Posts by shepherd

19

Most JWs Lack Bible Knowledge - How Can They Teach What they know not

by Band on the Run in

jw
friends

being a jw exposed me to many bible stories.

when i am with any group of people today, except seminary students, i know far more stories and obscure ones, too.

after i left, i went on a tour of the cathedral in ny.

shepherd

Wikipedia says: Since Classical times, Nimrod has traditionally been considered the leader of those who built the Tower of Babel in the land of Shinar, though the Bible never actually states this.

Judaic interpreters as early as Philo and Yochanan ben Zakai (1st century AD) interpreted "a mighty hunter before the Lord" (lit. "in the face of the Lord") as signifying "in opposition to the Lord"; a similar interpretation is found in Pseudo-Philo, as well as later in Symmachus.

This is how the JW's translate that scripture too, but, BOTR you are right, the Bible itself does not actually say it, it is derived from extra-biblical tradition, and "in opposition to the Lord" is not a literal translation of the text at all. It is interesting how they accept certain non-biblical traditions at the same time as rejecting anything that does not agree with their narrow point of view.

I remember that they also changed the translation to show that Noah preached about the end but the people 'took no note' when in fact the original manuscripts say no such thing.

Matthew 24:38 For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; 39 and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be. - NWT

----All other Bibles say, in one way or another say:

Matt 24:38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away.

For more proof the NWT changed the scripture to suggest there was a modern parallel with their own preaching activity:

24:39 κα? "and" ο?κ "not" ?γνωσαν "they-had-acquainted" ?ως "unto-if-which" ?λθεν "it-had-came," ? "the-one" κατακλυσμ?ς "a-dashing-down-of," κα? "and" ?ρεν "it-lifted" ?παντας, "to-along-all," ο?τως "unto-the-one-this" ?σται "it-shall-be" ? "the-one" παρουσ?α "a-being-beside-unto" το? "of-the-one" υ?ο? "of-a-Son" το? "of-the-one" ?νθρ?που. "of-a-mankind." - Westcott & Hort GNT - Literal Translation

So I agree, BOTR, not only do JW's often not have a clue what the Bible actually says but what they think they know is often based on corrupt mistranslation.

19

Most JWs Lack Bible Knowledge - How Can They Teach What they know not

by Band on the Run in

jw
friends

being a jw exposed me to many bible stories.

when i am with any group of people today, except seminary students, i know far more stories and obscure ones, too.

after i left, i went on a tour of the cathedral in ny.

shepherd

"Mountains used to be made of Ice-Cream"

Yeah, and maybe the scripture actually said "1. Mountains used to be made of Ice-Cream 2. colored rocks and dark brown colored rocks." But they will only read verse 1...:)

36

Help: Been Disfellowshipped for 6 Days

by weskerbouts in

six days ago, on the 24th, the announcement was made.

the prior 3 weeks were an 'interesting' time after having come forward about my sin (problem).

(i have an addiction to pornography.

shepherd

This is how i see it: You confessed because it was bothering you. You have an 'addiction' so of course you can't just stop doing it and of course you were hoping for help. Instead they disfellowshipped you.

John 13:35

" This is how everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another."

They will say disfellowshipping was an act of love. It was not. You were not caught, you confessed and sought help, and they 'killed' you spiritually (in the JW opinion) for it instead.

I would say one thing, if you think of porn as normal your addiction will probably weaken. One reason you are 'hooked' is probably because you think it is wrong, so wrong the more you try not to think about it, the more you are actually focussing your mind towards it. Once you rebalance your views you will crave it less.

And whatever elder was the most aggressive at your JC, is most probably fighting the same urges in secret :)

48

Jesus Was but not IS Michael!

by free thought in

jw
friends

to honor the son is to honor the father.. i am a practicing jw who i believe is of the heavenly calling.

this post is not to criticize wts but to open honest discussion among mature followers of christ.. there has been much controversy around the wts doctrine regarding the arch angel michael.

as many are aware, wts believe that jesus in his pre-human existence was michael , gods first born.

shepherd

"I am a practicing JW who I believe is of the heavenly calling."

You lost my attention at that point....

206

i am a regular pioneer in my cong reading crisis of conscience.here goes...

by MsGrowingGirl20 in

jw
friends

i'm on page 90 right now...the info is definitely new and gives me a totally diff view as to how i used to think of faithful and discreet slave.

i was thoroughly disgusted with the way the brothers handled the oral sex and leadership problem and the insight on the scriptures book...... still have alot of questions though.

shepherd

That book was the turning point for me. I was already thinking all these same thoughts and there it was in print. If all JW's read this book, I think hundreds of thousands more would leave - exactly why it scares the Org so much if people read anything they did not write, yet they expect non witnesses to read their crap.

