Posts by Retrovirus

5

The Three Phases Of "The Truth"

by Kensho in

jw
friends

i had a discussion one day with my son about "the truth" i stated the truth is fluid it is always in motion never as black and white as we would like to think because as humans we are always growing and learning new things (hopefully).. ridiculed-violently opposed-becomes self-evident are the 3 phases that are seen when any new discovery in science or breakthrough technology first appears.

the following is what i surmize are the 3 main phases jw's go through when faced with the real truth.

(from personal experience).

Retrovirus

Yes, I can relate. Claiming to have "the Truth" cannot be sustained

In my "Bible Studies" I must have overdone the questions - or the tolerance for questions is limited even then.

I identified three stages which may align:

1. Denial - "read it again carefully" or " you didn't understand"

2. Poisoning the well - "where did you get that?" "who said this?" "They cannot be trusted" "that webpage is worldly/satanic"

3. Shoot the messenger "you don't really want to learn, do you?"

Sadly they never got beyond that - but seeing how others here have suffered as they exited, perhaps that's OK. My only aim was and is to plant a few doubts so that they'll be a bit hesitant with future converts.

46

My Study Conductor Jumped Ship - Any Possible Explanations?

by InterestedOne in

jw
friends

my study conductor has informed me that he & his wife are switching to a foreign language congregation that is far away from the territory they live in (it will involve a lot of driving back & forth).

because he is switching congregations, he said he will not have the energy to devote to my study and recommended another brother who could take over, and i have met him.

however, this change happened simultaneously with a decision i have made.

Retrovirus

What dgp and Lozhasleft said. I know that JWs are up for any kind of Bible study because my ex-SIL and I corresponded regularly for years and after a few months she'd say "that's the family news; now for the study. . . ". Didn't even know what is was in those days!

When I didn't "progress" she set the locals onto me. We lasted another 8 months, and then they abandoned me to Satan also.

The key is, do you validate their faith by "progressing in the Truth" (aka "growing spiritually" ), or make them uncomfortable by asking too many questions and failing to accept their "authority".

Hello kjw53!

by Retrovirus in

jw
friends

welcome to the forum!.

i noticed you have posted a consistent message on a number of threads, and wanted to give you a your own platform to tell us why you are here and anything else you'd like us to know.. fwiw, i'm a non-jw who has members and friends in the organisation.

i have limited contact with them because i've not "progressed" satisfactorily with my "studies".

Retrovirus

Welcome to the forum!

I noticed you have posted a consistent message on a number of threads, and wanted to give you a your own platform to tell us why you are here and anything else you'd like us to know.

FWIW, I'm a non-jw who has members and friends in the Organisation. I have limited contact with them because I've not "progressed" satisfactorily with my "studies". That is, they limit the friendship, not I.

Look forward to hearing from you, Retro

44

Quick Question (or two, or three)...

by AGuest in

jw
friends

may you all have peace!.

although i realize the responses may not be "quick", a response on another thread prompts me to ask:.

"what do you mean by "spiritual"?

Retrovirus

Thanks for correcting my understanding, Shelby.

Last year I completed training as a palliative care volunteer. One of the areas covered was identifying the "spiritual" needs of the patient and carers, and where possible linking with those who could help. Here "spiritual" covered everything bar physical; the need for peer companionship, atmosphere (eg country or seaside), music or craft, discussion on particular topics; religion was only a small part of it. So that's how I thought of the word.

You have a point about the "governing body" - they seem more like dictators than governers! And "Armageddon" is constantly used and abused by the media in particular. The origins of words are interesting, but origins don't own words, any more than parents own children.

Is there not another word that would better describe the "experience"?

Well, I tried "insight".

Wishing you peace also, Retro

44

Quick Question (or two, or three)...

by AGuest in

jw
friends

may you all have peace!.

although i realize the responses may not be "quick", a response on another thread prompts me to ask:.

"what do you mean by "spiritual"?

Retrovirus

Shelby asks

Also, to anyone who's paying attention, is "spiritual" really an accurate word for those who don't believe IN the spirit [being]? I mean, the "man" other than the physical being?

Why wouldn't it be? All the definitions Mr Flipper gave are legitimate and in common use. Is it reasonable to redefine the language to showcase a particular belief?

