The 2874 stuff comes from the idea that 6,000 years of human history ended in 1874 and that they were now in the great millenium - the thousand year reign of Christ due to end 2874. They started history in 4126 BC in those days - subtract it from 6,000 and you arrive at the date of 1874 AD. It would have to be an OLD WT to find this date but it is out there. This material is covered in detail in the old Study Volume of Russell called The Time Is At Hand tho I think they used the date 1873 in that one.
saltyoldlady
JoinedPosts by saltyoldlady
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August 1, 1927 TIME Magazine article: Religion: Judge Rutherford
by AndersonsInfo inread the complete two-page article at: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,730814,00.html#ixzz1fxkbec46.
"through the gracious providence of jehovah," the voice of judge joseph frederick rutherford, president, the international bible students' association, boomed from toronto last week to pass out from 53 separate radio broadcasting stations.
the "hookup" was the widest in radio history and was the result of a goading which judge rutherford several weeks ago drove at president merlin hall aylesworth of national broadcasting co.. it was at a hearing of the federal radio commission in washington.
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Yes I'm serious
by dearone inhello, i haven't posted for some time but am alway here.
i hope that i can get some help with may talk and yes as the title says i am serious.
i just don't have the energy to do all the research.
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saltyoldlady
Sd 7 - You do write magnificent talks but I think the tongue in cheek was totally missed by Dear One. I loved it! It was hilarious and a masterpiece. The fact that Dear One didn't see through it made it even funnier.
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Discussion involving my Dad & other long timers - Mood is definately different
by Doubting Bro ini've seen several posts relating to the mood among longtime jws here recently.
i thought i would add to that collection and recount a discussion i recently had with my dad and a small group of folks about his age.
quick background on the group:.
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saltyoldlady
As one old timer that did escape - a year ago (a 1935' brat) yes indeed the atmosphere and feeling in the congregations has been changing and yes - they are getting more and more apathetic - more discouraged - more Zombie like - losing the eagerness for the field service - even to the point of downplaying the house to house and now doing bus stop to bus stop or parking lots, parks and malls (because people no longer answer the doors at home). And neither do people have an interest in discussing religion like I remember from the early 60's - so even the populace has itself changed - putting less faith in there being a loving caring God in charge of things -
My circle of old-timer friends (Alzheimer friends - LOL) discussed these observations constantly - all of them were dismayed with what they saw - the deterioration. I just happened to be the first of my little group to take the move out thanks to exposing myself to so-called "Apostate" literature - in time they will also. In fact I had a visit Saturday eve from one (in spite of the fact I am considered "apostate") and he wanted to know what the last year had been like for me - couldn't believe it has actually been good and even commented over and over at how good I was looking - I finally replied "Look I have a mirror buddy - I can see that I am indeed a prune face these days" and he replied "no I know that - LOL - but you seem so much more happy and there is an inner peace that radiates from you now and you just look more healthy"
He is still mesmerized by the 1914 teaching and refuses to give that up so he's not breaking YET but I see chinks beginning.......he intended only to visit for a half hour but stayed for five hours and when he goes back and tells the others I didn't drop dead like Ananias and Sapphira - and yes I still have Bibles all over the place and still study the good Book diligently and haven't lost my love for God - well who knows might happen. It just takes a few penquins to get the march out started
Sociologically I believe the WTS has made some major mistakes in recent years - one not having a leader to identify with - just a committee of men - no magnetism exhibited by a group of men and no one person to point the finger at either or blame - of course I realize this should have been more like the days of the early apostles but for some reason it hasn't come across that way at all - lack of Holy Spirit behind them? Or is the reason the early disciples were transparent - they wrote material without having to go through a censoring board? How many of us know the individual thoughts and leanings of members of the GB but we do know the leanings of Peter, John, Paul, James, etc. There was leadership in the early days of the apostles but somehow now it just doesn't feel like there IS leadership even though changes are happening.
And then another sociological mistake I think was the abandoning of the Book Study Group - the small cells of believers that became more intimately bound together. That was one area of great strength and it was hard to believe they eliminated that. That is where the cohesion and support came for individuals. Of course I left soon after so don't actually know how that has worked out. I do know the home bible study idea has taken off with only a few in the local area - most are just relieved to have one less meeting to attend and that is the end of it.
Even disfellowshipping is not ardently supported - I notice as time progresses more and more of the local congregation have begun to greet me in public and even to visit with me so in my case at least the shunning thing has not been as terrible as expected. Wish that were the case of some of the others of you who have gone through so much.
