Posts by Retrovirus

12

please help me help a friend

by emanresu in

jw
friends

i am not a jw nor have i ever been one, but i joined this forum because a close firend of mine is.. we met and became good friends in the senior year of high school, and i didn't know what it meant to be a jw at the time, all i knew was that they were another christian denomination so i let it slide.. .

it was only after sometime after graduation that i began to really take my faith seriousely, and in the process i decided to do some research on watchtower beliefs, and i was actually scared for her.

now i knew enough by now that if i tried to confornt her on this issue, that would be the last i heard of her so i tried as best i could to not "blaspheme".

Retrovirus

Hi emanresu,

I'm another non-jw who can't maintain a "normal" relationship with my jw friends. It's like this: they'll talk to you, and be very nice as long as they think there's hope of you converting. Ask one difficult question too many and you become a spiritual danger and they'll back off. On the other hand, if you express interest in the cult and try to get their confidence by not opposing, they'll get over hopeful. and when you cease to "make progress", you'll be avoided more than before.

The only chance I see is, if she'll talk to you at all, is avoid religion as a topic completely. Sometimes new nearly-converts find the religion too restrictive, but they have to come to that understanding on their own.

Retro

10

Please reccomend a book

by mankkeli in

jw
friends

would anyone reccomend a good material on .

(1) the history of the world.

(2) the history of religion.. i am just interested in man's development over the years to create gods for himself, any good book would be appreciated, and a review of the book highlighting a short summary is also welcome..

Retrovirus

Hi Mankkeli

Here's an oldie but goodie - The Golden Bough by Sir James George Frazer. At 858 pages it's a big read, but it certainly kept me turning the pages. Frazer is a good scholar and you'll appreciate the difference between his extensive and painstaking research and what the wt calls research. Whether or not you agree with his conclusions you'll learn a lot about rites, mythology and the history of religions.

Summary from Wiki:

The Golden Bough attempts to define the shared elements of religious belief. Its thesis is that old religions were fertility cults that revolved around the worship of, and periodic sacrifice of, a sacred king.

This king was the incarnation of a dying and reviving god, a solar deity who underwent a mystic marriage to a goddess of the Earth, who died at the harvest, and was reincarnated in the spring. Frazer claims that this legend is central to almost all of the world's mythologies.

The germ for Frazer's thesis was the pre-Roman priest-king at the fane of Nemi, who was murdered ritually by his successor:

"When I first put pen to paper to write The Golden Bough I had no conception of the magnitude of the voyage on which I was embarking; I thought only to explain a single rule of an ancient Italian priesthood." (Aftermath p vi)

The book's title was taken from an incident in the Aeneid, illustrated by the British artist Joseph Mallord William Turner: Aeneas and the Sibyl present the golden bough to the gatekeeper of Hades in order to gain admission.

9

What about the Tribulation?

by Retrovirus in

the tribulation was not specifically covered in my "bible studies".

but the main "teacher" several times said how she prayed for strength that she would remain true to jehovah when she was tested "in the persecutions".. so, i understand that there has to be some sort of tribulation and persecution of the faithful before armageddon.

why i'm confused is that every stock market dip, new virus or extreme weather event is hailed as the beginning.

Retrovirus

Thank you all for your replies and helpful information.

@Bigmouth - so the tribulation is the start of Armageddon? And yes, I'd noticed the masochism. Once I asked my "study conductor" a bit skeptically "so the bird flu could be the beginning? . . and GFC could?" and she replied eagerly, "yes, any of them could!"

@Wobble Thanks. I realised the wt "literature" was nonsense because I have a science degree, but I know very little about the Bible and interpretations

@Vanderhoven7 I'm sure you are right, that they happened in the first century.

@Blondie Thanks, that is very clear! So, a call that 'peace and security' have been achieved; then a UN-lead attack on all religions other than jws, then Satan or Gog attacks jws and finally, just in time, Armageddon. Then there's no reason to suppose that any natural or man-made crisis signals Armageddon since no-one is claiming that peace and security have been achieved, nor is there a world-wide attack on religion. It must be hard for jws to really believe it's all about to happen. . .

@transuman68

@TheyCantDoATingMan Thanks, that's what I was trying to say in the OP, agree entirely!

@clarity - Bastards indeed! It's sad to see people so convinced by something so illogical!

Retro

9

What about the Tribulation?

by Retrovirus in

the tribulation was not specifically covered in my "bible studies".

but the main "teacher" several times said how she prayed for strength that she would remain true to jehovah when she was tested "in the persecutions".. so, i understand that there has to be some sort of tribulation and persecution of the faithful before armageddon.

why i'm confused is that every stock market dip, new virus or extreme weather event is hailed as the beginning.

Retrovirus

The tribulation was not specifically covered in my "Bible studies". But the main "teacher" several times said how she prayed for strength that she would remain true to Jehovah when she was tested "in the persecutions".

So, I understand that there has to be some sort of tribulation and persecution of the faithful before Armageddon. Have I got that right?

Why I'm confused is that every stock market dip, new virus or extreme weather event is hailed as the beginning. But didn't the Bible say not to be alarmed at such things? Seems to me that the only trustworthy sign would be this tribulation.

