Posts by DesirousOfChange

23

Two elders are coming to visit at my invitation.

by Wasanelder Once in

the elders have been spreading lies about me to jw friends and they are panicked.

they don't know what to make of it.

i've never given them reason to doubt my faithfulness or to make them think i talk against the organization.

DesirousOfChange

Mr Flipper/PsychParrot -- Dual Personality Disorder?

55

Do your elders care at all?

by Mr. Falcon in

i currently have an elder body who, for the most part, seems utterly complacent and disinterested in actually "shepherding" anything.

i can't tell if they are lazy or just oblivious to their responsiblities of being "teachers".

it seems like they are the last to know anything and always procrastinate on everything.

I don't know of anyone who has had a shepherding call unless they were dying or dead. I really thought that maybe the WTS was not pushing this so much anymore, but then I hear it mentioned by the CO or at the CirAssm. Remember when the CO and elders spent an evening making Shep call during the CO visit. Not any more. I think that was about the only time it got done.

16

DF'd can sit anywhere not just at the back?

by Pubsinger in

just spoke to someone who has recently been df'd and they told me that they can sit anywhere instead of just at the back.. when did they change this?.

or is it just a local quirk?.

i've not heard this one before .

DesirousOfChange

Has there ever been an official rule about where they sit?

Not in all the years I've been in have I been aware of any such rule.

I think sitting in the rear of the hall could be thought of being less intimidating for someone who is DFd.

I've known of some who came in early before meeting started to stake out their seat and evidently didn't mind being ignored.

48

JW ADVANTAGES vs DISADVANTAGES

by DesirousOfChange in

jw
friends

this earlier topic [why do it feel bad about my children leaving jw religion?

] is what causes me to ask this question:.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/208031/1/why-do-i-feel-bad-about-my-children-leaving-the-jw-religion.

DesirousOfChange

The choice between living a lie and losing family, friends and community to live in a world you have been taught to fear.

I am in awe of the courage of those who take this step.

Courage is surely an understatement. Someone who has been in for decades feels like they have nothing else to turn to. It's all they know. If you're a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th generation JDub, surely much/most of your family is also "in". All of your friends are other JDubs. You have built a life revolving around JDub tradition. You have taken a stand on things with all your "worldly" peers at school or work or non-witness family. Maybe you have "recruits" in that respect you for "all that you are" in the Truth.....

Then BAM! Something awakens you.........you start looking at things critically (oh, oh, the WT warns about those who are critical -- it's the first sign)..... you take off the blinders and.........(that's where I am).......

.............well you know the rest.

How long does this period of denial last?

How long before you get over the concern that everything bad happening in your life is divine justice?

23

Being Turned In By Family

by SlipnSlide in

jw
friends

i have read a lot of posts regarding spouses turning the other in to the jw police.

if it happened to me, i don't think that i could forgive my husband if he did this.

i would never do this to any member of my family, especially my husband.

DesirousOfChange

The society tries to devide and conquer. To save yourself you must betray someone else. In this house that will not happen.

GOOD FOR YOU, NUGGET!

10

Ministerial Servant prosecuted for fraud in 2001 is made up to Elder

by James_Slash in

sorry guys, i can't link the full article (as i don't know how) but this is the address.. http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1g1-111236724.html.

this is the news article (only in part as it is now archived) but this guy i know personally and he was made up to an elder a couple of years ago:.

a birmingham technician who went bankrupt after losing almost pounds 100,000 on rash speculations on the stock market has been ordered to do 200 hours' community punishment.

DesirousOfChange

It happens. I know of several JW men who were involved in VERY shady business dealings that bilked their "brothers" out of a lot of money, only to be appointed elders, convention committee men, CoBOE's, the works.

You can find them after every circuit assembly or district convention at the finer restaurants in town socializing with the CO & DO & Bethel guests.