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Seems the Watchtower is becoming more pushier / cult-ier...
by garyneal indid anyone have to endure the wt study today at the kh?
i did and boy it was a doozy.
saying things like "christendom deserved destruction for misleading people spiritually...." talking about false prophets, etc... the irony of all of this is that their judgements on christendom apply to them.
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saltyoldlady
Black Sheep - You are just too precious! I loved your last paragraph - almost wished I was back in so I could try pulling this off - it would be so much fun.
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A little piece of history - the first commentary on Revelation by WTS
by saltyoldlady ini have a small book printed in 1918 by the wtb&ts that gives the revelation of jesus christ according to the sinaitic text.
i understand in recent times they have again made this sinaitic text translation available but minus of course all the interesting notes and comments of this original -.
it has many gems both good and some not so good that would bring a smile to your face but in view of our recent discussions on where did the wts come up with some of its ideas and chronology applications thought i would share an item found on page 81 relative to rev 6:11 - in talking about the white robe being given to them - "by the teachings of the parallel dispensations, which show that as christ was raised from the dead in ad 33 the sleeping saints would be raised 1845 years later in the spring of 1878.
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saltyoldlady
Thank you Ann - I hadn't realized it was simply a reprint of part of The Finished Mystery - but indeed it is - the little book I have is a condensed pocket size thing obviously meant to be carried around for opportunities in the field maybe?
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The Future: the "Quickening" - and not Armageddon
by metatron intake a good look at recent world events:.
violent revolution thruout the middle east - which, after decades of dictatorial stability, may have been triggered by social networking on the internet and cell phones.. all sorts of stories out in the open about ufo encounters, national governments releasing their files on the subject - and a nasa scientist claims hard evidence of et life from a meterorite.. while the braindead media follows charlie sheen's descent, the focardi and rossi experiments in italy get ignored.
scientist edmond storms predicts a "stampead" if this is the final tipping point in favor of 'cold fusion' - a future of cheap, inexhaustable energy.. 'watson' wins some remarkable victories on jeopardy - suggesting solid progress towards artificial intelligence.. wikileaks threatens national governments and scofflaw 'too big to fail' banks.. scientists clone an extinct species, create artificial cellular life, come close to explaining the aging process and create near miracles with stem cells.. when looking at the future, some use the term 'singularity' - but i like the phrase "the quickening" - a relatively sudden burst of technical progress that changes every aspect of modern life and culture.
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saltyoldlady
Dear Metatron - great post. I too am thinking we are at some very climatic times in history and I like your choice of the word "quickening" - I myself have been following the work of Thomas J. Bearden - and John Bedini - free energy is out there and the means to use it is now known.
In the medical field the regrowing of body tissue - even limbs is happening - the means of curing tragic diseases with electromagnetic energy has been demonstrated -
the ability to engineer weather is known and used - sometimes for extremely evil purposes but the knowledge that could be used for good is there.
and the warfare of the future will more likely be scalar interferometry than nuclear in manner - the list is endless of the changes that are out there and most are unaware of the dangers lurking in the shadows beyond all comprehension from past experiences
and even the knowledge of how to go beyond the confines of space and time dimensions is looming - the ability to warp and change them are already present and men are not at all prepared for the horrors this could bring upon them
Buckle up the seat belts is the understatement of the year! But the words and the blind shall see and the deaf shall hear and the lame shall leap are no longer figments of imagination so there is a good side as well as a dark side - we just have to hold on tight til we get thru - Nick Begich is another site I follow.
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A little piece of history - the first commentary on Revelation by WTS
by saltyoldlady ini have a small book printed in 1918 by the wtb&ts that gives the revelation of jesus christ according to the sinaitic text.
i understand in recent times they have again made this sinaitic text translation available but minus of course all the interesting notes and comments of this original -.
it has many gems both good and some not so good that would bring a smile to your face but in view of our recent discussions on where did the wts come up with some of its ideas and chronology applications thought i would share an item found on page 81 relative to rev 6:11 - in talking about the white robe being given to them - "by the teachings of the parallel dispensations, which show that as christ was raised from the dead in ad 33 the sleeping saints would be raised 1845 years later in the spring of 1878.
