Posts by kes152

8

The moral of the story of adam and eve and witness kids

by Sirius Dogma in

we all know the story of adam and eve - god forbids fruit, man and women eat fruit.. what is the real moral of this story?

tradition teaches that man is sinful by nature and must be punished.. i was thinking the moral could also be this "that which is forbidden, is made desirable.".

i don't know if that is sin, when you tell someone they can't have something, it almost naturally makes us at least curious as to why that is.

kes152

To sirius

you said: "What is the real moral of this story? Tradition teaches that man is sinful by nature and must be punished."

Tradition does teach that, however, that is not the truth. The 'truth' is, God created man in his own image and according to his likeness. He gave them of every tree to eat from, including the tree of life. They were not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, because that tree would KILL them. He was protecting them from all the dangers that was in their domain, and there was only one. The tree was put there for a purpose, to bring death to those who did not wish to live forever. He did not want Adam and Eve to eat from that tree because eating from that tree would bring them death. He knew they did not want death, so he told them NOT to eat from that tree so that they would not die. They understood this.

10

Taking responsibility for your actions

by dustyb in

jw
friends

something i realized this weekend at the circuit assembly...there are too many people that blame jehover (tm) for how they grew up, or blame satan for all the problems of the world.

why can't everyone just grow some balls and take responsibilities for their own actions?

something that i always read on this forums is frankiespeakin's threads on how jehover (tm) is a false god or doesn't exist, or solely created people to piss on.

kes152

To dusty,

Man does not take the blame for their own actions because they are doing the works of their forefather, Adam, who ALSO did not take the blame for his own errors. Instead, just as he blamed Eve, the Devil, and even the Father himself for his own errors, so also man does today.

It says in James, "When under trial, let no one say "I am being tried by God" (blaming God for the trial). For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone. But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by HIS OWN DESIRE. Then, when the desire becomes fertile, it gives birth to sin; sin, in turn, when it has been done, brings forth death." (James 1:13-15)

We bring out our OWN destruction. We are the ones with the 'bad' desire. When we are drawn out and enticed (baited on), it is our decision if we want to fertilize that desire into sin. If we decide to 'dwell on that desire' and let it become fertile, it gives birth to sin. Then, we have this 'sin' in us just waiting for an oppotunity to be done. When it is done.. the repercutions of that sin bring forth death. The death is NOT from God, but from "the one who having the means to cause death, that is.. the Devil" (Hebrews 2:14).

Peace,

Aaron

21

Beware the voice of strangers...

by flower in

jw
friends

i havent really been keeping up with the latest garbage being spewed forth from the wts to its members, but stumbled on this little gem from

http://quotes.watchtower.ca/bewarethevoiceofstrangers.htm

i'm sure this has been mentioned before and i missed it but i enjoyed this talk.

kes152

>>He said: "Most truly I say to you, he that does not enter the sheep through the door but climbs up some other place, that one is a thief and a plunderer. But he that enters through the door is shepherd of the sheep.<<

Jesus said, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; NO ONE can come to the Father except through me." (John 14:6). This means anyone who does not go to him, but climbs up some other place (going to the organization, another church, the 'faithful and discreet slave,' or Jehovah himself) is a THIEF and a plunderer. He that goes through the door, or through the Christ is 'shepherd of the sheep.' He continues:

>>The doorkeeper opens to this one, and the sheep listens to his voice, and he calls his own sheep BY NAME and leads them out. When he has got all his own out, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, because they know his voice. A stranger they will by no means follow but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers." (John 10:1-5)<<

No one has gone through the Door except the door himself, the Christ. Therefore, he has shown himself to be the TRUE shepherd who shepherds the sheep. The door keeper opens to him and the sheep listens to the voice of the Christ. Notice a "stranger" the sheep will by no means follow but they will flee from him. Why is it that "all people" have not fled from the "strangers" in the earth? After having washed the feet of the disciples, Jesus said , "He that has bathed does not need to have more than his feet washed, but is wholly clean. And you men are clean, but not all." .. "I am not talking about all of you, I know the ones I have chosen." (John 13:10, 18) Those who are chosen do not follow the voice of strangers. When they hear that voice coming from the 'earthly organization' or anyone on earth; they flee. The rest "remain" and are "puzzeled" by the departure of these ones and begin to speak abusively OF them, slandering them as 'apostates' and 'disorderly ones' (1 Peter 4:4).

