Posts by kenpodragon

26

Is Disagreement REALLY Fanning A Flame?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i won't specify a particular subject, but it seems that when someone throws mud at another, there are 2 options.

either accept it or reject it.

if you or others defend a position, especially after an attack, that's "fanning the flames".

kenpodragon

I like to see all threads on subjects a mini-debates at times. I try to put some thought into my response, with thoughts that express my views in a concise manner. What I notice though is that some people avoid my thoughts and just argue about nothing with large BOLD words of "how dare you?" and "how could you?" all of which shows one side is debating and one side is arguing. I learn from debates more then I learn from arguments. As debates, when done right, can give a lot of incite to life.

My thought

Dragon

44

Can we still be friends, if I disagree with you?

by Mulan in

jw
friends

.

let's talk about this.. i have lots of friends on this board.

so..........can we still be friends, if i disagree with you?

kenpodragon

Personally I do not like to surround myself with "yes men" ... so most of my close friends disagree with me all the time.

My thought

Dragon

36

Are you in the mood....?

by Beck_Melbourne in

jw
friends

....for pics??.

i just felt like a change of scenery...and so i thought i'd share some of my scenery with you in the hopes that you would share some of your scenery with me .

a couple of weekends ago andy and i took a drive down great ocean rd - we never quite made to see the 12 apostles (lilacs - we're waiting for you babe lol)...but along the way we stopped and took a few photos.

kenpodragon

I didn't know Oregon had any dunes

Oregon Dunes are world famous. They are about 7 miles wide, and around 50-70 miles long and run all along the Oregon Coast from Coos Bay to somewhere north of Florence. There are small lakes inside them, and tons of wild life. We take the quads over there and ride all the time. Not so much this year, with the pregnant wife, but we have done it a ton in life.

Take Care

Dragon

5

Voices in the head that said "NO!"

by kenpodragon in

jw
friends

your a teenage boy again, and you have just snuck out of your parents home at midnight.

you sneak through the bushes, getting a couple of scratches and head to the rendezvous location that your friends arranged earlier.

you climb into the car to a bunch of cheers, and head off to the location you had been looking forward to all night long while you waited for your parents to go to bed.

kenpodragon

Your a teenage boy again, and you have just snuck out of your parents home at midnight. You sneak through the bushes, getting a couple of scratches and head to the rendezvous location that your friends arranged earlier. You climb into the car to a bunch of cheers, and head off to the location you had been looking forward to all night long while you waited for your parents to go to bed. You get to the party, and beer is being drank every where and you can wait to catch up. On the couch is the girl who talked you into doing this in the first place, and you gladly go sit next to her and share some words. Soon you are kissing, and you head to the empty bedroom and next thing you know she has her shirt off and wanting to have sex. Then like some recorder in your mind, you hear "Jehovah would not approve, What would the elders say, If you get caught you are going to be disfellowshipped, What would you mom say, etc." Do you know what I mean? In my life I can honestly say that there have been times where I swear I could hear all those thoughts resonating through my mind. It might have been something in a Watchtower that I read, or something someone said. The thing is, guilt in those situations kind of always seemed to get in the way. Whereas other worldly kids would have just grabbed the nearest condom and gone to town, I was over there worrying about the fact that I would have to explain this to the elders and get thrown out of the house. I can honestly say in situations like that, I wanted so many times to tell my mind, "to shut the hell up!" Yet did it? No, and many of us remember this little comment made a lot from the stage about the "Christian trained conscience" and despite all that I disliked from my youth. I have to admit that this thing actually brought me some benefit. Some might say that you should have done more, and been with more girls. Yet in all honestly, as I get older and really think about my actions. Those regrets get really small, and I see the wisdom in all that stopped me. I did not exactly live the perfect teenage image, but at the same time I was not out being all wild either. It was not that I could not jump out the window when I wanted too, but it was that some where inside of my mind I had grown a measure of self-respect. So as I set there that evening with this woman breast out and thinking, "awesome!" I also had to contend with the other voice that said, "You shouldn't" and thus I didn't. Trust me, I was kicking myself for not doing that for many months. Then my friend got his girlfriend pregnant and she handled it with a abortion, and I remember thinking that doing what seemed right in my mind helped me to avoid some really rough times. Not that I would say the Witnesses were the ones to thank for such smart decisions in life, but I have to admit in this current life, that the Witness restrictions in my youth did help me to avoid some serious problems that my friends went through. I was no angel though, and I did drink at times. One lesson I learned on my own though, that was never taught in the Kingdom Hall, and I learned it that night I snuck out. When you jump out of your window to go meet your friends, make sure you turn off the light in your bedroom. Because mothers have this habit of seeing it on and checking on you, and then seeing you are gone. Well let's just say, after the talk I got the next day. I was seriously thinking, I should have had sex and dealt with the elders. I think their punishment would have been easier. We live and we learn, and sometimes we are thankful for not doing the things we regretted passing on. My thought Dragon

Edited by - kenpodragon on 29 October 2002 0:15:25

36

Are you in the mood....?

by Beck_Melbourne in

jw
friends

....for pics??.

i just felt like a change of scenery...and so i thought i'd share some of my scenery with you in the hopes that you would share some of your scenery with me .

a couple of weekends ago andy and i took a drive down great ocean rd - we never quite made to see the 12 apostles (lilacs - we're waiting for you babe lol)...but along the way we stopped and took a few photos.

kenpodragon

A local water fall

Oregon Dunes

My pictures

Dragon

37

The Secret Way Elders Are Actually Appointed

by minimus in

jw
friends

does anyone have a clue as to how elders actually get appointed?

