Posts by Retrovirus

77

What would the world be like if everybody was a Jehovah Witnesses

by TotallyADD in

jw
friends

on the news the other day they showed a young man after graduating from high school went out and got drunk and had a bad car accident.

he was paralyze from the waist down.

instead of going into deep depression of what he did to himself he started his life over and went to college and was involved in inventing a exoskeleton for disable people.

Retrovirus

AGuest, I only assumed so because she used to be Alice in Wonderland

77

What would the world be like if everybody was a Jehovah Witnesses

by TotallyADD in

jw
friends

on the news the other day they showed a young man after graduating from high school went out and got drunk and had a bad car accident.

he was paralyze from the waist down.

instead of going into deep depression of what he did to himself he started his life over and went to college and was involved in inventing a exoskeleton for disable people.

Retrovirus

In her third post here, Maze says

With a second witness to Biblical matters, now I can remain mild-tempered and lowly in mind.

“Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth. Matthew 5:5

Yet in Post 68 above, it's

OK... Spew a bunch of slanderous, unsubstantiated garbage you conjured in your warped imagination and maybe someone reading will lick it all up verbatim

The mildness didn't last long. Are you sure you'll inherit the earth?

25

Advice needed about my study with a JW.

by Resistance is Futile in

jw
friends

i've never been a jw, and i'm having a difficult time trying to understand the perspective of a born-in jw.

i want to ask questions that will cause this family member to began to think outside the box, but i don't want to trip off any apostate alarms and have him put his guard up.

i also don't want to waste time and energy asking questions that he can easily brush off and give the prepackaged watchtower answer without having to really think.

Retrovirus

I'd just add, keep the tone earnest and inquiring. Encourage chat before and after on non-religious topics.

This is because a standard way of dealing with difficult issues is to shoot the messenger, so they need to see you as something other than an "opposer".

Good Luck!

99

I dont like using "their" name for God

by jean-luc picard in

i realize that i avoid using their name for god.. i can say it................. jehovah.

but i'll avoid it almost always..... if i'm talking with you,.

on the rare occasions that i am in conversation with any jdub family,.

Not saying "Jehovah" was one of the main things that brought my "bible" studies to an end. At first they were quite tolerant when I substituted "God". Then the sighs and stony looks. I tried "Yahweh" instead, they had initially said that it was allowed. OK for a month or two, then more stony looks. But no way could I bring myself to say it.

Finally I was clearly told that since "Jehovah" was the most popular pronounciation in English, it must be approved by God. I asked how you could rely on worldly popularity if as they said the world was controlled by Satan. Didn't play well.

61

JWs and the Family Unit - Calling Maze to defend assertions

by Retrovirus in

in the thread about the wt in russia, maze made the assertions below.. .

jehovah's witnesses as an organization acts as a protection to the family unit.

andthe lie that jehovah's witnesses ruin families is apostate poison.. to aviod derailing that thread, i ask maze to defend them here.. my experience is that the jw religion destroyed my brothers' marriage.

Retrovirus

Thank you all for your help with this. Welcome, Kramseivad, and I'm sorry for your family situation

any religion that breaks the bonds between parent and child is not healthy . . .couldn't agree more.

Thank you Nugget, for your post; it helps me as an outsider to understand.

Maze, I don't think you're a troll, although your name changing and habit of running away from debate is troll like, but then running away is also characteristic of jw when asked hard questions.

It has been established that the wt does not support the family unit and it is not a lie to say that jws ruin families - nor an apostate lie, because I am not an apostate.

I started this thread because in my experience, believing jws accept any answer, however illogical and unsupported, to a question that they find difficult. Didn't want any lurkers to be reassured by Maze's post.

21

Presbyterians Approve Ordination of Gay People

by Maze in

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/11/us/11presbyterian.html.

presbyterians approve ordination of gay people.

after 33 years of debate, the presbyterian church (u.s.a.) has voted to change its constitution and allow openly gay people in same-sex relationships to be ordained as ministers, elders and deacons.

Retrovirus

Sorry for the badtempered post above, Maze! But real Christians would always make sure they were guiltless before fulminating about the mote in a neighbour's eye, right?

21

Presbyterians Approve Ordination of Gay People

by Maze in

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/11/us/11presbyterian.html.

presbyterians approve ordination of gay people.

after 33 years of debate, the presbyterian church (u.s.a.) has voted to change its constitution and allow openly gay people in same-sex relationships to be ordained as ministers, elders and deacons.

Retrovirus

But homosexuality doesn't mix with Christianity

Nor does lying. And being truthful includes either supporting the statements you have made or ackowledging that you have learned differently since you made them.

Please support your asstertions quoted on the OP of this thread.

61

JWs and the Family Unit - Calling Maze to defend assertions

by Retrovirus in

in the thread about the wt in russia, maze made the assertions below.. .

jehovah's witnesses as an organization acts as a protection to the family unit.

andthe lie that jehovah's witnesses ruin families is apostate poison.. to aviod derailing that thread, i ask maze to defend them here.. my experience is that the jw religion destroyed my brothers' marriage.

Retrovirus

Hi again Maze,

As to the Pew survey, GL Tirebiter has provided the needed refresher on statistics. I notice that you didn't address the misuse of stats in the wt as quoted from jwfacts. So by the evidence we'll agree that jw marriages do not have lower divorce rates than the average of "worldly" marriages.

You say without any support

The vast majority of divorces in Jehovah's Organization (where both marriage partners are Jehovah's Witnesses) fall into two categories.

