Posts by GOrwell

457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

GOrwell

OK, I've faithfully read through all 21 pages of this tumultous thread, and I don't see the below subject touched. I do apologize for digging up a slightly older thread, but the below is one of the clinchers for me, and this is the most recent Trinity thread. I can see there are lots of *hints* of the Trinity doctrine in the scriptures, but nothing absolutely explicit.

Question : How do Trinitarians reconcile the idea of Jesus being appointed a mediator (1 Tim 2:5), when by definition, a mediator has to be a separate party/entity/being to make a covenant legal and ensure both sides are treated "fairly" according to the terms of the covenant?

4

Zechariah 8:11,12 - Jehovah announces the 70-years ended?

by GOrwell in

hi folks,.

i've been reading into the zechariah scriptures (zech 1:7, zech 1:12, 7:1-5 etc) about when the 70-year desolation period ended, but i couldn't seem to find much about zechariah 8:11, 12. chapter 8 continues where chapter 7 left off (chapter 8 mentions that jehovah "continued" to speak), so the time frame is the same as in the beginning of chapter 7 (4th year of darius, around november 518).

for some reason, this scripture clicked :.

GOrwell

Hi Folks,

I've been reading into the Zechariah scriptures (Zech 1:7, Zech 1:12, 7:1-5 etc) about when the 70-year desolation period ended, but I couldn't seem to find much about Zechariah 8:11, 12. Chapter 8 continues where Chapter 7 left off (Chapter 8 mentions that Jehovah "continued" to speak), so the time frame is the same as in the beginning of Chapter 7 (4th Year of Darius, around November 518). For some reason, this scripture clicked :

Zech 8:11,12 reads (NWT):

“‘And now I shall not be as in the former days to the remaining ones of this people,’ is the utterance of Jehovah of armies. 12 ‘For there will be the seed of peace; the vine itself will give its fruitage, and the earth itself will give its yield, and the heavens themselves will give their dew; and I shall certainly cause the remaining ones of this people to inherit all these [things]."

Wouldn't this explicitly indicate that Jehovah himself announced the end of the 70 year desolation? The wording used by God seems the exact opposite of "desolation," and is quite beautiful.

Per usual, there's zilch about this set of Scriptures on the CD-ROM or even on this site, via search.

What do you folks think about this set of scriptures?

21

Scriptures out of context

by Lady Lee in

i'm working on my column nad came across this thought by ray franz regarding how often the wts takes things out of context.

they take a scripture from one places in the bbiel and match it up with a couple of other scriptures from 2 or more other places and piece them together liek one huge jigsaw puzzle.

and then present some kind of doctrinal picture based on their out-of-context jigsaw pieces.. that is like taking 3 sentences from various books on history and putting them together to create a new theory.

GOrwell

Unforunately for the WTS, Paul was inspired to pull those quotes and apply them as such; the WTS is not inspired.

24

Brotherdan's New Blog

by brotherdan in

jw
friends

although i know it is not the place to advertise, i just wanted to inform you guys that i am starting a new blog.

i will be updating it at least weekly.

it will be an analysis of older wt publications.. as you'll see in my first post, my intention isn't to "bash" the watchtower, but only to give a critical eye to what was said (good and bad) and how it contributed to the jw culture that we see today.. if anyone is interested, check it out.

GOrwell

Perhaps I'll follow along in the scanned copies, and I can't wait for it to start!

24

Bible written for the anointed....

by Momma-Tossed-Me in

jw
friends

i have heard this jw argument before which explains away some of the scriptures alluding to everyone going to heaven but i was on jwfacts, 144,000 section and saw that belief no where in there.

.

has anyone done any research to debunk that theory?.

GOrwell

Caliber : Again with the picking and choosing. By rights, Isaiah 43:10 ("you are my witnesses") applied only to Israel and the new Spiritual Israel, and thus ONLY the 144,000, but no, let's apply it everyone, just this time, and maybe a few others?

