Posts by Retrovirus

33

My Husband's Kids Have Cut Him Off

by headisspinning in

well, my husband's worst fear has happened.

he told his kids, ages 15 and 10 that he was coming to visit them over the holidays.

his ex-wife limits his telephone contact to one call per week, so when he called them last week to arrange the specific days he would see them, his son told him that he got baptized back in september and would no longer be willing to see his father.. this came as a complete shock.

Retrovirus

Dear tec,

You are right, that it was the ex's fault. But the kid was too young to understand that cutting ties with one's father, however imperfect, would hurt both more in the end.

The children of Head's husband also think they are doing the right thing. Also agreed, their mother is acting wrongly even though she is under cult influence and very likely also still hurting and angry from losing her husband.

I didn't mean that he should "cut all ties", and it's great to see from Head's post above that he can still phone with his children.

But forcing visitation when a child is strongly opposed may not be a good idea. I fully believed that my kid would have tried to run away. Doesn't seem to have the makings of a fun weekend, and the risk terrified me.

Headisspinning, your daughter is smart!

29

Theocratic warfare

by marriedtoajw in

what is theocratic warfare exactly as it is taught by the watchtower?

are all jw's instructed to apply it?

how is it applied and to what degree and in what circumstances?

Retrovirus

Hello and welcome, marriedtoajw!

I believe that my wife and her family are using Theocratic Warfare stragegies in trying to indoctrinate my kids behind my back. Do any of you think it would be helpful to call them on it or at least question her about what Theocratic Warfare is ?

I'm a non-jw whose brother was married to a jw. My ex-SIL tried everything possible to influence their children, but my brother insisted on giving them a balanced perspective and not forcing meeting and/or service attendence etc. The marriage was of course very stressful and ended when the children were in their teens. None of the children became jws.

As I understand it, to a believing jw, slanting the picture isn't deception, or "theocratic warfare" (I've only seen that phrase used in old lit, usually wrt lying by omission in court). Over-influencing, pressuring, guilt tripping, leaving "hard-core" stuff out, is just a way of life for them. If education and the internet are demonised, and all your info comes from a single biassed source, it's easy to prevent logical thinking and reality checking.

I'd concentrate on teching the children critical thinking, and making sure they get a sound education. Give them alternatives to the jw way of life, fun alternatives. You are after all the head of the household (in jw terms).

As for calling your wife and family on it; you know them best. It is likely, however, to set up their defenses. The wt literature encourages them to fear and abhor any who try to "weaken their faith", and this could stress your marriage.

Best wishes in your difficult situation, Retro.

33

My Husband's Kids Have Cut Him Off

by headisspinning in

well, my husband's worst fear has happened.

he told his kids, ages 15 and 10 that he was coming to visit them over the holidays.

his ex-wife limits his telephone contact to one call per week, so when he called them last week to arrange the specific days he would see them, his son told him that he got baptized back in september and would no longer be willing to see his father.. this came as a complete shock.

Retrovirus

Hi Headisspinning, so very sorry to hear this.

When our marriage ended, my ex was rather slack with visiting commitments (last minute changes, coming late etc). One child made excuses for him; the other became angry and refused to talk to him, let alone visit. Also threatened to run away if forced to stay with him for weekends etc.

I urged the ex to be patient rather than to try to force the issue but it still took many months.

The reason I'm boring you with this is that the kid was FIVE. I cannot imagine how we could have forced any visits at ten or fifteen.

Therefore I'd be with those who take the long term view - ie, let the children know their father loves them and has the door open for them, but leave it at that. Avoid religion when you can communicate, but tell about the fun times with your kids. Given the drop out rate of young jws, I'd hope that time is on your side.

Hugs to you both, Retro

4

What is in a name?

by sabastious in

if god is a person then he has a personal name.

that is an arguement that bounces around in my memory like an echo in a metal hallway.

"a name is the most important thing.

Retrovirus

Sad but true, Sabastious!

If a person makes choices based off a Brand then they are actually living their worst nightmare. At that point they become out of control of themselves because they have handed their choices off to some other entity

It seems to me that jws don't want to be in control in that way. They are comfortable with other fallible humans telling them what to do, think, believe, and even how to feel about it. At least then they "belong". Anything that challenges this is a labelled "threat", or "Satan".

Retro, of the Bad Association Brand

51

Religious People Live Longer

by mankkeli in

regular involvement in religious activities goes hand in hand with better physical health and a longer life, according to a statistical analysis of 42 independent studies published since 1977 that have addressed this issue, states science news.

religious involvement, especially the public type, showed a statistically significant relationship to higher survival rates, the scientists say.

several reasons have been proposed for the findingsthe shunning of risky behaviors, marital stability, less depression associated with matters beyond direct control, greater social contacts, and positive emotions and attitudes.

Retrovirus

Hi Sizemik, I also referenced and quoted from the actual artice.

