Thank you Ann - I hadn't realized it was simply a reprint of part of The Finished Mystery - but indeed it is - the little book I have is a condensed pocket size thing obviously meant to be carried around for opportunities in the field maybe?
saltyoldlady
JoinedPosts by saltyoldlady
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5
A little piece of history - the first commentary on Revelation by WTS
by saltyoldlady ini have a small book printed in 1918 by the wtb&ts that gives the revelation of jesus christ according to the sinaitic text.
i understand in recent times they have again made this sinaitic text translation available but minus of course all the interesting notes and comments of this original -.
it has many gems both good and some not so good that would bring a smile to your face but in view of our recent discussions on where did the wts come up with some of its ideas and chronology applications thought i would share an item found on page 81 relative to rev 6:11 - in talking about the white robe being given to them - "by the teachings of the parallel dispensations, which show that as christ was raised from the dead in ad 33 the sleeping saints would be raised 1845 years later in the spring of 1878.
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The Future: the "Quickening" - and not Armageddon
by metatron intake a good look at recent world events:.
violent revolution thruout the middle east - which, after decades of dictatorial stability, may have been triggered by social networking on the internet and cell phones.. all sorts of stories out in the open about ufo encounters, national governments releasing their files on the subject - and a nasa scientist claims hard evidence of et life from a meterorite.. while the braindead media follows charlie sheen's descent, the focardi and rossi experiments in italy get ignored.
scientist edmond storms predicts a "stampead" if this is the final tipping point in favor of 'cold fusion' - a future of cheap, inexhaustable energy.. 'watson' wins some remarkable victories on jeopardy - suggesting solid progress towards artificial intelligence.. wikileaks threatens national governments and scofflaw 'too big to fail' banks.. scientists clone an extinct species, create artificial cellular life, come close to explaining the aging process and create near miracles with stem cells.. when looking at the future, some use the term 'singularity' - but i like the phrase "the quickening" - a relatively sudden burst of technical progress that changes every aspect of modern life and culture.
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saltyoldlady
Dear Metatron - great post. I too am thinking we are at some very climatic times in history and I like your choice of the word "quickening" - I myself have been following the work of Thomas J. Bearden - and John Bedini - free energy is out there and the means to use it is now known.
In the medical field the regrowing of body tissue - even limbs is happening - the means of curing tragic diseases with electromagnetic energy has been demonstrated -
the ability to engineer weather is known and used - sometimes for extremely evil purposes but the knowledge that could be used for good is there.
and the warfare of the future will more likely be scalar interferometry than nuclear in manner - the list is endless of the changes that are out there and most are unaware of the dangers lurking in the shadows beyond all comprehension from past experiences
and even the knowledge of how to go beyond the confines of space and time dimensions is looming - the ability to warp and change them are already present and men are not at all prepared for the horrors this could bring upon them
Buckle up the seat belts is the understatement of the year! But the words and the blind shall see and the deaf shall hear and the lame shall leap are no longer figments of imagination so there is a good side as well as a dark side - we just have to hold on tight til we get thru - Nick Begich is another site I follow.
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A little piece of history - the first commentary on Revelation by WTS
by saltyoldlady ini have a small book printed in 1918 by the wtb&ts that gives the revelation of jesus christ according to the sinaitic text.
i understand in recent times they have again made this sinaitic text translation available but minus of course all the interesting notes and comments of this original -.
it has many gems both good and some not so good that would bring a smile to your face but in view of our recent discussions on where did the wts come up with some of its ideas and chronology applications thought i would share an item found on page 81 relative to rev 6:11 - in talking about the white robe being given to them - "by the teachings of the parallel dispensations, which show that as christ was raised from the dead in ad 33 the sleeping saints would be raised 1845 years later in the spring of 1878.
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saltyoldlady
I have a small book printed in 1918 by the WTB&TS that gives The Revelation of Jesus Christ according to the Sinaitic Text. I understand in recent times they have again made this Sinaitic Text translation available but minus of course all the interesting Notes and Comments of this original -
It has many gems both good and some not so good that would bring a smile to your face but in view of our recent discussions on where did the WTS come up with some of its ideas and chronology applications thought I would share an item found on page 81 relative to Rev 6:11 - in talking about the white robe being given to them - "By the teachings of the parallel dispensations, which show that as Christ was raised from the dead in AD 33 the sleeping saints would be raised 1845 years later in the spring of 1878. .... Luther nailed the proclamation on the church door at Wittenberg, October 31, 1517 which was already one month into the year 1518 by Jewish reckoning. Three hundred and sixty years from the spring of 1518 brings us to the spring of 1878 when we understand that God's promise made to the sleeping saints was fulfilled. They were raised from the dead, and Babylon was cast off. ........ This we have elsewhere shown, marks the date April, 1878."
The reason for the 360 years that was given is the Greek "chronos" used in the scriptures for a little season, meant (to them at least) 360 years.
Wishing I knew of a way to share the whole work with you for your interest and understanding....maybe it is already available out there and I am just not aware of where that may be but calling it to the attention of the research minded of this group and the entertainment of others. I have noted that when they mention the various works on Revelation they have produced they rarely, if ever, include this baby.
