Posts by InterestedOne

125

Stupid suggestion from Study Conductor

by roxanesophia in

hi everyone, first i just want to say if it wasn't this forum, i'd be baptized!

i haven't managed to successfully end my studies with a zealous jw.

she uses everything against me to brainwash me into believing i need the org.

InterestedOne

But most of the time when I talk to her, I feel like I'm trying to hold water in my hands. She has an answer for everything and for some reason i always come out looking & feeling like the stupid one.

I think this is due to the real-time nature of conversation and the fact that some people are better at bullying than others. I bet if you had a chance to see her remarks in writing and took the time to analyze them, you would see that they are often fallacious. Sometimes it's hard to catch this stuff in real time.

7

Weird? Sinister? Or just hi-tec?

by Chariklo in

jw
friends

it's the end of a seriously stressful day.

after going through my emails and browsing a couple of shopping sites for autumn clothes, i came here for light relief.. checked the active topics and then my own list of topics posted to in case i needed to answer anyone.

then i noticed something really weird.. google's banner ads caught my eye.

InterestedOne

. . . not just one of the online stores I'd visited but the very items I was looking at!And then I realised. In fact, I hadn't been looking at those items online, but in the snail mail catalogue that came through the door today.

My first thought is that the reason you saw the items on the banner ads is the same reason you saw them in the paper catalogue: it's what the store is currently offering. If you visited the store online, their current offerings will show up on banner ads, and you are likely to see the same items in their paper catalogue.

125

Stupid suggestion from Study Conductor

by roxanesophia in

hi everyone, first i just want to say if it wasn't this forum, i'd be baptized!

i haven't managed to successfully end my studies with a zealous jw.

she uses everything against me to brainwash me into believing i need the org.

InterestedOne

Regarding their use of the term "new light," here is an explanation:

Watch Tower publications often cite Proverbs 4:18, "The path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established" (NWT) to support their view that there would be an increase in knowledge during "the time of the end", as mentioned in Daniel 12:4. Jehovah's Witnesses state that this increase in knowledge needs adjustments. Watch Tower publications also say that unfulfilled expectations are partly due to eagerness for God's Kingdom and that they do not call their core beliefs into question. [ 16 ] [ 17 ] [ 18 ]

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eschatology_of_Jehovah%27s_Witnesses

Read the above link just to step back and see how insane this all is.

18

What to say when a jw says that all bibles are the same.

by Joey Jo-Jo in

InterestedOne

In my encounters with JW's, I've found that sometimes they say all Bibles "say basically the same thing," and other times they say the NWT is the best translation. I think what they say depends on what impression they are trying to give. For recruitment purposes, if they are trying to use the general sense of respect that many people still have for the Bible, they will try to give the impression that JW's are "just Bible students." Nevertheless, I recall reading, I think in the OD book, that JW's are taught to direct people to the NWT. Therefore, they are trying to give two impressions: 1) all Bibles say "basically" the same thing, and 2) the NWT is the best translation.

7

Back from my trip home.

by Tuber in

jw
friends

i am back from my trip home.. .

i have brought back with me three pieces of jw lit given to me by my stepmother: bible teach, was life created & the origin of life.. .

i didn't get much time to discuss religion with my stepmother, as i was pretty busy running around catching up with people.. .

InterestedOne

Tuber wrote:

she mentioned that atheists "take to the message" a lot more readily than people who already have a faith

My JW friend says the same thing! I wonder if this is coincidence or another example of the way JW's talk the same.

I think going through TOL or WLC with her and pointing out all the bad science in them, and the misquotes, might be a decent strategy.
I could use this to lead into the question, how can an organisation that tells barefaced lies be god's organisation?
I like this approach as the pamphlets themselves invite research (knowing a JW would consider just reading the pamphlet itself as "research"). This will allow me to defend my motives for researching quotes and science etc, rather than just coming across as a "faultfinder".

You are wise to be careful about her writing you off as a "faultfinder." They are quick to do this. Be careful how you "point out" things to her. This is where Black Sheep's advice is relevant. He often says "don't tell them anything." They are programmed to not respond well to you telling them anything. Still, I agree with your reasoning that the nature of those pamphlets invites research. If you are going to "point out" things to her, try to figure out a way to do it where she discovers the truth for herself. As an example, I found a sentence in one of their books that I'm pretty sure is false. I am going to address it with an elder in my JW friend's congregation - btw she won't really talk to me anymore and says I should direct my questions to the elders. When I raise it with the elder, I am not going to "tell" him the sentence is false. Instead, I am going to say that the sentence didn't match what I had always heard throughout my life, and could he please tell me if the sentence is true or false. I'm hoping he will look into it and be obligated to either admit that it is false or have to make up some explanation that he will know deep down is just reaching.

