To Headspinning - great post! I do think the need for "group" activity is one that has been the hardest for me to overcome. The longing to be "part" of something is still hanging on with me. We are a very divergent group however - hardly what one might describe as a place of security if one happens on some of the more bitter among us - but I see much of the same humor and name-calling sport amongst my teenage grandchildren and am learning to mellow out - not get so quickly offended.
saltyoldlady
JoinedPosts by saltyoldlady
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Do you get hassled for posting here frequently?
by sabastious inmost people in my life that know how frequent i post on this forum find it very troubling.
i have often been accused of "not being able to let go.
" i don't agree that i post here because i'm not willing to let go, i think i post here because i think this place helps other people and i want to be part of it.
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Have you ever felt an earthquake?
by Iamallcool inpersonally, i have never felt an earthquake in my life.
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saltyoldlady
Earthquakes - are a regular feature of living in Seattle - first one I remember was '49 - we ran outside (not a smart thing to do they say but it's instinct to get out of the building one is in - and that instinct is strong) then we stood huddled together with the next door neighbor as we watched the ground swell like a tidal wave under our feet going from north to south and I happened to look out in the Puget Sound and sure enough there was a huge wave - rolling motion that just kept coming and coming - my fear at that moment was when will the earth open and swallow me up - age 14! We must have rolled for several seconds - up and then back down - and then up - and then back down - seemed like an eternity at the time.
In '65 we had another duzer - but this time I was in the front yard - already outside working on the flower beds - my dog gave it a comic aspect as he ran around to the back of the house barking like crazy to tell whomever it was to quit shaking things up - he never succeeded at finding the source but am sure he thought his barking stint was most effective as it did stop after enough commands from him
Then we had some little ones - in 94 and 95 - the first in 94 I was hanging up clothes when I noticed all six of my kitties sitting around me in a semi circle - had time to think now this is strange behavior - have never seen them do this before - and then it began - swaying, clinking and clanking the lamps, china, glassware, books falling off shelves. We survived. The next in 95 was at the Kingdom Hall - in the Theocratic Service Meeting - people began to run for the door and I found myself barking orders to them to stay put in their seats - really strange behavior for meek mild little me - but even the elders obeyed me. LOL. And that time I really had no fear - maybe I thought we were all safe inside Jehovah's Ark - but I also knew we had telephone and electric wiring poles outside adjacent to the parking lot that could be major danger sources - wooden poles planted in earth topple rather easily and quickly. This one didn't last so long and was milder than those first two I described which were up in the 6 and 7 range as I recall.
Then in 2001 we got a real one - maybe by now I have become ho hum about them because I refused to get excited or try evacuating the store - was shopping for sweet pea seeds with my neighbor and I wasn't about to be deterred from my project. She took hold of my sleeve and pulled me out - I had the seed packet in my hand and kept insisting I had to pay for them - of course there were no clerks at the register - they had already left - shelves of store goods were crashing around us and it finally hit home with me maybe we would be better outside. So I joined the little huddle of people out in the parking lot still clutching my precious seeds - and then remarked there is something wrong with me - I am dizzy - they howled with laughter at me as they informed me the earthquake was still going on - the ground felt like we were standing on a pile of jello pudding - we were in the Puyallup Valley River Basin where the soil is mainly made up of river silt. Has a tendency to reverberate and vibrate to the rumbling. This one was a looong one - seemed like 15 minutes to me but think it was actually only a couple minutes long. And yes I did pay for those seeds but it took me forever to convince the checkout clerk it was safe to return to her spot and take care of me. And my neighbor never quit teasing me about what a numbskull I am -
They say Seattle had a 9.0 on Jan 26th of 1700 whose epicenter was shallow and right under the current sports arena - and that we are due for another in a 300 to 500 year time range. The 300 years time range has expired so it's a bit like waiting for Armageddon.............any day now plus or minus a couple hundred years.