kenpodragon

Often it comes down to who you kissed up too, or who knows about what you are doing. Meaning, you could be the most righteous man in the congregation, but if the right people do not see. You will not move up! Second, you need to ask for things to do and then the elder body will take a closer look at you and decide if they want to give you responsibilities. If they do, they will watch to see how you handle them and whether or not you are wanting more, or complaining. Next they will take a close look at your field service time, as that is where the leadership needs to start in the societies opinion. If those hours are good, your are reaching out, then they make you a Ministerial Servant through a recommendation to the GB during the CO's visit. Supposedly these names are prayed over, and then appointed. It's urban legend that anyone gets turned down, although someone always says they "heard of one time!" Next when it is mailed back with the approval they pull you aside and ask if their is any reason why you should not be a MS. If you say no, they announce your appointment in "local announcements" and your now a servant. Next they will assign you duties as a servant, to which they watch you again. You will accompany elders on sheparding calls, you will be asked to organize a few things, and basically do the same as the elders. Except no main meetings, or decisions. When you are ready, or the elder body thinks you are ready they will give you a public talk outline. You will often give a few of these before appointment to elder. Again, hours in service mean the most. They will then appoint you the same way as the MS, and announce you as a elder if you say yes. From their you can then be assigned headship of certain departments. I have seen congregations with so many elders, they actually had men assigned to keeping the bathrooms in check. At the same time, I have seen some with so few. The elders did a little bit of everything.

Hope that answered your question.

Dragon

37

I am tired of all this ray v.s bill why can't we..

by Jesika in

jw
friends

why can't we all just drop it.

talking this to death won't change anything!!!!!!!!!

i don't understand the reason or need to "take sides".

kenpodragon

I am beginning to think this who war of the Bowen vs. Franz is the Jehovah the Witnesses always talked about ...

After all it seems to have no beginning anyone can agree on and no end.

My thought

Dragon

PS : I am walking away from this one too

59

Bill Bowen: a 'burial' ONLY for those who can read

by Focus in

jw
friends

the fleabites received for my speaking the absolute truth, almost entirely free from speculation, in:.

the thread found by clicking here would be hilarious if the matter at hand was not so serious.

i guess the biters generally display the poor reading and reasoning powers, and the huge desire to hero-worship ("my jehovah can beat up your jesus") that got so many embroiled in the cult of lies in the first place.... .

kenpodragon

Sides? Are we in a Kingdom Hall still. Just because people question these men, does not mean they are on sides. When someone says, "which side are you on?" I feel like I am on a elementary playground breaking up into teams. I would venture to say that most people on here that do not care for Bill, are in no way saying they follow Franz. What I have seen is people saying, "keep Franz out of this." By the way, I think this whole debate has been a learning lesson to people. Many lessons have been taught.

1. Question people constantly and do not think that just because people disagree, that you are wrong.

2. Some people want a leader.

3. Some people want to argue things out, even when they see the other side will never change.

4. We are all expressing our own views, and many times those views are saying "please stop expressing yours, and start agreeing with mine." Old habits die hard.

5. No one is perfect.

I would like to make one comment though on abuse support. I do not agree with Bill and his movement, nor do I offer him support personally. At the same time, I continually wonder why people then say, "then you do not support abuse victims." To which I say, "I support all abuse survivors, without division of race, religion, sex, or their stand in life." Support never wears blinders to only a select few victims. I have done many things to support all abuse survivors.

I would just feel a little more at ease with my fellow Ex-Jw's if I did not see so many people saying "Praise Brother Bill" when they shouldn't even see it that way anymore. We are no longer in the religion, their is no division, love and support should know no bounderies. People need to accept, many people do not know or care for Bill's actions. Just like politics, support who you want and do not have a fit when others disagree. Freedom is a two edge sword.

My thought

Dragon

181

Bill Bowen's Comments on Ray Franz

by silentlambs in

jw
friends

i wish them peace.

at the end of the conversation i did not feel we were in agreement.

for similar reasons i believe ray has not supported the issue of child abuse being a problem in the organization to media and by personal comments to persons who ask him privately about this.

kenpodragon

Undisfellowshiped

Wow, talk about coming from out in left field with something off topic. Did you know I am Pagan, Shaman to be exact and do not see the Bible as an authority? (Sorry if that offends Christians) Just something for future reference. I do not even read comments that quote scripture, as I have read the Bible enough to know what it says without reminders. Sorry about that.

Read ALL of my comments. They are very thought out and posses "my words" and not the Bibles. I know people often pull my thoughts first, and I do not know why. Perhaps I just have the ability to piss people off. Who knows.

Getting late here .... bedtime. (Enjoy the debate ... it is a freedom I cherish!!!!!)

My thought

Dragon

PS : He still choose the title!!!!! Unless we are saying God inspired him to write it. LOL In that case, I really do have a problem.

PSS : I did not find your post upsetting. "It's all good!!!!!!!!!!! "

Edited by - kenpodragon on 28 October 2002 2:30:5

181

Bill Bowen's Comments on Ray Franz

by silentlambs in

jw
friends

i wish them peace.

at the end of the conversation i did not feel we were in agreement.

for similar reasons i believe ray has not supported the issue of child abuse being a problem in the organization to media and by personal comments to persons who ask him privately about this.

kenpodragon

Simon

"With many advisors, often comes many mistakes"

Thus the need to keep things pure in heart, and stay to what we know is right inside. I honestly think Bill is making a huge mistake in not continuing to share his thoughts on boards like this. Could you imagine what would have happened, had he made that Franz comment on Dateline NBC. I shutter to think what damage that would have done, and how much that would have made the Society cheer. Thinking they killed two birds with one stone.

A knife does not sharpen itself!

My thought

Dragon