Another quote, which Mankkeli also omitted (no suprise)

Researchers face daunting problems in assessing religiousness, Kaplan says

"religiousness" means very different things to different people, and lumping all who participate in activities organised by any religion means that any conclusions must be heavily qualified.

Mankkeli's conclusion - the selective quotes should urge people back into a cult - is classic black and white thinking.

51

Religious People Live Longer

by mankkeli in

regular involvement in religious activities goes hand in hand with better physical health and a longer life, according to a statistical analysis of 42 independent studies published since 1977 that have addressed this issue, states science news.

religious involvement, especially the public type, showed a statistically significant relationship to higher survival rates, the scientists say.

several reasons have been proposed for the findingsthe shunning of risky behaviors, marital stability, less depression associated with matters beyond direct control, greater social contacts, and positive emotions and attitudes.

Retrovirus

Mankkeli, since you failed to cite your source I've helped you out (and you a "professor" - LMAO!).

The artice is here.

And here's a bit that was carefully omitted:

George A. Kaplan, a social epidemiologist at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor,

expresses skepticism about the new report. “There are only a handful of good studies on religion

and physical health,” so mixing them with many inferior studies “doesn’t tell us much

more than we know already,” he says.

“There is absolutely no basis for recommending religiosity as a preventive strategy [in

health care],” Kaplan says.

At least you can only improve, Mankkeli!

37

Outright Misrepresentations of Quotes and Citations in Watchtower Literature

by Londo111 in

the research of doug mason, annomaly, and others have been eye opening in regards to the society's recent articles on 607 bc.

what i find most disturbing is the misrepresentations of scholars, who are quoted in such a way to say one thing, when they meant something completely different.

it is one thing to teach a doctrine, and quite another to play fast and loose with the truth.

Retrovirus

My jw ladies gave me the earlier "Creation" book, that relied heavily on Francis Hitching, even referring to him as an "expert" - wtf??

He has a basic science degree and has never been employed as a scientist or teacher.

I found this quite shocking as I couldn't find any such reference on the net - it looked as if they'd simply made it up.

37

AlanF Interview with Creation Book author Harry Peloyan 1997

by besty in

this has possibly been posted before (i hadn't seen it) - i found it a fascinating read - well done alanf for fronting it up..... it can also be found online at http://www.reexamine.org/wtobserver/apps/pbcs.dll/article86c8.html?aid=/20040309/history/204007.

interview with a watchtower society author on wednesday, 27 august 1997, i met with harry peloyan for about 1 1/2 hours in the lobby of the 25 columbia heights bethel office in brooklyn, new york.

my purpose was to discuss problems with the creation book with him, since he is its main author.

Retrovirus

Marking!

24

What is the most ironic statement you have seen in the Watchtower?

by Indian Larry in

there are so many good ones, but this has got to be near the top of the list: .

*** w56 2/1 p. 88 par.

45 cautious as serpents among wolves ***.

Retrovirus

There's a beauty in the latest public Watchtower, on page 10:

We may also show humility by the way we respond to other people's suggestions. Instead of rejecting an idea

simply because we did not think of it ourselves, we may wisely welcome comments from others. (Proverbs 15:22). Such an open-minded attitude especially benefits those with a measure of authority.

“I’ve found that a good overseer creates an environment where people feel free to express themselves,” says an experienced supervisor named John. He adds: “It takes humility to recognize that someone under your oversight may have a better way of doing than you do. But then again, no-one - not even an overseer - has a monopoly on good ideas".

When we imitate Abraham by listening to the suggestions of others and by performing lowly services in their behalf, we gain Jehovah's favor. After all, "God opposes the haughty ones, but he gives undeserved kindness to the humble ones" 1Peter 5:5

Hope the GB, COs and elders are listening!

44

WT Society Appoints Elders/MS Based on " Functions " Performed - not ....

by flipper in

jw
friends

........... holy spirit or any " fruitages of the spirit " like love, kindness, mildness, meekness , etc.

shown by men considered for elder or ms positions.

qualities or true positive character traits are not that important to the wt society in appointments of these men in jw congregations.. no, the real " qualifications " that a jw man needs to exhibit is being able to report 10 hours a month in knocking on people's doors offering wt and awake magazines !

Retrovirus

Hi Mr Flipper,

A thought from an "outsider" - everything I've read and seen indicates that the WT equates "spirituality" or "spiritual maturity" to blind obedience. From all you've posted, this applies to elders as much as to any other jws. Are elders allowed to stray a step from the "handbook", even if circumstances may suggest a more subtle approach, or even (J forbid!), recommending "worldly" medical or psychiatric advice? Or worse yet, child protection agency or police intervention which is not directly mandated by law?

So perhaps a blinkered trust is more important than strength of character, compassion and real greatness of spirit. To the WT at least.

Hope all is going well for you and your wife, Retro