24

Bible written for the anointed....

by Momma-Tossed-Me in

jw
friends

i have heard this jw argument before which explains away some of the scriptures alluding to everyone going to heaven but i was on jwfacts, 144,000 section and saw that belief no where in there.

.

has anyone done any research to debunk that theory?.

GOrwell

I hear this argument a lot. JW's claim that Christendom "pick's and chooses" what scriptures they want to follow, but with this practice, they do exactly the same thing. It's a genius way to having a scripture apply to any situation/class they want. I haven't done much research, but my general retort is that we should have two bible versions then, one for the anointed and one for the "other sheep," just so we're clear on what passages we really have to follow. Most of the NT wouldn't apply then.

At least the Mormon's got it right in this regard in that they came out up front with their own "inspired" revelation and other "inspired" writings, have their own modern-day prophets and stick by it, no matter the consequences.

15

What is the shelf life of the WT & Awake rags?

by serenitynow! in

at what point do they stop being spiritual food dispensed at the proper time, and start being "apostate .

GOrwell

I have yet to be able to nail down my relatives on exactly when the magazines/books become old light and you can no longer reference anything in them. 50 years? 30 years? At least set a maximum, and we'll go from there!

21

1st Post! and the topic of Grace

by GOrwell in

hi folks,.

a bit of a long-time lurker and a recently registered account, i thought i'd post my first topic.

i'm a successful fader, and have recently begun reading the new testament, using a few different translations (nwt included, for comparisons sake).

GOrwell

thanks all for your comments. 1984 is indeed my favourite book - I think I've read it at least 4-5 times, and the correlations to the WT or any authoritarian organization are spot on. Truly, when you control the language and its' meaning, you control people.

Snowbird, thanks for the discussion link. I couldn't seem to find much via the search function.

See you all around. I might make a proper intro post, but it might take awhile. Some family is still inside, so we'll see.

thanks again!

21

1st Post! and the topic of Grace

by GOrwell in

hi folks,.

a bit of a long-time lurker and a recently registered account, i thought i'd post my first topic.

i'm a successful fader, and have recently begun reading the new testament, using a few different translations (nwt included, for comparisons sake).

GOrwell

Thank you two for the warm welcome. It is pretty astounding to read through Romans for the first time and see how strongly Paul wrote about that all you need is faith and grace to be saved, and its definitely not of our own merit that we receive life. Of course, you'd actually have to read Romans with another translation, as the NWT is simply brutal (along with Hebrews) for understanding the text.

I'll have to do some further research on grace, but it shouldn't be too hard, as the topic has probably been done to death.

21

1st Post! and the topic of Grace

by GOrwell in

hi folks,.

a bit of a long-time lurker and a recently registered account, i thought i'd post my first topic.

i'm a successful fader, and have recently begun reading the new testament, using a few different translations (nwt included, for comparisons sake).

GOrwell

Hi Folks,

A bit of a long-time lurker and a recently registered account, I thought I'd post my first topic. I'm a successful fader, and have recently begun reading the New Testament, using a few different translations (NWT included, for comparisons sake). Previously, I genuinely had zero interest or desire in reading the actual Bible. I never knew why, but really, what is the point of reading the Bible (outside of the proof texts), when all the answers are decided for you?

Anyways, in reading the NT, the NWT translations seemed terrified of including the word or concept of grace, which is nearly without fail translated as "undeserved kindess." Does the word have too many connotations of Christendom for it to be included? The word itself has many different meanings/shades of meanings, and the insight on the scriptures book lists over 14 different possible meanings. Of course, instead of translating according to context or having the word stand on it's own merit, every instance of grace has been replaced with one narrow phrase of "undeserved kindess."

Other translations for the most part have 'grace,' with the occasional change for a meaning that fits the context better.

I really am puzzled why the translators would be scared of this word to not even have it even occur once in the New Testament. It's along the same lines of "Exercise faith," instead of just "believe."

Thoughts?