Also, I responded to your OP question, which was much broader:

What do you mean by "spiritual"? What is "spiritual" to you?"

Beliefs change over time. Word definitions do too. I may be wrong, but get the impression you ask a question only to drive home a predetermined answer.

Best wishes in any case, Retro

44

Quick Question (or two, or three)...

by AGuest in

jw
friends

may you all have peace!.

although i realize the responses may not be "quick", a response on another thread prompts me to ask:.

"what do you mean by "spiritual"?

Retrovirus

Hi Shelby,

It's an interesting question and I don't have a complete answer, let alone a quick one.

Whether I believe in God is moot. I certainly don't believe in the Bible OT God. Perhaps the best way I could explain it is that there are much better people than I, and better ones then them, and the "goodness" must come from somewhere. . .

Yet I've had a "spiritual" experience; perhaps best to call it an insight. It greatly helped me at a low point in my life, and still gives me a perspective that helps me grow in tolerance and enjoyment of life.

My present way of explaining it is that we don't know everything; in fact I don't think we know much. We have opinions or belief systems about what we are (physical and/or spiritual) that may or may not be right. Often "spiritual" or "supernatural" are just words to flag that we don't know.

I'm OK with not knowing; that way new viewpoints and discoveries don't faze me.

Retro

16

Did you fake a prayer at the dinner table?

by fade_away in

i was terrible at prayers.

it was hard for me to talk to someone i can't see or hear.

everyone else put their heads down at the dinner table so i needed to do the same or i'll look suspicious.

Retrovirus

When we did the "Bible Studies" I quickly realised that the opening and closing prayers were conducted by the study giver, or her husband when he came along (I didn't realise the rampant sexism then). There was a lot of "Jehovah" this and that, as if God needed to be reminded of his name, and I was allowed to say "amen" at the end.

I learned to keep quiet till she was done, and then not say "amen". When she asked about that I explained that prayer is personal, and I preferred to keep it that way. Probably another reason why I'm "bad association". But really, it is the height of rudeness to impose your conversation with a (real or imaginary) God on others to teach them what you think are the correct forms.

70

May 15th WT - Wives Should be Obedient, Submissive & Not Disagree

by flipper in

jw
friends

once again we received the may 15th " witness only " wt from our lurking jw friend.

even though i've been out for over 7 years and haven't attended in that long - i never cease to be amazed at the arrogance of this patriarchal man pleasing wt society in it's dismissive attitude towards women .

it's horrible.

Retrovirus

Thanks Mr Flipper, It's great that you were regular in child support. All the sadder that your ex-wife was OK with turning your daughters away from you, or was that purely the religion?

Also hope you feel better soon.

Another thought, more on topic - I notice the watchtower seems to try and differentiate itself from other Christian religions; yet their notions on women's place fit right in with extreme fundamentalist protestant groups. Odd, isn't it? As other posters have said, they belong in the middle ages or further back.

70

May 15th WT - Wives Should be Obedient, Submissive & Not Disagree

by flipper in

jw
friends

once again we received the may 15th " witness only " wt from our lurking jw friend.

even though i've been out for over 7 years and haven't attended in that long - i never cease to be amazed at the arrogance of this patriarchal man pleasing wt society in it's dismissive attitude towards women .

it's horrible.

Retrovirus

Hi Flipper!

A foolish woman likely squanders her family's hard-earned resources. A supportive wife is not like that. She COOPERATES with her husband in financial matters

This 1950s viewpoint makes me so mad! Talk about painting with a broad brush! No wonder they don't print this rubbish in the door-to-door wt.

I was by no means an obedient wife, but held a job, as almost all women do. I provided the main income working even through pregnancies while my ex started ventures which failed. After we separated I raised the children with no financial support from him.

All my women friends earn, most in 2 income families. One who was the main breadwinner recently separated and therefore her family home had to be sold. I'm sure in the poorer countries where the jw are actively recruiting women work from dawn to dusk.

What about if the husband squanders resources? Happens often enough! Sould the submissive wife COOPERATE right along?

SHEESH!!! (rant mode off)

43

WT KINGDOM FARM SOLD $$$$$

by DannyHaszard in

http://www.lansingstar.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2454&itemid=66.

.

Retrovirus

Hi and Welcome, U-Dontknow! You seem interested in wt history, for a non-witness.