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True Christian thiefs?
by punkofnice inwe all know how the jw's bang on about : 'we're true christians!'.
on 2 of the occasions we invited jw's to stay at our home overnight and enjoy hospitality i had items stolen!.
the first was a music collection album that my zealous sil took home with her.. .
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saltyoldlady
Miracle of miracles - since writing the above one of those three just returned two of my DVD's that had been out on loan with him for over a year last evening - and besides that stayed and visited with me til midnight - truly surprised and amazed I am doing well spiritually and happy - of course I believe his main agenda was to plead with me to come back to the WTS but he was gracious about it - not dogmatic - just asking me to rethink my position - and when I told him I am SURE of my own personal decision he did tell me I am stubborn - very true that is - I admit it. But it was amazing to me he was able to admit not all was perfect in the current WT environment and he was also sure Jehovah not happy with the org at the moment - he just thought I should extend more mercy and grace to them for their errors. Of course what he classes as "tiny" errors are big to me - a difference in vantage point. But it was nice to renew an old friendship I much treasured over the years and a major surprise because I have often gone to Jehovah in prayer about the sadness of losing those friends and now He enabled one of them to relax on the "shunning" order - to think for himself.
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The Gentile Times Reconsidered
by Spade indisproving the date 1914 as a significant year in bible prophecy is of great importance to some (e.g.
carl o. jonsson).
along with the meticulous details of bible and secular chronology, broadening one's horizons when assessing exactly what this date represents when compared against the 6000 years of human history likewise has merit.
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saltyoldlady
Leolaia and all the others that answered my query about the exodus of Jeremiah 52:30 - thank you for all the marvelous research - I am learning much from these posts on this line and even though you are experiencing frustration with Spade I am grateful for your persistence and patience. Just wanted you to know all your efforts are not falling to the wayside as so much wasted breath - they are being appreciated on this end of the sphere. Thank you again - and I am very much impressed with the caliber of responses plus delighting in the touches of humor too that are like seasoning to the serious fare.
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Where did 607 come from?
by MrFreeze inokay so we've obviously established on this board that 607 is not the correct date that babylon destroyed jerusalem.
even before 1914 came around, the bible students still thought 1914 would be a pivital date.
the only way they can gain that info is from the 7 times or w/e.
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saltyoldlady
Oh - and something more I forgot to add here - another reason for Russell to come up with 1874 - he figured - the figuring actually borrowed from others - that the beginning of Daniel's 1260 days was 539 AD - double for 539 BC end of Babylon and 539 AD became the beginning of a new Babylon - just the reverse - he linked the Papacy with the idea of Babylon the Great - the whore of Revelation prophecy - when the Papacy took over temporal rulership of Kings - haven't locked down the history on that one since it seemed so outlandish to me I never bothered - but he had some basis - something to do with the Ostrogoths as I remember - and thus in 1799 - 1260 years later with the abolishment of the Pope by Napoleon fulfilled their idea of casting Babylon the Great down. Then add 30 more years for the 1290 days and we get to 1829 - thought to be about the start of Br Miller's work proclaiming the end in 1843/1844 - and then add in another 45 days one arrives at the 1335 days being completed in 1874 right in time for Russell's grand insight and the roving about making the true knowledge abundant.
I would say his ideas of the 1335 days actually better than the current Daniel Book of the WTS handles them - all grand speculations - and that is the trouble one gets into speculating I remind myself. But for Russell this was one more thread of conviction for him that 1874 the great beginning of Jehovah's 7th Day. Recommend reading Carl Olof Jonnson's book on End of Gentile Times - he does ever so much better a job of handling these historical developments tho he ends up being a Preterist and I can't go that route myself.
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The Gentile Times Reconsidered
by Spade indisproving the date 1914 as a significant year in bible prophecy is of great importance to some (e.g.
carl o. jonsson).
along with the meticulous details of bible and secular chronology, broadening one's horizons when assessing exactly what this date represents when compared against the 6000 years of human history likewise has merit.
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saltyoldlady
Am totally out of my league here but one thing that has always bugged me and that I have seen ignored here too - is the land did not become "totally" empty until Neb's 23rd year - which must be 582 (not 586) so there is not a real sabbath for the land until that happens - yes Judah went off into exile per the scriptures in 586 BC but the emptying of the land did not occur for another five years - Jeremiah 52:30 - so all the stuff about a 70 year sabbath cannot work even if one wanted to say it began in 607 - he would have to begin it in 602 BC and have the exodus from Babylon occur in 532 BC instead. "For in the 23rd year of Nebuchadrezzar, Nebuzaradan the chief of the bodyguard took Jews into exile - seven hundred and thirty two souls. Maybe I am thick of skull and have missed something along the way."
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Where did 607 come from?
by MrFreeze inokay so we've obviously established on this board that 607 is not the correct date that babylon destroyed jerusalem.
even before 1914 came around, the bible students still thought 1914 would be a pivital date.
the only way they can gain that info is from the 7 times or w/e.
