Posts by AiAi

26

Was Jesus' sacrifice really necessary? Or even a sacrifice at all?

by AiAi in

does it make sense that after adam ate of the fruit god would condemn all of mankind until jesus sacrificed himself?

does 1 perfect person's sin really equal 1 perfect person's sacrifice plus billions of imperfect peoples death and suffering?.

jesus' sacrifice to save mankind really was not a sacrifice at all if he knew he would be raised up after 3 days.. .

AiAi

SBC - That is a real good thread, and very close to my point. I have not fully made up my mind on the bible; people like PSac do make a lot of good points concerning sunjects that im wondering about that keeps me on the fence. But with this subject I still fail too see how jesus dieing for 3 days compensates for everything.

WTWizard -

But, even if one believes that it was necessary, why do we still have to self-sacrifice? If we offer additional sacrifice, we render null and void the "perfect sacrifice, to which nothing ever need be added"

That I also dont understand. Did Jesus' death save us or not? If you owe god $100 and Jesus paid $99 of it for you that is still a good gift, but it does not obsolve you of your debt

26

Was Jesus' sacrifice really necessary? Or even a sacrifice at all?

by AiAi in

does it make sense that after adam ate of the fruit god would condemn all of mankind until jesus sacrificed himself?

does 1 perfect person's sin really equal 1 perfect person's sacrifice plus billions of imperfect peoples death and suffering?.

jesus' sacrifice to save mankind really was not a sacrifice at all if he knew he would be raised up after 3 days.. .

AiAi

Ding - Even with taking our sins into his own body was still the same amount of sacrifice if he was going to have a heavenly one a few days later. Would it have still been such a big sacrifice of the widow giving her last 2 coins if she knew she would get a fortune in a few days? I do agree about what the real temptation was but that would only have been a temptation if the sacrifice of life was a true sacrifice of life.

Cold Steel - I do think that god had to sacrifice Jesus because of a self-imposed law he was unwilling to break. But, I fail to see how 1 perfect person's temporary death is equal to 2 perfect person's eternal death along with a billion others life-long suffering.

Moshe - I had never considered that they had to eat in the garden to survive ... interesting

tec - I think after so many thousands (millions? billions? more?) of years with god that Jesus would have trusted him implicitly even with his life.

As for the suffering in this world... that is caused by things WE do to one another; then blame God for.

Have you heard about Japan? Or any of the other numerous natural disasters just recently? What about disease? Famine? sure man did not cause these things to happen and neither did god, but he sure could have prevented it.

26

Was Jesus' sacrifice really necessary? Or even a sacrifice at all?

by AiAi in

does it make sense that after adam ate of the fruit god would condemn all of mankind until jesus sacrificed himself?

does 1 perfect person's sin really equal 1 perfect person's sacrifice plus billions of imperfect peoples death and suffering?.

jesus' sacrifice to save mankind really was not a sacrifice at all if he knew he would be raised up after 3 days.. .

AiAi

I have only been thinking about this recently but it really seems to me that Jesus did not make any real sacrifice, especially when you consider how long he has been alive so even the short time he was here on earth was barely a blink of an eye for him. So I really dont understand how he is worthy of being our only way to god, or how he even cancelled out Adam's sin since Adam was eternally destroyed for it.

Also, what about Eve? She was 'perfect' and ate too, does she need someone to cancel her sin? Or maybe since she is a woman she doesnt count as a person?

26

Was Jesus' sacrifice really necessary? Or even a sacrifice at all?

by AiAi in

does it make sense that after adam ate of the fruit god would condemn all of mankind until jesus sacrificed himself?

does 1 perfect person's sin really equal 1 perfect person's sacrifice plus billions of imperfect peoples death and suffering?.

jesus' sacrifice to save mankind really was not a sacrifice at all if he knew he would be raised up after 3 days.. .

AiAi

Does it make sense that after Adam ate of the fruit god would condemn all of mankind until Jesus sacrificed himself? Does 1 perfect person's sin really equal 1 perfect person's sacrifice plus billions of imperfect peoples death and suffering?

Jesus' sacrifice to save mankind really was not a sacrifice at all if he knew he would be raised up after 3 days.