1. A spouse turns their back on Jehovah and their family out of selfish motives.

2. Young persons raised as Jehovah's Witnesses ignore counsel in the Bible and Bible based publications and get married before they are mature enough to shoulder the responsibilities of marriage

Setting aside that the first point presumes guilt (who are you to judge motives?), this is all irrelevant. It does nothing to demonstrate that the jw religion supports the family unit.

No, not all parents inculcate multiculturalism in their children

Sigh. Where did you get the idea that exposure to religious beliefs, or tolerance of another's beliefs is multiculturism? Please check a disctionary or here. And now let's return to topic.

A person should get baptized when they're mature enough to know right from wrong

A person should get baptised when s/he is ready to make a lifetime spiritual commitment which is at least as profound as commitment to a marriage, yes? Yet in the same post you are concerned about marriages contracted by immature people. So it follows that until a person has the maturity to be a committed marriage partner they should delay baptism, right?

Now, if an immature child is baptised and subsequently changes their spiritual beliefs how can it be right to shun them? How is that not harmful to the family unit?

I'd also be grateful if you addressed the questions I asked earlier, namely

1. Can a jw parent allow their child freedom to choose their religion?

2. You say you know many jw's with UBMs who respect their partners' beliefs. Does this respect mean that they don't persistently try to change those beliefs? If they didn't try, wouldn't they be "bloodguilty"?

Look forward to your reply.

Also, Thanks for the great quote, jwfacts!

Retro

61

JWs and the Family Unit - Calling Maze to defend assertions

by Retrovirus in

in the thread about the wt in russia, maze made the assertions below.. .

jehovah's witnesses as an organization acts as a protection to the family unit.

andthe lie that jehovah's witnesses ruin families is apostate poison.. to aviod derailing that thread, i ask maze to defend them here.. my experience is that the jw religion destroyed my brothers' marriage.

Retrovirus

Sorry Maze, i didn't read far enough. Thanks for addressing my concerns.

Atheists claim to be absolutely right. Theists claim to be absolutely right. These individuals are no different than Jehovah's Witnesses are on their stand on certainty. Agnostics are somewhere in the middle

Not all atheists and theists are so certain, and not many theists claim that people who believe differently will shortly be destroyed. AFAIK, no atheists do.

Jehovah's Witnesses don't treat the world with contempt

When someone comes to my door to tell me I follow the wrong religion, I don't feel respected.

You do know that atheists don't allow others to take their children to church. People rear their children according to their core values and beliefs

Another over generalisation. Some may not; others prefer to teach their children critical thinking and let them choose. My father was like that; he had no time for religion but we belonged to a church and he joined in many of the social functions and supported the Seniors' home.

Also that sidestepped the question again. Can a jw parent allow their child freedom to choose their religion?

I know plenty of Jehovah's Witnesses that have unbelieving mates and respect their spouses stand and beliefs

I'm glad that is your experience. Does this respect mean that they don't persistently try to change those beliefs? If they didn't try, wouldn't they be "bloodguilty"?

61

JWs and the Family Unit - Calling Maze to defend assertions

by Retrovirus in

in the thread about the wt in russia, maze made the assertions below.. .

jehovah's witnesses as an organization acts as a protection to the family unit.

andthe lie that jehovah's witnesses ruin families is apostate poison.. to aviod derailing that thread, i ask maze to defend them here.. my experience is that the jw religion destroyed my brothers' marriage.

Retrovirus

Hi and thank you all for all your replies!

jean-luc picard, you expressed it better than I did. To keep a family together, members need to be open minded and willing to compromise, and that is completely opposed to wt teachings.

ihadnoidea wrote My question would be does the Jehovah Witness faith actually better at keeping people married then other faiths? I do not think you can support this assertion with any marriage statistics Exactly. And jgnat's citation from jwfacts showed that they have at least the same number of divorces.

diamondiiz, you may well be right, I did post in a rush of indignation!

possible-san, Thanks for adding the link, I shouldn't have rushed it so, but was at work. Your other links are very interesting!

charlie brown jr So sorry about your family!

VoidEater, great points, I hadn't even thought of the incest, molestation and abuse issues. It is very sad when the top priority is the cover up to preserve the image.

jgnat, thanks for the link to jwfacts. I was thinking more of religiously mixed marriages, but you are very right; if all the marital advice from the wt were divinely inspired, they should have a much lower divorce rate!

Maze, thanks for posting. As jgnat replied, jwfacts gave the source of the statistics. It is ironic that the same article showed the wt as misusing statistics to give a false impression:

"That hate can be replaced with love is illustrated by a survey taken in 1994 of 145,958 of Jehovah's Witnesses in Germany. ? In some countries one marriage out of every two or three ends in divorce. But the above-mentioned survey indicated that presently only 4.9 percent of the Witnesses are divorced or separated from their mates." Awake 1997 Sep 8 p.11

jwfacts continues:

The above article is a classic example of deceptive use of statistics. The Watchtower compares two unrelated figures - 4.9% of Witnesses are divorced; with 50% of worldly marriages ending in divorce - to make it appear that Witness marriages are significantly more successful than "worldly" marriages. The reality is that only about 5% of the general population is divorced, a figure almost identical to that amongst Witnesses.

You continue with literature quotes, but that dodges the point of the OP. It's not what the wt says, but what actually happens. I hope you will respond to what was asked.

Palmtree, that was funny!