>>Therefore, Jesus said again, "Most truly I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All those who have come in place of me are thieves and plunderers; but the sheep have not listened to them.<<

When the organization came into the earth and claimed to be 'the truth' and resembled a 'lamb,' those who heard the Spirit and fled (2 Corinthians 6:17, 18), knew them to be thieves and plunderers. And such they did. They plundered the partaking of the bread and wine, commanding others to not partake and executing those who had the calling and continued to partake despite the "requirements" of the organization, they plundered the truth to the earth and took all focus off the Christ and put it upon themselves and Jehovah directly, and they demanded 'association' with them in order to have 'salvation,' thus condemning the rest (Matthew 23:13; Luke 18:9).

>>I am the door; whoever enters through me will be saved, and he will go in and out and find pasturage. The thief does not come unless it is to steal and slay and destroy. I have come that they may have LIFE and might have it in abundance.<<

Those who 'know' this stopped associating with the organization because they 'heard' that the only door is the Christ. Further, they realized that they cannot receive the truth "through the organization." They have to enter in through the door themselves. So, instead of relying on the organization, they have individually entered in through the door and have found pasturage. upon entering that door, they found the One who stood before them came, so that they all could have life... and have it in ABUNDANCE. The "others" who claimed to come from Christ, were there to keep the 'flock' in their hands from going in through the door so that they would continue to suffer at the hands of men (Ezekiel 34:1-24).

>>I am the fine shepherd; the fine shepherd surrenders his soul in behalf of the sheep. The hired man, who is no shepherd and to whom the sheep do not belong as his OWN, beholds the wolf coming and abandons the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them, and scatters them, because he is a hired man and does not CARE for the sheep. <<

Those who claim to be "appointed" or "hired" by the Christ [as a faithful and discreet slave] to shepherd the sheep are "hired men." It is because the sheep to not belong to the hired men as their OWN sheep personally, that when they behold the wolf coming, they abandon the sheep and flee. The Christ came and gave his life for the sheep. The hired men surrenders the life of the sheep for his life. He abandons the sheep to the wolf and the wolf snatches the sheep and scatters them. This is why we are not to rely upon the 'spiritual care' of MEN and rely upon the Christ (Jeremiah 17:5; Psalms 146:3).

>>I am the fine shepherd, and I know my sheep and my sheep know me, and just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I surrender my soul in behalf of the sheep." (John 10:7-15)<<

He knows the sheep as he knows the Father. He loves the sheep so much that he is willing to surrender his life for each one of them. He would give anything to save the life of his sheep; even to his own death. He loves the sheep and the sheep love him, so he surrenders his soul in behalf of the sheep. So, according to Christ, listening to any other voice that is not his voice is listening to the voice of strangers. That is why his sheep do not obey the organization, theirs is the voice of a hired man/stranger.

19

Be merciful, even as your heavenly Father is merciful

by kes152 in

jw
friends

"o the happiness of those that are merciful, since they will be shown mercy.

" (matthew 5:7).

"o the happiness of those who are pure in heart, since they will see god.

kes152

Hello Gretchen,

Our Father said to his servant Moses, "I myself shall cause all my GOODNESS to pass before your face, and I will call upon the name of JaHVeH before you; and I will favor the one whom I may favor and I will show mercy to the one whom I may show mercy." (Exodus 33:19). He later continued saying, "JaHVeh, JaHVeH, a God MERCIFUL and GRACIOUS, slow to anger and abundant in loving kindness and TRUTH, PERSERVING loving kindness for the thousands, pardoning error and transgression and sin..." (Exodus 34:6, 7).

