To NLW's Wife - Yeah - I know. I got going and just couldn't shut up. LOL.
saltyoldlady
JoinedPosts by saltyoldlady
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27
The blessings of being disfellowshipped
by JRK indon't get me wrong, it does suck.
but after being on ex-jw boards for years, and being df'ed for almost 10; i do see some hidden blessings.. first, you do not have to struggle with fading successfully.
you are just out; the cord has been cut.
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113
High Profile Case: Seeking Reinstatement
by headisspinning inbut our situation is very difficult and quite high profile.... i was raised as a jw and my mother was very strict and abusive.
i got baptized at age 14.. my mother actually called on my (present) husband's mom in service.
she was on the initial call resulting in his mom coming in the truth and him being raised in it from about age 8 or 9.. despite a very abusive step-father, he followed his mom's lead and came into the truth.
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saltyoldlady
Dear Headspinning - First I want to say I will be praying with all my heart for you and your hubby to be surrounded with God's love - to help you through this traumatic time. It is wonderful that you have this deep bond with one another - treasure it, and thank God for it. He meant you to strengthen one another. I am so glad that the ex spouses involved have had the maturity to encourage you back into the fold. And I will pray that the contact with your hubbie's former children by his previous marriage can be increased and grow - that things can soften in that area.
May I also encourage you to read Ray Franz's book In Search of Christian Freedom - it is available in PDF format for $9.95 last I looked and contains so much spiritual depth. It is the 2nd and last book he wrote. I wrote letters to him and he always corresponded right back - sometimes with lengthy letters that were so rich. When I told him I was so sad about what had happened to him but I still found much good in the organization - my view at that time similar to yours - his reply was beautiful - he just simply said he was glad that I had found good and I knew he was sincere in that expression. It was so remarkable he didn't harbor bitterness in his soul. He accepted me where I was, as a person beginning to see problems, but as a person that still treasured much in the organization. I want to extend the same dignity to you.
To Wanna Be Free - thank you for the marvelous You Tube video - I watched the whole hour and thirteen minutes worth - and was so moved by it - tears even streamed down my face as I felt their miracle of change. Though I still am anti-trinitarian in my views and was so before ever knowing the WTS but it was so very moving to see their willingness to let the Bible speak its truth to them and their courage to just follow the Word and not the teachings and traditions of men. And I kept wondering would the brothers in the Governing Body of today's WTS ever be willing to do the same? It is indeed an amazing miracle to see the Worldwide Church of God come out from under their legalistic background. If it happened once for one organization it could happen again. Prayer is indeed a mighty force and I thought the one sister's comments about Jack Hayford doing a prayer walk around the campus so fascinating. He was the same man who so inspired Stormie O'Martian on her spiritual course and Headspinning I highly recommend The Power of a Praying Woman by Stormie O'Martian to you also, and the Power of a Praying Wife another marvelous one to help your spiritual walk while you are waiting. You will not find anything doctrinally objectionable in these. And wishing you peace - not in the way the world gives it but as our Lord extended it.
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The Gentile Times Reconsidered
by Spade indisproving the date 1914 as a significant year in bible prophecy is of great importance to some (e.g.
carl o. jonsson).
along with the meticulous details of bible and secular chronology, broadening one's horizons when assessing exactly what this date represents when compared against the 6000 years of human history likewise has merit.
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saltyoldlady
Spade - you are one CLASSIC example of why we are no longer, or have never become part of, nor will ever return to the WTS.
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27
The blessings of being disfellowshipped
by JRK indon't get me wrong, it does suck.
but after being on ex-jw boards for years, and being df'ed for almost 10; i do see some hidden blessings.. first, you do not have to struggle with fading successfully.
you are just out; the cord has been cut.
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saltyoldlady
The blessings have been surprising and many -
#1 I used to use 2 tanks of gas a month hauling everyone else around - and going back and forth to the meetings and field service. Now I only use about 1 tank every three months so that is a major financial blessing plus tons of time saved and irritation about people who were never on time and made me wait while they got ready, sometimes making me late for the meetings, etc., etc. And the gratitude for going miles out of my way was mostly zilch - there was one faithful sister that always made an effort to reimburse me and was very appreciative - but the rest just looked at what I did as "my Christian duty" on their behalf. And of course the maintenance costs saved should be thrown in - I calculated one time it really costs about $1/Mile to drive one's car - had twenty years of bills for the same vehicle as basis for this calculation - I still have the baby and she runs like a top cause I've always pampered and taken good care of her. But now I don't find it necessary to go out and vacuum it out once a week, pick up the coffee cups, papers stuff, chewing gum, candy wrappers, and whatever else people invariably left as love offerings I guess. In fact just being me using the buggy she only needs interior cleaning about once a year if that much and never gets littered up ever.