Birkman who has been very successful at predicting earthquakes in the past had some interesting comments on the website extinctionprotocol:2012 and beyond and I've found their free emails of current earthquakes, volcano's, strange happenings in weather, solar flares, massive fish kills, whale beachings, birds dropping out of the sky dead, etc. most fascinating - they don't feed you with a lot of religious garbage like the 2012 feature might indicate but keep it pretty scientific. It's a paradise for any doomsday afficiando.
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I have to tell you
by mouthy inthere are some wonderful folks reading this site.. so many wonderful jws( doubters ...but reading).
also there are folks on here who know it is a cult... one of them just called me...( wont say who ,as is fading).. but encouraged me so very much,thank you thank you thankyou.
i always go back to my post & i seem .
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saltyoldlady
Beautifully put, Mouthy - Beautifully put. It is the exact truth of the situation.
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POLL/SURVEY- Why Did You Leave The Organization of JW's?
by PublishingCult inwhy did you leave the organization of jehovah's witnesses, and/or why are you contemplating leaving the organization of jehovah's witnesses?.
i've tried to boil it down to the most likely answers based on all the reasons i have heard over the years from xjw's.
a. because the watchtower bible & tract society does not have the truth.. b. because i had a personality conflict with other members of the organization.. c. because i discovered that the wtbts was not being honest or forthcoming about its history.. d. because serving jehovah was too difficult and i just wanted to be worldly and do wicked things.. e. because the governing body of jehovah's witnesses have proved to be false prophets.. f. because i found just cause to disagree with erroneous jw teachings.. g. because the governing body and/or elders were hypocritical.
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saltyoldlady
Outlaw - where do you dig up these pictures? That is one aweful eyeful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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POLL/SURVEY- Why Did You Leave The Organization of JW's?
by PublishingCult inwhy did you leave the organization of jehovah's witnesses, and/or why are you contemplating leaving the organization of jehovah's witnesses?.
i've tried to boil it down to the most likely answers based on all the reasons i have heard over the years from xjw's.
a. because the watchtower bible & tract society does not have the truth.. b. because i had a personality conflict with other members of the organization.. c. because i discovered that the wtbts was not being honest or forthcoming about its history.. d. because serving jehovah was too difficult and i just wanted to be worldly and do wicked things.. e. because the governing body of jehovah's witnesses have proved to be false prophets.. f. because i found just cause to disagree with erroneous jw teachings.. g. because the governing body and/or elders were hypocritical.
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saltyoldlady
Because I fell short on love - love for the WTS - just realized that fits my acronym for my name too - SOL - Short On Love or another way to put it - So Out of Love with the WTS - So Out of Luck - sorry guys, I just couldn't stop.
But nearly all of the reasons applied except for wanting to be wicked and being tired of trying. My defection began with the chronology issue issue but grew bigger and bigger - in fact mushroomed with disagreements on basic doctrines like Christ's ransom sacrifice not being available for all and the withholding of the emblems from the Great Crowd.
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Book of Mormon vs The Bible, which one should I choose?
by cyberjesus in2 jdubs were at my door yesterday... so one of the questions i asked them and now i ask you is this.. why should i believe the bible is the gods word?
if i put on the table the book of mormon and the bible side by side what will be the criteria to decide which one is gods word?.
this is what the book of mormon says in 2 nephi 33:1.
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saltyoldlady
I could never get past the fact that the angel was called Moron with an i at the end. (I am the Great Moron, I am, I am.) Forgive my irreverence, the evil devil got into me.
The other day I read a quote by George Washington Carver that said "Love anything enough and it will speak to you." The more I read the Bible the more I desire to read it and the more I come to love it. It DOES speak to me - but this is a subjective thing impossible to pass on to anyone else. All one can do is urge them to try it.
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Should I contact the Society and tell them I want out?
by sinis inas of late i have been thinking about this.
my sig other and i have successfully faded, and the last kh i attended (cards were moved to) was like 8+ years ago.
i really do not care either way, however i have been asking myself as of late if i should.