Everything that our Father did and made known in the 'former covenant' was all done out of love. He is love and all things he does are out of love. He gave his people, Israel, law, bread from heaven, and a promise to become his favored people out of all nations. He gave them law so that Israel would be 'protected' from THEMSELVES. Israel, like any other people, need instruction and discipline. They need this so that they can learn the ways of protection and safety so that they do nothing foolish or impulsive that could result in their death from the adversary. The Father made a 'covenant' with them that he would protect them from all their enemies and he himself would be with them. It was necessary for them to 'obey' the Law so that through the Law they would receive kindness from their neighbors and kindness from each other. If they were kind people, even to their enemies, then if anyone wished to harm them for 'no cause at all,' God would certainly fight for them (John 15:25; Genesis 22:17, 18).

Concerning the 'christians' you had experienced, our Lord said, "Be on the watch for false prophets that come to you in sheep's covering, but inside are ravenous wolves. By their fruits YOU will know them." (Matthew 7:15, 16). They are judgmental and gossiping because their father whom they serve is also that way. They wish to do the "desires" of their father. Our Father, however, is not that way. Neither is his Son whom he sent in his own name showed himself to be that way. There is a great distinction and a demarcation set between what is good and what is evil, between what is light and what is darkness. This 'enmity' was set by our Father so that 'good' can be plainly seen from what is bad, that we would not be misled and know the good from the bad and choose the good. Those who demand you to 'look a certain way' and label you abusively because you do not adhere to "their standards" are not sons of our Father. The only 'measuring line' we were to measure ourselves with is the Christ (Isaiah 28:17). We are not to measure "one another" towards the Christ, we are to meausre OURSELVES individually according to the Christ. Christ decides who stands before him, and who falls (Romans 14:4). As for us, we are only to love one another and take care of one another, just as Christ did with us when he was on earth (John 13:35).

To Gumby,

you said: "I see no mercy to those who show mercy. They suffer the same as the wicked. "

Please understand that what you 'see' is not what God sees. You can only see what appears to the eyes (1 Samuel 16:7). Those who you THINK are showing mercy because they make it "look like" they are showing mercy, could, in truth, not be showing mercy. They could be harboring resentment or hate in their hearts for the "actions" they do. Consequently, since they are no different than the "wicked," they suffer the same fate. It truly depends on what one's 'heart' is when they show mercy, .. if they are truly "merciful" ... "FULL of mercy." It depends on what one's motive of the heart is. We cannot see the motives of the heart. Therefore, we cannot say "the merciful" (those with hearts "FULL of mercy") do not get mercy.

Peace to you all,

Aaron

22

The Holy Spirit

by Leolaia in

this was posted originally in the rodney dangerfield thread......

i don't really know much about the trinity other than what i was told as a jw but it does seem to me that the holy ghost is definitely running a distant third in the popularity contest.

when jws get into arguments with trinitarians, it's almost always about whether jesus is god, isn't it?

kes152

Greetings!

If I may, here is a more "simple" answer. in 1 Corinthians 2:11-13 says, "For who among men knows the "things of man" except the SPIRIT of man that is in him? So, too, no one has come to know the things of God, except the SPIRIT of God. Now we received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is from God, that we might know the things that have been kindly given to us by God. These things we also speak, not with words taught by human wisdom, but with those taught by spirit, as we match spiritual with spiritual."

In 1 Corinthians 2:10 says, "For it is to us God has revealed them through his spirit, for the spirit searches into ALL things, even the 'deep things' of God."

The spirit that is in men knows the things of a man.. even the DEEP things of men. In the same way, the spirit that is in God knows God, even the DEEP things of God. Also, this spirit searches into all things and can reveal ALL things to anyone willing to 'listen to' or receive' this spirit. The spirit is the 'essence' of all things living. Just as the spirit of man possesses even the "deepest things" of man, so also the spirit of God carries the very 'essence' of God, even the DEEP things of God. Therefore, when this spirit proceeds FROM THE Father and comes to us, it will reveal to us the deep things of God, even the very essence of God. It revelas his emtions, his love, his feelings, his commandments, his love even for us, his love for all things... even the deepest of things. If we receive such spirit, we will come to "know God" and also become personally 'known' BY God.. due to his spirit that he has given us (1 John 4:13).