#2 I used to have dry cleaning bills - about $15/Month keeping myself sharp and presentable for the meetings and service - (I know some of you will say I could have re-invented my wardrobe with items that could be thrown in the machine but I never did even tho the idea occurred to me more than once.) Now I have a whole wardrobe section of my closet that never gets used anymore - I wear only cotton jeans and comfy sweatshirts or cotton pullovers - in the summer, same thing - casual wear - shorts, cotton blouses. Plus I no longer have to buy new nylons cause I only wear tennis shoes and cotton socks. It's so nice - so comfortable - and so MUCH cheaper on the retirement income. The Bible Study Class I attend they all do the same - no one dresses up like the WTS stiffs. And the churches I have visited also dress at least semi casual so if I want to come in a pair slacks and nice sweater I don't look a bit out of place. I have forgotten all about the fact dresses were ever invented even.
#3 I have cut my phone bill down to the cheapest rate $10/Month plan cause it now only gets used for emergency reasons. Used to be it cost me from $40 to $60/Mo because so many of the friends wanted to chit chat on my cell phone - I don't miss that time waster or expense AT ALL. And my feelings never ever get hurt about what so and so said or thinks about me - not that I wasted much concern on that in the past but there were always the types that felt it their duty to keep you abreast of all the "latest" poop they had scooped. It's so nice to live in peace and quiet.
#4 I have time - oh my - loads of precious time that I now spend on real Bible Study about subjects that are of REAL concern to myself and not somebody else's idea of what I SHOULD be reading or studying. And now the Bible seems to speak to my mind and heart - instead of my Bible reading seeming like a "duty" for preparation of the meeting parts. AND I sure don't miss having talk assignments to prepare - believe you me. I used to SLAVE over those being a perfectionist by nature. Now I'm just happy go lucky - cruising along - loving life with nary a day I dread getting out of bed - in fact now I get up hours earlier than I used to do cause I have exciting things to study or do - not obligations designed by some character in New York. No more obligatory meetings that had become just routines and were proving less and less stimulating.
#5 And now I don't have a constant load of people popping in on me all hours of the day wanting me to do this or that with them - I actually get what I started out to do done for once on the same day I began the task. And if I'm wanting companionship I can just pop over to my computer and bug you poor people - midnight or any time of the day. You don't mind. I can stay up all night and sleep all day if the mood so strikes (fortunately it doesn't strike often.) I never feel guilty anymore that I'm not helping Sister so and so, or spending ENOUGH time in the field service, or taking care of other people's young un's - I now have time for my OWN grandchildren. And the cost savings of not feeding someone almost every day because that is the gracious thing to do when they come right at meal time - my food budget almost dropped in half. And no more salads, deserts, soups etc. for the letter writing group - and then rounding up the containers months later that you brought the food in. And no more hosting of get togethers either. It's such a relief. Lonely now? Hell no. It's heaven to have peace and quiet in one's life.
I'm sure there are a number of other items I'm forgetting at the moment but most of all I don't feel like I have to walk a tigthrope - I can be me - free to be me. Integrity - that is the greatest blessing of all - I am now "authentic" - I'm genuine - whole-souled and whole hearted. Would that be called "wholesome?" I think that is the blessing - being wholesome and just free to love all and everyone. DF'ing is a blessing - for me.
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60
Who REALLY IS the Faithful and Discreet Slave?
by TimothyT inim 23 and im still a jw.
the jehovahs witnesses claim that god is using their earthly organisation in the last days!
im realy not too sure.
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saltyoldlady
Hi Tim - There is an excellent chapter in Ray Franz' book In Search of Christian Freedom just on this subject. I highly recommend your obtaining a copy and reading it - you will be surprised at the content - presented in a mild, reasonable manner - no "apostate" type bashing at all and great spiritual depth. Since I realize this may be difficult or uncomfortable for you to do at this time maybe I might make a few quick citations of points I highlighted in the material myself -
Might also add I used to consider myself of this class for many decades.
On page 126 - "...since in Scripture all true Christians are shown to be anointed of God." And he uses 2 Corinthians 1:21-22, I John 2:20, Romans 8:8-9, and verses 9-14 of this chapter also - to back this point up. "Of course the Watch Tower Society does not view all Christians as anointed and and divides Christians living today into two classes, a non-anointed class with an earthly hope, and an anointed class with a heavenly hope."
I might add my own scriptural reference in addition to Brother Franz's - that of Ephesians 4:4-6 which reads "One body there is, and one spirit, even as you were called in the one hope to which you were called, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all persons who is over all and through all and in all." I emphasize there is ONE HOPE - not one class of Christians that are better than another or more spiritual or higher in rank - we are one flock under one Shepherd to quote John 10:16. Please, please don't divide the Bible up for yourself saying well that passage doesn't apply to me - I'm not of the anointed "rank" - it is ALL there for you to drink from and be enriched by.
