chain of evidence: the sweet influence, the remarkable beauty, the hub of the astral system, and the general location in the heavens at this time, all pointing to the Pleiadic group as being at or near the place where Jehovah has His throne. We think that Jehovah is a person, and that He inhabits a locality. This does not dispute His ability to extend His power infinitely in every direction."
Going back to Nov 1st,1920 in the "Letters from Afield" section of the Watch Tower magazine (p. 334), a person writing in from the field says:
"Some one asked me the other day : Suppose you should be here in 1925 what would you do? I said, I believe I will be home in the Pleiades before then; but if it is the Lord’s providence that I be here I will rejoice in the Lord and do with my might what my hands find to do in the Master’s service, not only then but throughout all eternity."
The WT discarded this teaching in 1953, but their method of doing it seems a bit misleading. They put it in the "Questions from Readers" section, and their answer makes it sound like "some" people were going around offering private interpretations of Job in relation to the star group. However, as seen above, the WT itself taught the concept including the president himself. It would be more forthright to simply say "we were wrong," but they don't. They blame "some" unnamed people.
Watchtower 1953 November 15 p.703 Questions from Readers:
"What is meant by 'binding the sweet influences of the Pleiades ' or 'loosing the bands of Orion' or 'bringing forth Mazzaroth in his seasons' or 'guiding Arcturus with his sons,' as mentioned at Job 38:31, 32? - W. S., New York."
"Some attribute striking qualities to these constellations or star groups and on the basis of such they then offer private interpretations of Job 38:31, 32 that amaze their hearers. Their views are not always sound from the standpoint of astronomy, and when viewed Scripturally they are completely without foundation. Why? Because we do not know which stars or groups of stars are being referred to in these verses. The names Pleiades , Orion and Arcturus are not the names given in the Bible. Some translations make Mazzaroth refer to the signs of the Zodiac. English translators have merely adopted these pagan names given to constellations or star groups and have inserted them in their translations in the place of the original names that appear in the Hebrew Scriptures, namely, Kimah, Kesil, Mazzaroth and 'Ayish. To just what stars or star groups these names refer we do not know today. Hence it is useless to indulge in unprofitable speculations. Incidentally, Pleiades can no longer be considered the center of the universe and it would be unwise for us to try to fix God's throne as being at a particular spot in the universe. Were we to think of the Pleiades as his throne we might improperly view with special veneration that cluster of stars.-Deut. 4:19; 2 Chron. 2:6; 6:18."
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Does WT do this on purpose or are they just out of ideas? 2012 Special Talk
by OnTheWayOut inthe 2012 special talk is "is it later than you think?".
the outline can be found at this thread: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/221623/1/anyone-have-the-outline-for-the-2012-special-talk.
at that above link, you can also see the october 8, 1968 awake cover that uses that exact same title.
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