19

Be merciful, even as your heavenly Father is merciful

by kes152 in

jw
friends

"o the happiness of those that are merciful, since they will be shown mercy.

" (matthew 5:7).

"o the happiness of those who are pure in heart, since they will see god.

kes152

"O the happiness of those that are merciful, since they will be shown mercy." (Matthew 5:7)

"O the happiness of those who are pure in heart, since they will see God." (Matthew 5:8)

If you are merciful to others, God will be merciful to you. He will give you his Son, so that you who are toiling and loaded down, may be REFRESHED, even as he says:

"Come to ME, all you who are toiling and loaded down and I will REFRESH you. Take MY yoke upon you and learn from ME, for I am mild-tempered and LOWLY in heart, and you will find refreshment for your souls. For my yoke is kindly, and my load is light." (Matthew 11:28-30)

All of us are lacking in wisdom and being in this world, ALL of us NEED refreshment. Religion, men, the world and everything in it has beaten us down. There is One whom we ALL may come to and find "rest" if we truly want it. He is "not far off from any one of us" (Acts 17:27; Jeremiah 23:23).

If you are merciful to others, he, out of the immense KINDNESS of his heart will be merciful to YOU. If you 'call out' for him, and give forth your voice, he will come to you, and he will open your ears, that you may hear him. In that day you will see the GREAT mercy he has for you, and you TRULY will be happy. Your happiness will be so great that NO ONE can take it away from you. In that day you will KNOW that He is in union with his Father, and his Father is in union with him, and he is in union with YOU, and YOU are in union with Him (John 14:20). He will make his words KNOWN to you and you will come to 'know' him (Proverbs 1:23).

He said, "Sanctify them by means of truth; your word is truth. Just as you have sent me forth into the world, I also have sent them forth into the world. And I am sanctifying myself in THEIR behalf that they may be sanctified by means of truth." (John 17:17-19)

We are held sacred by means of truth. The Christ, the 'word' of God, is the truth. He sanctifies himself in OUR behalf that we may be sanctified by means of him. Therefore, let us go forth to him and receive from his fullness; for he is FULL of undeserved kindness and truth, and he adds NO pain with it (John 1:14; Proverbs 10:22; James 1:5).

31

If Energy Cannot be Destroyed, Can God Destroy Satan?

by Satanus in

.

i think not.

ss

kes152

Energy 'can' be destroyed, but not by man. Man is flesh and made of matter and lacks the necessary things needed to destroy energy. However, God can both create and destroy energy with the things he uses to make energy, the light of life.

17

All Scripture Inspired?

by Carmel in

let's assume you believe that jesus was the "son of god" had a direct link to all knowledge, okay?

would it be fair to conclude that he was "informed" of the other greater and older civilizations around the world as he trudged from nazareth to jerusalem?

would he not also be aware of zoroaster, relatively next door, chrisna and buddha further to the east?

kes152

Hello Carmel,

All 'scripture' is indeed inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, and for disciplining in righteousness. All scripture, however, is not in the Bible. Many scriptures are in the Bible and many scriptures are NOT in the Bible. What are we to do?

Listen to his words when he said, "Come to ME, all you who are toiling and loaded down and I will refresh you..." (Matthew 11:28-30). Whether Jew or Greek, whether Buddhist or Hindu, whether slave or free, whether religious or wicked, ALL who are 'toiling and loaded down' are invited to come to Him. Why must we come directly to him?