To go back to Franz on the same page 126 it says "Today this slave class is said to be composed of a remnant of 144,000 anointed ones yet alive on the earth.............the overriding concern is to authenticate and enforce - the view that God and Christ deal with people only through an organization, and that today that organization is the one connected with the Watch Tower Society."
"In the book God's Kingdom of a Thousand Years Has Approached on pages 185-186 it pointedly says of Russell's initial study group 'Thirty years later (1874) found a small group of men not associated with the Adventists or affiliated with any of the religious sects of Christendom, studying the Holy Scriptures at Pittsburgh, (Alleghany) Pa. They studied independently so as to avoid looking at the Bible through sectarian spectacles."............Back to Franz "Such a course today would be denounced as presumptuous, ineffectual, a rejection of God's channel, contrary to God's historical way of providing understanding of His Word through an organization. Remember the Watchtower's statement:
..........the Bible is an organizational book and belongs to the Christian congregation as an organization, not to individuals, regardless of how sincerely they may believe that they can interpret the Bible. For this reason the Bible cannot be properly understood without Jehovah's visible organization in mind. 10/1/1967 - page 587.
In The Society's official history, Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose (page 17) further says of Russell:
He made no claim of a special revelation from God, but held that it was God's due time for the Bible to be understood; and that, being fully consecrated to the Lord and to His service, he was permitted to understand it.
He clearly believed that the "faithful and discreet slave" first came on the scene in his own day, and he makes crystal clear that he himself had not gone to any "faithful and discreet slave class" for enlightnment. In the April 15, 1904 Watch Tower Russell gives detailed arguments opposing the idea of a "composite steward" or "class" and in favor of a particular individual as the "faithful and wise servant." Many in those days viewed Russell as that servant. Yet the fact remains Russell did not turn to any earthly organization. He acted independently on his own.
There is tons more here of great interest that conclusively illustrates the unlikelihood of Jesus Christ ever appointing the organization in the years 1918/1919 as His "chosen" channel or "faithful slave." But to bring it up to date the perceptioin that the food you receive in the WT magazines comes from the "slave class" is almost totally erroneous. Less than 1% of the contributions come from the remaining remnant - the great bulk comes from the great crowd. And the GB is not even likely to survey or pass on the content today - the great bulk of the writing and even the supervision of the Writing Committee has often been in the hands of the great crowd as it was in the days of Ray Franz even though he himself was a partaker of the emblems. And he points out that even if and when an article comes from the slave class it is not given any preference on that basis and not infrequently it is turned over to one of the great crowd for rewriting, editing, etc. And I myself know this also from what I have experienced and from those who know several on the Writing Committee in person.
I think particularly perceptive here are his comments on page 163 under the heading Masking Over Reality - For What Purpose?
"What then does the fictional teaching about a worldwide administrative and spiritual-food-supplying slave "class" accomplish? It provides a prime basis on which the organization's authority rests, by which a small group of men, whose number represents only one-seventh of one percent of the 8,800 "anointed," (numbers would be even worse today) assumes the right to determine not only what all the "anointed," but in fact all Witnesses, will read, study, believe and practice. By its stress on a "class" it also serves to robe the real authority structure with a shroud of anonymity, giving the appearancwe of a wide diversity of membership and globality that is 'not of whole cloth,' simply not true. This fictional concept enables the real authority structure - the dozen (now 8 I believe) or so members of the Governing Body - to ask for almost total obedience to their own directives, without appearing as arrogant or self-serving. "..........."As "the slave class" that authority source takes on a certain vagueness, an amorphous quality and an extensiveness belonging to an essentially faceless aggregation that is not definable or identifiable in any real sense for the average member. The euphemistic use of the expression and surprisingly, THEIR OWN BELIEF IN THE CONCEPT, also enables the Governing Body members to publish statements calling for almost total submission to their decisions without being troubled personally by a sense of arrogance."
There is so so much more of value here to say but knowing it is probably as difficult for you to sit and read this volume of material as it is for me to type it out let me conclude with one key point he makes on page 165 - "The body of Christ" to which "class" all anointed Christians belong, is a spiritual body, its members not identified by earthly organizational membership."
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Knock-knock joke
by parakeet inthere was a knock on the door this morning.
i opened it to find a young man standing there who said: "i'm a jehovah's witness.".
i said "come in and sit down, what do you want to talk about?".
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saltyoldlady
This is no joke - it was sadly true for some of us. I remember one day when the person was willing to talk and I was so stunned my mind just went blank. I almost blurted out those exact words.
