hello, i am new to this site and it is comforting to know that i am not the only one that has problem with wts.
i'm 36 and single parent with 8 year old son.
i work full time from 8am to 5pm in order to support both of us.
A warm welcome, Umadevi!
I'm a non-jw (failed to progress at "bible study", so now bad association). I also raised my two as a single parent.
Any God that may exist and love us, would know that caring for and providing for your son is the best and most important thing you can do.
Read on here, read the books suggested and have a look at jwfacts; then make up your own mind! It's important, more especially for your son's future!
Best wishes always, Retro
hello to jwn!
this is standfirm.
i mainly post on the topix jehovah's witness forum, but i decided to give it a try over here also.
Hi again StandingFirm,
Thanks for your reply. I cannot provide "convincing apostate material" because I'm not an apostate. But my experience is the mirror image of yours: I was in a "bible study" for many months and found the wt material quite unconvincing. So perhaps we could get to specific materials.
I reply to Flipper, you quote a recent wt article:
"Andre, who had served Jehovah for years, had the bitter experience of being led astray by apostate thinking. He felt that having a quick look at an apostate Web site would not be dangerous. He recalls: “Initially, I was attracted to the so-called truths that the apostates spoke of. The more I examined what they said, the more I came to think that I was justified in leaving Jehovah’s organization. But later, as I did some research on the apostates’ arguments against Jehovah’s Witnesses, I became aware of how crafty the false teachers were. Information taken out of context was their ‘strong evidence’ against us. Thus, I decided to start reading our publications again and to attend the meetings. Soon I realized how much I had missed.” Happily, Andre returned to the congregation." -p. 19
So, what specific "apostate material" have you researched? If you don't have a preference, could we start with jwfacts?
In turn, I'm happy to discuss any part of "What does the Bible Really Teach?" and explain what I found unbelievable.
Retro
hello to jwn!
this is standfirm.
i mainly post on the topix jehovah's witness forum, but i decided to give it a try over here also.
Interesting!
I like to practice defending my beliefs against opposing beliefs, voiced by whomever
My own beliefs vary over time and are always available for adjustment, preferably by reality; possibly by logic. The beliefs of all religions I know also change over time, just not often as fast as jw beliefs.
You replied to The Love Doctor
The Bible in the case of disfellowshipping also does not make exceptions in the case of family members
Where does the Bible say anything about disfellowshipping?
hello to jwn!
this is standfirm.
i mainly post on the topix jehovah's witness forum, but i decided to give it a try over here also.
Hello and Welcome, StandFirm!
I'm not a jw, but have had "bible studies" with some kind neighbors, which have left me with a lot of questions.
Hopefully you will give me some answers!
You write ...
and my defenses the best they can be
Whom or what do you need to defend against?
Retro
in today's watchtower study, towards the end, you had one of those typical comments by a former df'ed witness expressing appreciation for being shunned.
these comments always remind me of a stalinist show trial in which the accused enthusiastically accepts being executed for the greater good (probably to save his family).. after this kind of nonsense is expressed, you will get a flurry of self righteous comments emphasizing how important it is to shun your disfellowshipped relatives, so that they can come back in the "truth".. oh, really?
do any of these people raising their hand realize that, if the "success" of disfellowshipping depends on your shunning, then the "repentant" person is "coming back in the truth" for the sake of their relatives -and not because of fearing jehovah !!!???.
Welcome, Tracylee!
(For background, I'm a non-jw, "failed" to make progress in the "bible study")
A general question, if a jw must speak to someone in the course of their work, are they still obliged to shun? That would make for some bizarre scenarios, if, say, the jw was a doctor or emergency services. . Or if the "shunned" person was one of these. ..
Does the wt allow no leeway at all for common sense?
well, it just sort of came to me while i was driving.. the doctrine of new light is a false analogy.. why had i not considered this before?.
here is what i'm thinking; see if you don't agree.... jehovah's witnesses are divided into three distinct tiers of membership.. 1.governing body anointed.
2.clueless anointed.