7

OSHA Safety Regulations: Does the WT look the other way?

by Alfred in

i've been on a couple of kh remodels (the last one over 2 years ago)... both remodels took about 2 months to complete... in both cases i pointed out numerous safety hazards and osha violations to the site coordinator (not petty nonsense but actual safety hazards).

just to give a few examples...there were stripped extension cords everywhere, poorly protected temporary wiring, trip hazards, unlabeled cans containing either hazmat or flammable liquid, hazardous liquid spills that were cleaned up with rags and then tossed in the trash, the list goes on and on... i can tell you that it really got out of control (no exageration)... in both cases i was told not to worry about it because we would be done with the remodel fairly soon and jehovah always looks after his people.

what i didn't get is that they would have these 5-10 minute "safety talks" before starting the work day, yet we would be constantly surrounded by safety hazards all day long.. so my question is... have you ever been on a kh new construction or remodel and observed any osha safety violations?

DesirousOfChange

What is OSHA's jurisdiction compared to a local or state building ordinances? Does it depend on the size/scope of the project? The number of workers? Something else?

OSHA actually represents employees in the work force where there is interstate commerce. Since all business is involved in interstate commerce (all business buy products produced outside their own state), OSHA has authority over all business'es employees.

But, since most workers at QuickBuilds or any kind of remodel are volunteers, I doubt OSHA can claim any authority. I'm not sure how that would work with the Bethel workforce. Are they "volunteers" as well?

48

JW ADVANTAGES vs DISADVANTAGES

by DesirousOfChange in

jw
friends

this earlier topic [why do it feel bad about my children leaving jw religion?

] is what causes me to ask this question:.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/208031/1/why-do-i-feel-bad-about-my-children-leaving-the-jw-religion.

DesirousOfChange

This earlier topic [WHY DO IT FEEL BAD ABOUT MY CHILDREN LEAVING JW RELIGION?] is what causes me to ask this question:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/208031/1/Why-do-I-feel-bad-about-my-children-leaving-the-JW-religion

I've had some personal experiences that caused me to doubt the "spirit directed" organizational arrangement [won't go into that here though] and one thing to another led me here. I just lurked a long time, fearful of posting and being outed. Then became brazen enough to post some replies (wow 241). Reading things here have opened my eyes even further to more issues. It's sad that so many people have been "burned". I've witnessed that too, and even experienced it, but not in any significant way at this point. Yet, similar to the poster referenced above, I have to wonder:

DO I AND MY FAMILY GET MORE GOOD FROM BEING JWs THAN THE BAD CONSEQUENCES?

Admit it, at least there is a moral standard among (most of) the Witnesses.

It encourages people to avoid things like smoking, drug use, alcohol abuse, "fornicating" and the risk of things associated with that (both physcial and emotional), dishonesty, and other bad behaviors that can cause one problems in life. Yes, positive peer pressure.

It provides a social network of (mostly) good associates for families, including a place for young people to meet other young people who also have higher than average morals and convictions.

Discouraging young people from getting a better education concerns me, but MANY young people in our area are simply ignoring that. Not the majority, but then I don't really know if the majority should go on to college, but the bright ones are. Including elders' children. Nurses. Teachers. IT. Accounting. Even one lawyer.

And, yes, I have come to conclude that it would be a mistake for anyone to plan for one's future like THE END is right around the corner. Too many previous generations did that, and we know what happened. (NOTHING!) As we know, that's come to be the l-o-n-g-e-s-t corner in human history.So, it's best to buy a house, buy life insurance and contribute to the 401K.

And, yes, there needs to be some changes (thus the ID chosen), and perhaps GB 2.0 will usher some of them in in time..... Hopefully they will come to see that some of the current policies are harmful and/or just wrong. For example, I agree that shunning does more harm than good. The "generation" thing is......well.....needs another change. Everyone who can think is rolling their eyes on this one.

But, all things considered, are there more advantages than disadvantages?

(Behave like your mom always told you: If you can't be nice about it, don't say it. It's OK to disagree, just do it without so much venom. Please.)

Many thanks.