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saltyoldlady
I know what you mean about wanting a clean sweep - closure - I too wanted that so I did send them a letter listing my desire to separate myself from the WTS and my reasons for so doing. It felt good to take that action - and like I was honoring Jehovah in so doing. It is an excellent opportunity to "witness" to those who have been misled - at least the elders who will read your letter and who knows what effect it may have that will be beneficial for them. Every letter they get of this nature has to have some effect - be sure of that. It will rankle in their minds - maybe for many years but some may eventually investigate.
To give you an example - many years before an older brother of the anointed suggested I should read Ray Franz book. He was still inside the organization at that time and may still be - I do not know. I was shocked and wouldn't consider it and considered he was in terrible danger doing what he had done. But the day came years later I did finally read one of the books Ray Franz had written and that was all it took. So I made it a point to give the brothers a list of the books they might read to understand my position knowing some day they could possibly look one of them up. Turns out the PO that came to visit me for the "exit" interview confessed he had started to read Ray Franz first book - Crisis of Conscience many years before but not finished it. That night they were here I explained the material about the Malawi Party Card to them and they didn't believe I could be right. Someday I am sure they will check it out and will be surprised.
Of course it is not fun to have old friends shun you when you meet them out in public but I have survived and only feel saddened now that they feel constrained so by the organization to carry out that behavior. One dear friend did recently come to visit me after a whole year had gone by and apologized for taking part in that action. That was a great experience.
In your case - your having been gone so long I do not know what they will endeavor to do. It is possible they may send some local yokel to make a personal call on you and make one final effort to twist your arm. But you can survive that and possibly be an aid to helping those poor souls who do call on you. Just consider them your "Bible Studies" for the moment but try to avert arguments. They never achieve anything good for either side. Make your case concise and simple and then step back and let them know case closed if it appears they are not sincere in trying to understand. In my case they unloaded a lot of their troubles to me that night - admitted things were actually much worse than I even knew about - so it may be Jehovah will use you on that occasion. Just keep your channel of prayer to Him going all the time they are there - it helps greatly.
Also recently one of those elders called at my door in his regular field service ministry - I think unintentionally by the look of total shock and surprise in his face when I answered the door - but we were able to visit personably - his partner didn't feel comfortable - but he did and we parted company with a wishing each other well - another amazing experience. As time goes on I notice some now smile and nod at me in the grocery store instead of "the cold stony look straight ahead and pretend they never saw you" stupidity so that too is an improvement. Wouldn't it be nice if the day came they actually saw fit to stop the shunning business - dream on - I know it is not going to happen - but that doesn't keep me from hope.
What you do needs to be a matter of prayer between you and God. There are pro's and con's either way.
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May 22, 1969 Awake! promises "you will never grow old" - Creative Writing
by Mad Sweeney inthe year is 1969. faithful followers of the watchtower society are gearing up for the imminent end of the system of things just as they had been for the previous ninety years.
a young witness named andrew is trying to decide what to do with his life.
andrew is a smart kid and he has an entire lifetime ahead of him.
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saltyoldlady
So very sad and so very true - I think the ending is perfect just the way you have it. Thank you for sharing this piece.
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April 15th WT - WT Society says " Obeying Us is Same as Obeying God "
by flipper inthis is a non-study article in the witness only version of the april 15th titled " do you discern the evidence of god's guidance ?
" essentially in this article the alleged " faithful slave " is telling witnesses that to be approved to survive armageddon- they will have to recognize the " faithful & discreet slave's " authority in their lives.. notice these direct quotes from pg.
4 , " jesus christ is the assigned leader of the congregation.
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saltyoldlady
Flipper - this post has so struck a chord with me - and Metatron I highlighted that exact same scripture to my son-in-law about a year ago - he's not in the WTS and I think he thought I was "overdoing" it a bit to make that application but I think it bears typing the whole passage out right here -
Starting with verse 3 of 2nd Thessalonians "Let no one seduce you in any manner, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction. He is set in opposition and lifts himself up over everyone who is called "god" or an object of reverence, so that he sits down in the temple of The God, publicly showing himeslef to be a god. Do you not remember that, while I was yet with you, I used to tell you these things?"