This was my light-bulb moment for the day
Jehovah's Witnesses are divided into three distinct tiers of membership.
1.Governing Body anointed
2.Clueless anointed
3.The rest of the non-anointed schmucks
Is that about right?
Mr Flipper has explained this to me before, but I still had trouble believing it. The unbelievable arrogance of decreeing that all anointed not on the GB are clueless! And the R&F simply accept it. . .
i don't understand why the wt puts so much time and effort into informing people about the intricacies of blood transfusions and fractions, but they don't really focus attention on the dietary side of not eating blood.
because it was clearly a dietary restriction in the bible and maybe not so clearly in regard to blood transfusions (i'm still pondering this part).. is that ever discussed with bible studies or prior to baptism?
it seems to me that if the command to 'abstain from blood' is so important that people will put their life on the line over it, then shouldn't very clear direction be spelling out in detail about what foods are okay to eat and what foods aren't?
Hi Headisspinning,
I could be called a Christian, the group I belong to have similar beliefs to Unitarians.
On the blood issue I'd just emphasise that blood transfusions were not known in Biblical times and therefore cannot be covered by what was or wasn't allowed then. When given intravenously, blood functions as an organ, and is not a food.
I also agree with Pirata's point - What is more important; the symbol of life or life itself?
So no, the WTs' complicated rules on blood fractions make no sense to me at all.
Retro
sorry for the redundancy of this being the 3rd article out of this magazine i've made a thread on- but i felt it was important to share these quotes from the aricle titled " make your way successful - how ?
" i think you'll see the extreme dissing of higher education here and guilt tactics used to discourage jw members from getting a college education or earning a decent living.. under the subheading " higher education " ?
it states, " a christian has a scriptural obligation to care for his family, and that includes providing for their material needs.
A Christian has a scriptural obligation to care for his family, and that includes providing for their material needs. Still, does this really require a college or a university degree
Really horrible. Effectively saying "you needn't help your children get any reasonable qualifications" Yet I'm sure there's no problem if you support them while they endlessly pioneer?
Reminds me of my ex-MIL who had often been kept home from school to look after younger siblings - she did her very best to frustrate any career ambitions I had and guilt me if I put the kids into day care. This during the ex's bankruptcies!
Yet another attempt to tether the next generation. And it won't work.
in a non-study article in the jw only watchtower is an article titled " should youths get baptized ?
" the wt society is losing young people in very large numbers - so how else to try stemming the exodus than putting pressure on jw parents to indoctrinate and instill mind control into their children ?
in one section here in this article it almost sounds like a version of " 20 questions " that the wt society asks parents to determine if their children are making " spiritual progress " as they phrase it.
Mr Flipper, that's terrible! What kind of religion presumes to come between a parent and children.
But as a form of coercion, I doubt its long term success. Parents have threatened kids with "conform or lose out financially - free board, will etc" since forever and it's never been a good strategy; they lose the best ones who can make it on their own.
The shunning is a far worse step; that the jws are never allowed to mend the bridges.
Also just noticed the pic you pointed out of the babies "all born sinners" - wierd! Is that more of the "don't trust your heart, just follow whatever we say" stuff?
I just devoutly hope that any lurkers reading will find it in their hearts not to shun anyone and most especially not their own family. And also that your daughter keeps in touch.
Retro
in a non-study article in the jw only watchtower is an article titled " should youths get baptized ?
" the wt society is losing young people in very large numbers - so how else to try stemming the exodus than putting pressure on jw parents to indoctrinate and instill mind control into their children ?
in one section here in this article it almost sounds like a version of " 20 questions " that the wt society asks parents to determine if their children are making " spiritual progress " as they phrase it.
Ambersun wrote
That illustration of a son being booted out of the front door into a world he is totally unprepared for (having been isolated from it all his life) with his belongings crammed into the rucksack on his back fills me with horror
. . and as a mother, I feel it too.
Perhaps they should have titled it "By this ye shall know them, the love they have for one another?
The contradicitions astound me. . .