DOC

22

DF Question

by TheLoveDoctor in

if 1 elder definetly knows how i feel of governing body and some of thier doctrine, he knows as i admitted viewing and researching apostate liturate can they still disfellowship me if i refuse to meet?

right now the 1 brother would talk to the body they would need 2 witneses or one more brother to determine if thier should be a jc yet i know and they know it would be obviouse for the need for one, could the just form one and if i refuse to meet could they df me anyway?.

DesirousOfChange

QUESTION FOR THOSE STILL IN SERVING AS ELDERS:

Could the new information on "brazen" conduct come in to play here????

If a person refuses to even meet with the elders, are they displaying brazen disrespect for God's Theocratic arrangement?? Thus perhaps DA themselves from the congregation by their actions?

JUST A THOUGHT...........

35

WARNING: Try Not to Throw Up In Your Mouth

by headisspinning in

jw
friends

okay, so we finally decided that we are moving.

this is the plan we are contemplating:.

attend new congregation for one month (go to all the meeting with wt studied in brilliant colours etc.).

DesirousOfChange

Attend new congregation for one month (go to ALL the meeting with WT studied in brilliant colours etc.)

Request reinstatement

We expect that to be denied

Continue for two more months

Request reinstatement again

IF we are accepted back, attend for one to two months and start the fade.

SIZEMIK SAID: I have followed a number of your threads and have a reasonable idea of your situation.

My first concern is that you may not get the re-instatement your looking for in that time-frame. As you probably know, the D/F BOE will be consulted and this may delay things for you considerably . . . you may have to wait a year, maybe longer. I don't wish to be discouraging, only to inquire if you are prepared for this.

I have to agree with Sizemik. Reinstatement will not likely happen that quickly. [In fact, I'd consider it a miracle if it happens in less than a year.]

You do realize that the ORIGINAL committee is who makes the decision even if you have moved to a different congregation. The new congregation's elders can make a recommendation for your reinstatement to the original committee, but the committee that disfellowshipped you still has the final say. If they choose to take the "hard line" against you based on the issue that you were involved in collusion (planning to put your spouse away and marry another person's spouse), you will be waiting "many months, a year or even longer" for reinstatement. Consider the followng quotes from the (secret) Elders' Book:

SHEPHERD THE FLOCK 2010 -- Page 119

3. The committee should be careful to allow sufficient
time, perhaps many months, a year, or even
longer, for the disfellowshipped person to prove that
his profession of repentance is genuine. (od p. 156j
it-2 p. 771) The committee should be especially cautious
in some cases. For instance, the wrongdoer
may have been deceptive, may have secretly practiced
wrongdoing over a long period of time, or may
have been repeatedly dealt with judicially in the past
for the same or other wrongdoing. Quickly reinstating
such a person may embolden others to commit
serious sin, as they may feel that little or no
discipline will be administered. Where there is evidence
of conspiracy between individuals to put away
their mates and marry each other, considerable time
should elapse for them to prove their repentance and
gain reinstatement.-w83 3/15 p. 29. [emphasis added by me]

SHEPHERDING THE FLOCK 2010 -- Page 120

7. If the disfellowshipped person has moved,
a local judicial committee will hear his request for
reinstatement where he is now attending meetings. 1£
those elders believe he should be reinstated, they will
give the judicial committee of the congregation that
disfellowshipped the person their recommendation.
They should not let the disfellowshipped one know
their recommendation; if the other committee does
not agree, knowing that would only cause him frustration.
The committee should merely tell him that
they must correspond with the elders where he was
disfellowshipped and that he will be informed of the
decision in due course.
8. The local judicial committee should not pressure
the original committee to reinstate the person.
The elders on the original committee may be aware
of important factors not apparent to others, so it
is usually best to respect their judgment. Likewise,
the original committee should carefully consider the
recommendation of the other committee. Sufficient
time may have passed, and the individual may have
made drastic changes that the elders on the original
committee have not observed. They should keep in
mind that the elders making the recommendation
have met the individual and have had opportunity to
observe his conduct.