39

CRISIS OF CONSCIENCE

by jojojunfan in

jw
friends

i need to speak to anyone who is a mature christian.

someone who has maintained their faith in jehovah and in christ jesus.

i have felt that many things i have been taught are inconsistent for some time.

shepherd

"In the Organization you will never really feel good about yourself. If you become a ministerial servant you will be made to feel guilty because you aren't doing enough, because you aren't an elder, because you aren't spending enough time with your family, because you aren't going in feild service enough, etc."

So true. Do not think that if you were ever accepted as an MS the pressure would ease off. Sisters feel the same pressure too for different reasons such as their hours, how they look, the 'rank' their husband holds etc.

The truth is Jesus said his load was light, and the Org. load is about as heavy as it gets - and that should tell you something.

32

Is U.S. last world power?

by 2tone in

jw
friends

unfortunately i was out in service the other day.

just to get my 2-3 hours in for the month.

this lady who has invested over 60 years of all her life into the org made a comment.

shepherd

The Org manipulates what constitutes a world power. Most of the powers they list were never 'world powers' and they conveniently ignore larger ones like the Chinese Empire which used to wield considerable influence. They do this by saying the only powers that matter are the ones that directly affect 'god's people'. So, even if modern China continues to rise and eventually even overtake the USA as a world power they will ignore it because there are few Witlesses there.

48

i spoke with an elder about university

by MsGrowingGirl20 in

jw
friends

he always tells me that i've adopted him as a father...we're pretty close.

i spoke with him asking for some advice about whether or not to pursue my degree.he, to my surprise, couldn't give me his opinion.he told me that if he tells me how he really feels (he says he has some strong views on the matter) he may be disciplined for 'promoting higher education'....in effect he was telling me to go ahead and pursue my degree but not really saying it.

he asked me to promise him that i'll speak to the presiding overseer and the circuit overseer....i haven't as yet.

shepherd

"By academic standards, the Watchtower and Awake! are colossal failures."

Absolutely!

One thing to say to any elder who sticks his nose in is you intend to use your college education so you can work part time and pioneer later, or use your skills at Bethel. Of course it's BS but it will be harder for them to say you are wrong.

24

Memorial 2012 Date

by Quendi in

not that i have any intention of attending, but would somebody be so good as to post the date for the memorial "celebration" this year?

.

quendi.

shepherd

Quendi you are right, certain writers in the Bible specifically say unleavened bread was used, but they also place the events during Nisan 15. The arguments over whether it was Nisan 14 or 15 when Jesus had the meal of his new covenant are complex. Nisan 14 was the day of preparation and the unleavened bread was baked during that day and in the afternoon about 4 hours before the beginning of Nisan 15 the lambs were slaughtered, yet John indicates this is the same time Jesus died, which would mean if the meal was at the beginning of Nisan 14 leavened bread was used. However, Matthew, Mark and Luke agree (since they share a common origin) that the Last Supper was held only after the Jewish holiday had begun, which would be the evening of the 15th Nisan, complete with unleavened bread.

I am not sure why even something so simple as a date can end up a muddle in the Bible, but, true to form, it does. Sulla is right, John and the synoptics plainly disagree over the date. It's one reason for not thinking the Bible is inspired of God, it can be so contradictory over the simplest of things. One possible reason is the writers who documented events that supposedly happened almost a lifetime before - none of the 'gospels' were written close to the events they described - simply got confused. Or, for John, it just better suited this writer's deeper explanation of prophetic fullfillment and archetyping of sacrifice if he moved the events back a day.

The JW way of course is to combine both accounts and somehow conclude they are both correct, if you jumble up the accounts in just the right way. According to them Jesus managed to eat the passover lamb on Nisan 14, right at the beginning of the day of Preparation, and therefore before the lambs had even been sacrificed in the late afternoon of what for modern man is now the next day.

Interestingly, whether you follow Matthew Mark and Luke, or John's account does affect whether leavened bread or unleavened is used. Contrary to popular belief that it has always been that way, the Catholic custom of using unleavened wafers in the Mass is only medieval in origin. The Orthodox churches preserve the earlier custom of using leavened bread.

36

Shy JW at the door ... the pain of it

by MrMonroe in

someone tweeted today: "a jehovah's witness who is shy to people at the door.

those few words paint such a sad picture.

how many jws with little self-esteem and self-confidence, particularly born-ins who have never known anything different, are sent out into neighbourhoods to knock on the doors of strangers and speak to them, knowing the householder resents them being there?

shepherd

I base my comments on what you have said here. In my view, even your choice of a large bold font is a reflection of an inflated ego.

We are all different, and you enjoyed it. That's fine. However it does not necessarily mean those who hated it had less talent than you. Just less self-confidence. That was my point, and I stand by it.