Also, Satan's 'temptations' of him were not really temptations at all if he knew god would give him the kingdom; or, in the case of the trinity belief, if Jesus is god then there was definitely no way any of it was a sacrifice or temptation because he new he would save himself and Satan could tempt him with something he could have at any moment.

Do the 'sins' the average person does in an average lifetime really fit the punishment of eternal damnation? Would a just god really do that? What about the worldwide suffering that has occurred since the garden of eden? How does one sin from a 'perfect' man mean that everyone has to suffer?

Even if we are given our lives back through Jesus' sacrifice how is god going to compensate us for the billions of cumulative years of pain and suffering? Our imperfect worldly governments allow us to sue others for this so would not a perfect god understand there is still an unpaid debt?

16

Help w/ Bible Teach ch 9 section "Major Developments of the Last Days"

by InterestedOne in

i'm in ch 9 in my study, and we will go over the section "major developments of the last days" (pars 6-9) next week.

although i don't see anything special in pars 7-9, i think par 6 allows the jw's to strike a chord with people, and i was wondering if anyone could help me with how to respond to it.

they are able to quote real figures in that paragraph such as "three times as many people fell victim to war in [the 20th] century as in all the wars from the first century ad to 1899.".

AiAi

The Watchtower's quote is directly in context from an article published by Worldwatch in 1999. Worldwatch made their conclusion from a 1991 article by William Ekhart called "War-Related Deaths Since 3000 BC". Interestingly he acknowledges in his article that previous research had shown that "war-related deaths have been of the same intensity throughout historical time"

Either way not proof of anything since there have always been wars and reports of wars

97

On Jerkhovas Witlesses, Kingdumb Hells, Filthful & Discreet Slavebugger and Pio-sneering . .

by nicolaou in

i detest this type of posting.

it's only my opinion of course and so long as forum rules aren't breached we're all free to express ourselves as we see fit.

doesn't mean i have to like it though.. honestly, can't you make your point without this kind of infantile name calling?

AiAi

Now i find the terms amusing. But when I first saw this site it was these terms that made me think everyone was just angry apostates and it wasnt until a long time later I came back and looked deeper.

20

Please help!! My friend is now a return visit / doorstep study!

by AiAi in

jw
friends

i have a friend that is a youth minister for a local church.

he has a very good understanding of scripture and we frequently have interesting discussions.

we have talked about jw beliefs before and he is always surprised to find that they can really believe what they do.

AiAi

Billy, I think that is a good way for my friend to explain his being interested but hesitant. However, I think once the internet is mentioned all of the sudden my brother will be too 'busy' to call back. But I cant wait till the conversation moves too 'new light' or dates

11

The Parable of the Net

by jakeyen in

this is my first post.

im reading a lot of good stuff in here, like the ones from special mention yknot, fokyc, marcusscriptus, brotherdan, td, and some of the funny stuff from lars the annointed.

well this lead me to reread the gospel account.. .

AiAi

Welcome!

How do you handle JCs being enlightened? And how do other elders respond to that? I am sure you have at least one story for us...

20

Please help!! My friend is now a return visit / doorstep study!

by AiAi in

jw
friends

i have a friend that is a youth minister for a local church.

he has a very good understanding of scripture and we frequently have interesting discussions.

we have talked about jw beliefs before and he is always surprised to find that they can really believe what they do.

AiAi

Black Sheep, I almost forgot you, that is good advice and a great way of explaining their diversion tactics. Thank you

20

Please help!! My friend is now a return visit / doorstep study!

by AiAi in

jw
friends

i have a friend that is a youth minister for a local church.

he has a very good understanding of scripture and we frequently have interesting discussions.

we have talked about jw beliefs before and he is always surprised to find that they can really believe what they do.

AiAi

Band on the Run, I understand, and agree with, the point you are making but my main concern is making sure what happened to your father does not happen to my brother. True, I do know him better than anyone; but, I have not had any experiance in dealing with a JW as an 'apostate' and tring to reason with them and that is what I need advice with. Obviosly, I will try to tailor any advice to fit the citioation.

Jonathan Doe, so far seems like a lot of good information, just a lot to sift through.