While I would not go so far as to say the WTS is The Antichrist being watched for in this passage I would definitely say the WTS has certainly played the role of anti-Christ - taking his name out of many if not most of their songs, downplaying his role in their translation of John 1:1, and addressing all prayers to Jehovah directly, sometimes forgetting to acknowledge they must go thru Christ and request all things in the name of the Lord, Jesus Christ. (Nor am I going on record here as being a Trinitarian - I simply feel they have downgraded Jesus Christ's role and position.)
They define the Temple of God (not as the scriptures do at all) but as "anyplace where true worship" is practised and they limit "true worship" to only that within the confines of the WTS. And with those restrictions in mind they have definitely set themselves in the temple of The God per their own perceptions. And when they say in order to determine whether something is true or not we must inquire of "Jehovah AND his organization" they have linked themselves to the very position of God, Himself, and even specified which God - the great God, Jehovah, by identifying themselves as His witnesses. The idea that He gave them this name as a badge of approval is as bogus as all the rest. That's why I try not to even refer to them as JW's for fear of blaspheming His great name. Are they publicly showing themselves to be a god - I think that can be answered not only in the affirmative - but that is THEIR PURPOSE.
And in addition they have placed themselves in the "mediator's role in place of Christ" - blasphemy indeed - by stating bluntly and directly that all will be destroyed who do not come to God "thru the WTS." This is just as bad as it can get - I remember back in the 80's when the WT came out saying the Great Crowd did not have "righteousness" being very disturbed by just that but that one did get corrected after about two years. But the scriptures in that matter were so obvious it made one wonder if they even read them themselves as they directed us to do. Now they have a WHOPPING LOT to correct to avert divine disfavor.
Their definitions given in Flipper's first post here are humorous to apply to themselves. Per their definitions the "faithful slave" give divine direction. I, at that time, considered the Holy Spirit to have witnessed to my spirit that I was indeed one of God's children, thus I partook. I had as much authority to declare myself a faithful slave as they had so when I wrote them about a matter needing correction - their understanding of biblical chronology - did they accept it? Did they immediately make an effort to apply it? Or did they continue doing things just as they had always done? Did they accept counsel? You know the answers - I did not of course tell them I partook of the emblems because one, I knew that would not make any difference whatsoever, and if I truly was one and they truly were one they would "know the body of Christ" via Jehovah's Holy Spirit. Well they obviously didn't recognize me as "one of them" - LOL. But more to the point, did they care about representing historical truth? Did they care about the fact that the Bible was being misrepresented as being inacurrate because history and prophecy could not be lined up with one another? Did they even comprehend that the Bible itself answered this seeming dilemma - I have to answer NO to all of these questions. I am ashamed it took me so long to see the light. The last question in Flipper's list - did they look to Jehovah AND his organization for guidance - well they looked to his organization for guidance - themselves - that is obvious, not Jehovah, because the two cannot be equated to one another. I consider that equation to be worse, far worse, than equating Jesus to God, Himself, frankly.
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The Three Common Complaints by JWs Against "False Religion"
by sd-7 in1. false doctrines, all taught to keep people in darkness, all done by those claiming to speak for god!.
2. misconduct by the leaders and by the followers with impunity (ie.
child abuse, adultery, etc., etc.)..
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saltyoldlady
Excellent summation for reasons WTS does not qualify as God's Sole Channel or even His Channel period - I myself determined if I were to worship with Spirit and Truth I would have to leave the organization - and you can share with your wife it has indeed worked out to be a better way of being a Christian for me - the fruits of joy, peace and love that seemed so lacking before in my associations at the Kingdom Hall I now find abundant in what the WTS calls Babylon the Great. One doesn't have to dump the good because they leave the bad - I have kept the teachings and there were many - that I came to love as part of the WTS - and so far those in my delightful interdenominational Bible Study group have not passed judgment on me for differences of opinion with them - they embrace me and welcome my participation. So different from the days I had to watch every word I said for fear of causing dissension in the WTS - in my new association outside the WTS it seems nearly impossible to cause dissension because others are trying to understand and learn right along with myself from God's Word and God's Word alone. It is truly a delightful refreshment after nearly 40 years in the "dark."