When the Christ was raised from the dead, God gave him 'all authority in heaven and on earth.' He also gave him a name more excellent than any of the angels. Further, God "sanctified him" (consecrated him) directly to be our high (chief) priest in heaven in all things pertaining to God. Therefore, he is the SOURCE of all the 'truth' there is about himself, about our Father, about life, about all things. All scriptures that "actually" came from God are also 'in him' and only he goes in and actually 'beholds' the face of the Father. Therefore, since such a Holy, High priests exists for us in heaven, we should appraoch him with TRUE hearts and ask him all things, and he will openly tell us the things of his Father.

33

Tree of life

by BluesBrother in

lets face it, the bible does not say and so any explanation is little more than speculation.

those of us here that believe the bible has value can only reason on it as we see fit.

personally, i do accept the scripures but i do not see the need to take all of genesis quite as literally as the wt does.

kes152

Peace be with you.

Adam and Eve were created and given the freedom to eat from EVERY tree that is desireable to satisfaction except from the tree of the knowledge of good and bad. They were not to eat from this tree, because if they partook of such tree, that tree would induce the knowledge of good and the knowledge of bad.. which would eventually bring them death.

The tree of life, however, was designed to do then as it is designed to do now, impart everlasting life. The tree of life was in the garden of Eden, which is not an 'earthly' garden, for it says:

"I know a man in union with Christ who, fourteen years ago -whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know; God knows -was caught away to the "third HEAVEN." Yes, I know such a man -whether in the body or apart from the body, I do not know, God knows -that he was caught away into paradise (or "garden of Eden," see the NWT footnote) and heard unutterable words which is not lawful for a man to speak." (2 Corinthians 12:2-4)

The 'garden of Eden' is in the third heaven. For in Revelation 2:7 he says,

"Let the one who has an ear hear what the spirit says to the congregations: To him that conquers (and receives "heavenly life") I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the 'garden' of God."

Those who gain 'heavenly life' will be in the garden of Eden, the heavenly garden partaking of the tree of life.

The 'tree of life' that all nations must eat from that IMPARTS everlasting life is our Lord, for he says:

"Whoever drinks from the water that I will give him will never get thirsty at all, but the water that I will give him will become in him a fountain of water bubbling up to IMPART everlasting life." (John 4:14)

"Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in yourselves. He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I will resurrect him on the last day" (John 6:53, 54).

The Christ is the man who is happy because he "has not walked in the counsel of the wicked ones, and in the way of sinners he has not stood, and in the seat of ridiculers he has not sat. But HIS delight is in the words of JAH, and in an undertone he observes them day and night." That is why He has become "a tree [of LIFE] that is planted by streams of water, that gives fruit in its own season and the foilage of which does not wither, and EVERYTHING he does will not succeed." (Psalms 1:1-3).

This was fulfilled by the Son in Revelation 22:1, 2 when John says, "And he showed me a river of water of life, clear as crystal, flowing out from the throne of God and of the Lamb down the middle of its broad way. And on this side of the river and on that side the TREE OF LIFE producing twelve crops of fruit, yielding their fruits each month. And the leaves of the trees for the curing of the nations."

11

Heart is seed of motivation?

by Coop Man in

quick question, or please someone straighten me out!.

the bible refers to the heart as the seed of motivation.

is this the literal heart?

kes152

Hello Coop,

Peace be with you.

The heart is not the seed of motivation, it is the source of which all your emotions, desires, cravings (both good and bad) dwell. It is not your physical fleshly heart, but your spirit's heart. The desires of your flesh that have been "deeply embedded" by you in your spirit. The 'spirit' is the TRUE you without your outward appearance. It possesses all your true desires, both hidden and not hidden. When the Father JAH examines your heart, he is examining and seeing your truest motives, your truest desires in the most illicit form. He sees the desires openly in the most uncensored form. The Father, through his Son then elicits (draws out hidden things; brings to light deep things) these things from our hearts and shows them to us. He does this for our benefit that we may have the opportunity to submit these desires to hi and ask him by means of holy spirit to REMOVE these bad desires so that we can have a 'clean heart'and have no hidden wicked motives that will potentially harm someone.

Aaron