98

New here

by Tuber in

jw
friends

hey all.. .

thought i'd introduce myself.. .

first, a disclaimer: i'm an athiest.. .

InterestedOne

If you are up to it, I would be interested in hearing the main points you took away from your visit with your stepmom. I can understand the feelings of discouragement. The phenomenon of JW indoctrination is pretty amazing. I didn't give my recommendation on which books should take priority on your reading list, but I must say now that Steven Hassan's Combatting Cult Mind Control is at the top in my opinion. I think you should order it. It's a pretty quick read and articulates some key insights for people in this situation.

38

Double Lives of JW Youth

by camicia in

i posted a lengthy concern a while back about my 23 year old daughter on the verge of baptism.

the good news is she still hasn't progressed past studying - no door knocking thank god.

the bad news is she's still studying, attending meetings, etc and i am still very much a "satanic influence.

InterestedOne

Black Sheep wrote:

The WT has set a trap for her.
They have warned her that she will get opposition from family.
If you oppose her, you fulfill that prediction.

Yes, camicia, notice how they have prepped her in the beginning of the "Bible Teach" book with the following sentences:

As you learn more from the Bible, you may find that some well-meaning people will urge you to stop such studies. They may worry that you will change your beliefs. But do not let anyone stop you from forming the best friendship you can ever have. - What Does The Bible Really Teach, chapter 1, paragraph 22.

38

Double Lives of JW Youth

by camicia in

i posted a lengthy concern a while back about my 23 year old daughter on the verge of baptism.

the good news is she still hasn't progressed past studying - no door knocking thank god.

the bad news is she's still studying, attending meetings, etc and i am still very much a "satanic influence.

InterestedOne

she says she does want out but feels guilty that she wasted the girls time.

If the girl conducting her study does anything, even subtly, to imply your daughter should feel guilty for wasting the conductor's time, I would try to explain to your daughter that the suggestion is manipulative and unacceptable behavior. Your daughter should not feel that she owes the study conductor anything. The bible study is presented as free. That means no strings attached. If the study conductor is attaching any strings, she is violating the terms of the bible study. Your daughter should feel free to stop at any time without anyone suggesting she wasted their time. Car salesmen use this tactic on potential buyers. They subtly suggest that the potential buyer should feel guilty for wasting the salesman's time if they don't buy. Teach her to not let people do that to her.

96

The New World Translation Quote from an Elder

by howdidtihappen in

you've probably heard this before, but at a meeting last night the elder called the nwt the "rolls royce" of bibles.

i'm new to the jw bs (and as soon as i can break away, will do so.

) but do they also believe they have a superior bible to anyone elses outside the religion?

InterestedOne

When I read other translations, I get the sense that the translators are trying to bring out what the unique authors of the various books were saying. With the NWT, it feels like no matter which part of the Bible I turn to, I'm getting the same Watchtower doctrine read to me. It's a weird feeling and always seems fishy. The elder referring to it as a Rolls Royce reminds me of the time I sat in a KH and the elder called the WT's blood policy the "gold standard" in healthcare. I believe these kinds of comments contribute to a tone of elitism among the JW's I have been around.

FWIW, here's something that just popped in my mind about the NWT use of language: one of the traits of cults is that they limit the set of words and phrases in their lexicon, which in turn limits the range of expression among members. The NWT claims it's uniformity of language is a good thing because it supposedly helps the reader to know what the underlying Greek/Hebrew words are. However, I think it is also thought-limiting.

23

WT says oldest portion of Bible predates all other religious writings.

by InterestedOne in

in the book mankind's search for god, the wt says the following:.

the oldest portion of the bible predates all of the world's other religious writings.

- chapter 1, paragraph 27.. .

InterestedOne

clearpoison - If this is how a JW would defend the statement, I immediately ask: Assuming a set of texts were written prior to anything we have available, and assuming other ancient religions as well as Moses used the earlier texts as source material, how do we know who relayed the earlier texts more accurately - the other religions or Moses? We don't have the earlier texts for comparison, so how can we possibly know who was correct?