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saltyoldlady
I have a small book printed in 1918 by the WTB&TS that gives The Revelation of Jesus Christ according to the Sinaitic Text. I understand in recent times they have again made this Sinaitic Text translation available but minus of course all the interesting Notes and Comments of this original -
It has many gems both good and some not so good that would bring a smile to your face but in view of our recent discussions on where did the WTS come up with some of its ideas and chronology applications thought I would share an item found on page 81 relative to Rev 6:11 - in talking about the white robe being given to them - "By the teachings of the parallel dispensations, which show that as Christ was raised from the dead in AD 33 the sleeping saints would be raised 1845 years later in the spring of 1878. .... Luther nailed the proclamation on the church door at Wittenberg, October 31, 1517 which was already one month into the year 1518 by Jewish reckoning. Three hundred and sixty years from the spring of 1518 brings us to the spring of 1878 when we understand that God's promise made to the sleeping saints was fulfilled. They were raised from the dead, and Babylon was cast off. ........ This we have elsewhere shown, marks the date April, 1878."
The reason for the 360 years that was given is the Greek "chronos" used in the scriptures for a little season, meant (to them at least) 360 years.
Wishing I knew of a way to share the whole work with you for your interest and understanding....maybe it is already available out there and I am just not aware of where that may be but calling it to the attention of the research minded of this group and the entertainment of others. I have noted that when they mention the various works on Revelation they have produced they rarely, if ever, include this baby.
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True Christian thiefs?
by punkofnice inwe all know how the jw's bang on about : 'we're true christians!'.
on 2 of the occasions we invited jw's to stay at our home overnight and enjoy hospitality i had items stolen!.
the first was a music collection album that my zealous sil took home with her.. .
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saltyoldlady
Miracle of miracles - since writing the above one of those three just returned two of my DVD's that had been out on loan with him for over a year last evening - and besides that stayed and visited with me til midnight - truly surprised and amazed I am doing well spiritually and happy - of course I believe his main agenda was to plead with me to come back to the WTS but he was gracious about it - not dogmatic - just asking me to rethink my position - and when I told him I am SURE of my own personal decision he did tell me I am stubborn - very true that is - I admit it. But it was amazing to me he was able to admit not all was perfect in the current WT environment and he was also sure Jehovah not happy with the org at the moment - he just thought I should extend more mercy and grace to them for their errors. Of course what he classes as "tiny" errors are big to me - a difference in vantage point. But it was nice to renew an old friendship I much treasured over the years and a major surprise because I have often gone to Jehovah in prayer about the sadness of losing those friends and now He enabled one of them to relax on the "shunning" order - to think for himself.
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The Gentile Times Reconsidered
by Spade indisproving the date 1914 as a significant year in bible prophecy is of great importance to some (e.g.
carl o. jonsson).
along with the meticulous details of bible and secular chronology, broadening one's horizons when assessing exactly what this date represents when compared against the 6000 years of human history likewise has merit.
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saltyoldlady
Leolaia and all the others that answered my query about the exodus of Jeremiah 52:30 - thank you for all the marvelous research - I am learning much from these posts on this line and even though you are experiencing frustration with Spade I am grateful for your persistence and patience. Just wanted you to know all your efforts are not falling to the wayside as so much wasted breath - they are being appreciated on this end of the sphere. Thank you again - and I am very much impressed with the caliber of responses plus delighting in the touches of humor too that are like seasoning to the serious fare.
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Where did 607 come from?
by MrFreeze inokay so we've obviously established on this board that 607 is not the correct date that babylon destroyed jerusalem.
even before 1914 came around, the bible students still thought 1914 would be a pivital date.
the only way they can gain that info is from the 7 times or w/e.
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saltyoldlady
Oh - and something more I forgot to add here - another reason for Russell to come up with 1874 - he figured - the figuring actually borrowed from others - that the beginning of Daniel's 1260 days was 539 AD - double for 539 BC end of Babylon and 539 AD became the beginning of a new Babylon - just the reverse - he linked the Papacy with the idea of Babylon the Great - the whore of Revelation prophecy - when the Papacy took over temporal rulership of Kings - haven't locked down the history on that one since it seemed so outlandish to me I never bothered - but he had some basis - something to do with the Ostrogoths as I remember - and thus in 1799 - 1260 years later with the abolishment of the Pope by Napoleon fulfilled their idea of casting Babylon the Great down. Then add 30 more years for the 1290 days and we get to 1829 - thought to be about the start of Br Miller's work proclaiming the end in 1843/1844 - and then add in another 45 days one arrives at the 1335 days being completed in 1874 right in time for Russell's grand insight and the roving about making the true knowledge abundant.
I would say his ideas of the 1335 days actually better than the current Daniel Book of the WTS handles them - all grand speculations - and that is the trouble one gets into speculating I remind myself. But for Russell this was one more thread of conviction for him that 1874 the great beginning of Jehovah's 7th Day. Recommend reading Carl Olof Jonnson's book on End of Gentile Times - he does ever so much better a job of handling these historical developments tho he ends up being a Preterist and I can't go that route myself.