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sd-7's Evening Meal, The 1st Memorial of Freedom from the WT
by sd-7 inin the night that his expulsion from jehovah's witnesses was to be announced, sd-7 took a pop tart, gave thanks to no one, not even kellogg's, broke it, and passed it to himself, saying, "take, eat.
this means my body, which no longer sits in a kingdom hall.
keep chewing this in remembrance of me.
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saltyoldlady
Hey Finally Free - can I come celebrate with you this year? I'll bring some of my homemade fermented horseradish - it's the best!
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What Doctrines or JW Views Did You Not Find Too Believable?
by minimus inthe thought that a loving creator would violently destroy anyone not belonging to the jehovah's witness religion including billions of babies seemed just not right.. the fact that you could recieve some "acceptable" blood components but could not donate those same lifesaving yourself seemed strange.
you could recieve a blood fraction but you couldn't give it.. any others you can think of?
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saltyoldlady
Another view that flabbergasted me was the day the Red Revelation book announced that Abaddon (Apollyon) was Jesus Christ - the day before I had been teaching he was the Devil. Of course I understood the change had to be made to be consistent with the view that the locusts coming out of the pit represented US - but in Christendom I'd been taught they were demons. Maybe instead of the light getting brighter the light bulb just went out!
And another one that used to embarass me was the claim that the two oilive trees were a couple of WTS brothers back in 1918 or that the corpse that lay on the streets dead for three days was the GB in prison and their getting out was the same as resurrection for all the world to see - these personalized interpretations of the Holy Scriptures seemed demeaning to God in my mind.
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Another Armageddon Thread...This Time May be for REAL?!?
by Yan Bibiyan inwith the ensuing unrest in north africa and the middle east, i wonder if some "zealous" brothers and sisters are saying: "this is it!!!"..
didn't armageddon suppose to start in the mideast?
isn't the unrest moving closer and closer to israel?
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saltyoldlady
ColdSteel - I like your courage here. I too think Armageddon is a "for real" item and that it will actually happen - when I do not know. Interpreting Revelation is fraught with many many variations by different groups - I am currently trying to work my way through it to re-establish what I actually believe minus the WTS filters. I am overwhelmed by all the commentaries available on Amazon about the subject - but thank you for your comments. Recently worked thru Timothy McHyde's book Know the Future - currently plowing thru J. Vernon MacGee's commentary loaned me by one of my Bible Study friends, and have Charles Swindoll sitting in the wings for my next exploration. Previously read Carl Olof Jonnson's view in The Last Days - When? He makes short work of it claiming all the prophecies of Revelation already fulfilled in that first century after Christ. Boy that was a new view for me to consider. But I love his works and am still digesting it.
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What Doctrines or JW Views Did You Not Find Too Believable?
by minimus inthe thought that a loving creator would violently destroy anyone not belonging to the jehovah's witness religion including billions of babies seemed just not right.. the fact that you could recieve some "acceptable" blood components but could not donate those same lifesaving yourself seemed strange.
you could recieve a blood fraction but you couldn't give it.. any others you can think of?
?.
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saltyoldlady
Ditto to so many of the above - remember reasoning with a sister who had been in a long time that if the elders were spirit appointed because their appointments had to be approved by the higher ups in the org than the Pioneers must also be spirit appointed - LOL - I did come to accept the idea that if the brothers qualified for a position per the scriptures then they were spirit appointed but not because the GB "approved" the decision of the local elder body.
But one item that troubled me greatly was the idea that a divorce could be executed only for adultery (not even child molestation or porneia at one time in the 70's and earlier) and then I often saw people in the congregation "admit" they had gone out and deliberately committed adultery just so they could not only get divorced but also so they could re-marry. Somehow that just didn't seem like good logic to me - and yet I saw this repeated oh so many times over the years - even deliberate wife swapping was happening in more than one congregation in my area - and yet the poor sister who had married an emotionally and physically abusive man, perhaps even a confirmed alcoholic or gambler, couldn't walk away from the relationship with dignity - she was required to stay inside the marriage union even though it was destroying her own and the children's lives or she could leave but must remain celibate the rest of their lives. I understood the need to "work" on one's marriage and work diligently but the utter cruelty of such hide-bound rigidity was evident in many a case also. I understood the scriptural principle that healing a marriage was a glorious victory and to be preferred but sheer mindless endurance at the same time seemed anything but sainthood or emotionally healthy to me. Perhaps I am found guilty of fighting against the scriptures themselves here - but in one area it is applied rigidly and yet there is also the scripture that says a man is NOT to marry a divorced woman and that particular item could be glanced over - ignored. Logic again missing - in this second item "loving-kindness" could be applied but in the other it is a firm, rigid, stance that cannot bend under any circumstances.
Seemed to me at times as though the WTS was lacking "common sense" in its applications of scriptural principles and laws.