So would it need to be global? Take any particular form? Any information would be appreciated.

thanks, Retro

12

How are Bible Studies Conducted?

by Band on the Run in

i never found a victim and then i was out.

may i ask you how it felt to have the umbrage to go to someone's house, bring a bible, and witness lit, and teach another person about the bible.

the witness lit was always so dorky.

Retrovirus

Hi BotR (or M?)

I'm a non-jw and so can only give you the "other side" perspective.

I'd never asked for a Bible study. My ex-SIL asked people from my local congregation to approach me because I was "interested". In fact, I was just keeping communication lines open with her, we exchanged letters every couple of months.

So these two very pleasant ladies came and mentioned SIL's name, and offered to answer any questions. Silly me, I set a time with them.

When they returned, full of friendly and warm chat, they brought the "Really Teach" booklet. They wanted to say a prayer, and very nicely made me aware that I would not contribute or take it in turns. Gentle disapproval when I declined the suggestion to "go through the book and answer the questions". Absolutely, the literature was dorky. But neither lady thought so; they were so certain, and I didn't want to upset them.

As allelsefails said, there was much looking up of the Bible. but only the verse that was referenced.

I felt the jw ladies were doing me a favour, and in hindsight, they encouraged me to think so. When I asked difficult questions, they brought their computer and the DVD. Eventually my lack of progress and refusal to attend meetings or conventions brought things to a halt.

Nor have I heard from my SIL since I "failed" the study. . . ah, well.

L.

46

Apostates Shut the door of everlasting life in Men's Faces

by mankkeli in

jw
friends

i was discussing with an elder today, and as usual the conversation drifted towards apostates and their line of reasoning, he angrily looked into my eyes with the scriptures in his hand and told me:.

(1) that apostates are destructive peddlers who shut the door of everlasting life on people as they are very sure they have no portion in there.

he quoted matt 23:13- 13 woe to you, scribes and pharisees, hypocrites!

Retrovirus

and they are going arround, looking for gullible ones who are seeking the kingdom with honest heart

But that's not what apostates do. . .it is exactly what believing jws do!

6

In pursuit of my dreams

by fade_away in

jw
friends

"followed dreams reaching higher.....couldn't survive the fall".

so the lyrics of one of my favorite bands say.. .

so i'm about to turn 27 and thanks to the good ol wt teachings of how this evil system of things is trying to corrupt us with satan's higher education, now i'm stuck in a 100+ degree warehouse making crap money handling and shipping heavy packages while following bizarre rules the boss has.

Retrovirus

fade-away, from my perspective you are a kid, and the world is yours for the taking!

Work out your career plan like a project - objective, costs, benefit over time, risks and mitigation, other issues. That will show you if it's worth the time and money invested.

If it looks promising, it will also help get your wife on board. Ultimately she stands to benefit as well if you are happy and earning enough.

If it doesn't stack up, consider Plan B; what other work could you enjoy that needs less education and/or pays better? I know there's a huge demand for network professionals here and you could get some training in electronics.

It's your life, take charge and let the regrets go bury themselves (but it took me long enough to work that out )

7

Back from my trip home.

by Tuber in

jw
friends

i am back from my trip home.. .

i have brought back with me three pieces of jw lit given to me by my stepmother: bible teach, was life created & the origin of life.. .

i didn't get much time to discuss religion with my stepmother, as i was pretty busy running around catching up with people.. .

Retrovirus

Hi Tuber!

Are you close to your little sisters? When you visit, make time for them, take them out and exchange email addresses or phone numbers.

However it goes with you stepmother, they will need an alternative viewpoint and someone "outside" they can trust. Or turn to, if ever they get baptised and then decide to leave. Remember less than half the born-in young people stick with it these days.

Retro

27

WT Lexicon

by 00DAD in

jw
friends

i was thinking it would be helpful if we put together a wt lexicon for those that are not too familiar with wt terminology.

it's important for them to understand these theocratic expressions so that they too can understand and speak the "pure language" of truth.

- zeph.

Retrovirus

Welcome, man oh man!

Philosophers - enemies of the truth

Apostates - enemies of the truth

Free thinkers - enemies of the truth

Thanks, Mankkeli, from here

Opposers - enemies of the truth

23

Depressing

by mankkeli in

jw
friends

isn't it depressing to believe that this is all there is to life?, an elder told me today that philosophers, apostates, free thinkers and many other enemies of the truth alike do not offer any hope for the future.

but this is the only organisation offering the hope.. what do you think?, the thought of living for just 70 or 80 yrs and not returning back is very depressing or do some other line of reasonings offer any hope?.

i am just curious..

Retrovirus

An elder told me today that philosophers, apostates, free thinkers and many other enemies of the truth alike do not offer any hope for the future. But this is the only organisation offering the hope.

As others have pointed out, the second sentence is not true. How is telling untruths consistent with the Bible?

"enemies of the truth" is name calling; ad-hominem. How is that consistent with the Golden Rule in the Bible?

Hope for the future. The future is in God's hands (if/however you believe in God). If God is our loving father, all we need to do is love, trust and live happily in the present. Where did you lose your faith? When did the elder lose his faith? Have any jws real faith?