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saltyoldlady
Might as well add my tiny smattering of WTS history to this - Br Miller figured 677 BC was the date to start the 2520 years from because of the Jews being conquered by Esarhaddon, and the taking of Manasseh captive to Babylon - so he arrived at his speculation of 1843 for Christ's return. Then when that proved disappointing they moved the dates to 676 BC - 1844 AD. That date didn't work out either. Then some more Bible speculators came around (I'm also guilty of falling into this category but it's fun) and they figured the 1844 date was wrong because it represented a "double" for Christ's birth, and the real date should have been 30 years later - 1874.75 as that would represent his time of baptism. And 3 and 1/2 years later would represent his sacrifice - 1878.25 - and of course that was also used as proof of the elevated stand of the WT foundation - the beginning of its publication being germinated on May 29th expose of Barbour's mistaken views about significance of ransom sacrifice that Russell published in the Congregationalist News. This just happened to coincide with the day of Pentecost for that year I guess so this was supposed to be as significant as Peter's announcement a couple thousand years earlier - not quite right obviously but it worked to substantiate their own elevated views of what they thought they were about. Then they carried it a bit further and added 3 1/2 more years on top of that date to signify the end of the heavenly calling - 1881 as I remember as being a "double" for the time of Cornelius - the first Gentile convert to be called. And they went a bit further and added 37 years to the 1877/78 date and reached 1914/1915 era as representing the "double" for destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD (37 years after Christ's death). So they were convinced that the Great Day of Jehovah's Judgement would be in 1914. When I use the terms double here I am not referring to the old traditional Israel's double concept though that is what got this idea ringing in their craniums I suspect.
The other fun part of the 1874 date for Russell was that he calculated this was the end of the 6,000 years and the beginning of the 7th Day since he started time in 4126. 6,000 minus 4126 gives you 1874 in the old fashioned days of straight out arithmetic (not messing with the zero year at that time). So Russell was "doubly" (pun intended) convinced he had it right. Two important indicators, both wrong unfortunately. Russell wasn't the only one thinking the 6,000 years ended around that time because that famous Mason (can't draw out his name for the life of me right now but he wrote Dogma and Morals) also felt 1870 was the date - he started the time in 4130 - and Russell was an ardent Mason at that time - so aware of this also. This was the Mason's reason for publishing Dogma and Morals at that time.
To continue on the old Israel Double concept which should probably be a different thread was part of the basis for believing 1918 would be the time for Jehovah's approval or selection of his channel or organization - the faithful slave as it would double the birthdate of Isaac (wrong again of course) - and here comes another really hilarious one but it was a third proof for Russell for his erroneous convictions - If the double for Isaac's birth was 1918/1919 then 40 years subtracted from that would double his age 40 because everything done in reverse in the double concept like a mirror - and this would be the date Isaac was figuratively sacrificed which pictured Christ's sacrifice so 1878/1879 just HAD to be the date chosen by God for the start of the WT publication. Sad part of all this is Isaac was more likely sacrificed in a figurative way at age 37 than age 40 but oh well - details, details - what's a few years one way or another. LOL. And then of course the double for Isaac's birth doesn't really work out to be 1918 at all because they didn't even have their chronology straight. Errors on top of errors in this field. Like a minefield to even walk through it these days.
Back to the 607 thing - the Jewish people today actually believe in the 2520 day concept and figure their period from 604/603 to 1917 - adding in the zero year. They think Nebuchadnezzar marched thru Jerusalem in 604 BC taking some of the noble youth off to Babylon at that time together with some of the valuables from the Temple. And they believe this establishes the capture of Jerusalem via General Allenby in 1917 as "divinely ordained" - so even the Jewish nation plays with this one! Who am I to pass judgement on these things but they are fascinating to me.
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Jehovah's Witnesses Are NOT Under Mind Control
by PublishingCult inhow would you respond to the assertion that 7.2 million members of the jehovah's witness religion are not under any sort of mind control?.
the argument being that every one is responsible for their own actions and cannot blame the indoctrinator for what he says and does.
how could they possibly be under mind control?.
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saltyoldlady
Darth Frosty - You are right on! I used to get "so tired" of the constant judgmental questions - it is not genuine heartfelt love that motivates this kind of conversation - it is hollow and empty.
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"Who else are we to go away to?"
by simon17 into the intellectually honest witness, it seems like it often comes down to this principle.
"fine, if the witnesses aren't the truth, then show me the better answer and i'll consider it.
" and how do you deal with that?
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saltyoldlady
Dear Simon17 - I will indeed pray for you right now - but I have no magical powers - I can't make ice cubes appear on a hot summer's day. Nor do I have a suggestion as to what group to attend. I guess part of what I was trying to say is God gives us a choice as to where to go for "fellowship" but He can be found in many places - the WTS does not have an exclusive domain on Him. But please know that I care and I'm sure many others here that are reading your posts care about you and we will be praying for the lifting up of your spirits. It's never fun to be in a "difficult place" or down in heart and spirit.