Posts by LFitzwater

19

Two Witnesses to WHAT !!!

by jst2laws in

i have asked this question on another thread but want to bring it to everyone's attention.

the wt society is trying to make it look as if they have always handled molestation aggressively and that very little change has been required, only 'strengthening' their policy over the years.

two witnesses to separate incidents of the same kind of wrongdoing.

I would like to add that in the Dan Fitzwater case (And I have direct knowledge as I am his daughter-in-law) the the WTS had a legal representative present at his criminal trial in which four victims testified against him for abuses that accured repeatedly and over a period of 24 years. I believe, although I can't be positive, that the representative was Mario Mareno himself. The letter from the WTS was in response to my husbands letter AFTER the trial and AFTER his father was in prison. My husband asked why after being convicted and having these witnesses against him, why was Dan still not DFed. The letter posted above was the response. They absolutely knew of the 4 victims and they also had themselves a record of 17 victims. (this probably included the 4 we knew of because each of them had gone to the elders previous to this and got no help) I provided to dateline a circuit overseers letter to the WTS that talked about the 17 victims. The WTS society had to turn this letter over as discovery to the DA. They to this day have refused to name the victims claiming ecclesiatical privledge. The courts upheld their privledge. They say publicly that if there is more than one witness to the same type of crime they CAN use it as evidence. The key word is CAN. The problem is they DON'T.
Laurie

63

About Daniel Fitzwater-Exposed on Dateline

by LFitzwater in

this is a very long story that i will try to condense.

it will still probably be too long.

life is good for us now that we know the real truth.

LFitzwater

I replied to you under a new thread under ABUSE & Lofty & Judgemental?

5

Lofty & Judgemental?Are you on DAN FITZWATE...

by LFitzwater in

i brought this to the top of the board because i feel its getting lost and i want to have better access to respond.

my response is at the bottom.

this is a post i received on page 3 of child abuse under dan fitzwater exposed on dateline.... ("laurie, i can truly appreciate your feelings of digust for this man, and feeling as though he is not repentant.

LFitzwater

I brought this to the top of the board because I feel its getting lost and I want to have better access to respond. My response is at the bottom. This is a post I received on page 3 of child abuse under Dan Fitzwater exposed on Dateline.... ("Laurie, I can truly appreciate your feelings of digust for this man, and feeling as though he is not repentant. You mention that you don't believe he is repentant because he thinks he has done nothing wrong. This IS typical of a person who is a Pedophile. It IS part of the mental illness. It has nothing to do with having a sense of morality, it IS a mental sickness. I do appreciate that it is very difficult to understand when you are involved in such a terrible incident. If he has been dealing with this since he was a younger man, which is usually when Pehophilia begins, and he has NEVER received ANY professional help (therapy and medication), only the counsell of the Scriptures (which just won't do it!) then it is no wonder he actually believes he has done no wrong. Telling him it is wrong and showing him Bible passages is not enough to correct this type of mental condition. In some ways, he is also a victim or himself because he has never had the help he needs. I can imagine that the concept of him being a victim also would frustrate you, and I am not saying it to upset you. I do not know either you or the Brother involved. I am simply stating fact. And I want you to know that I am very genuine in my concern about this issue. Yes, a crime has been committed, and it needs to be dealt with Judicially and Legally. Yes, justice should prevail! Not just for the victims of the crimes, but for the offenders. They should be entitled to receive PROPER and APPROPRIATE counselling and therapy, so they can reside in society without being a pariah. Truly, I feel great compassion towards all victims of sex crimes, and if I or a member of my own family was a victim, I may react with the same anger. However, let us not forget that even the Justice System of this world is not what it should or could be, and there is often a lack of justice. And I know also, that even in the congregation, sometimes there is injustice rendered. That is why we have to keep close in mind that ONLY JEHOVAH can render justice deserved. Being a God of Love and Mercy, Jehovah will provide comfort to victims who lean on Him for support, in addition to getting the professional help they need to recover fully. And likewise, Jehovah will not abandon a person with a mental illness. Please don't make yourself so lofty as to become judgemental. It is one thing to have an opinion, and another thing to be judgemental. There is a fine line. I hope you understand what I am trying to say here. I would just hate to see you lose faith in our Loving, Merciful and Just, Father, Jehovah God! In faith testing times like this, we all need to pray for strength to demonstrate selfless love, as Christ Jesus did. Pray for the victims AND the perpetrators, that each will find the strength needed to align themselves once again with Jehovah's Will. Don't allow room for Satan to overcome! He is the god of this system of things, but good IS stronger than evil! Please know that I care very much. May our wonderful God, Jehovah, strengthen and console His sheeplike ones!")

My Response:
I feel as though I am being accused of being lofty and judgemental because I feel that Dan Fitzwater is unrepentant. He had a parole hearing in Nov. He was denied parole because he still denies molesting children. This man has hurt as many as 17 girls. probably more. I was DFed from my congergation for going to the elders and trying to get them to take action against this sick man. I lost my mother over it. I lost 3 of my brother and 3 sister-in-laws as well as 7 nieces and nephews, 2 of whom I was VERY close to.I lost every friend I had made as a lifelong JW living in the town I was born and raised in.( with the exception of one VERY GOOD friend that never was baptized) So YES I do get mad. This man layed naked on at least one of his victims while he abused her. I don't disagree that he is sick. I do disagree that ANY AMOUNT of therapy will help him. Child abusers ALMOST ALWAYS ABUSE AGAIN! Espeacially ones that have a preditory history. So if you want to think that I am judgemental, that is fine. Maybe I have some right to be in this case. I don't feel sorry for "poor Dan Fitzwater" Even if he was abused as a child. I know a LOT of people who were that never became abusers. He was an adult that should have taken resposibilty for himself. If he had unnatural urges he should have sought help BEFORE he acted them out on a poor defenseless child. Now that he has been caught, he should take responsibilty, but he does not! And I don't believe that he REALLY thinks he did nothing wrong. He failed 2 lie detector tests! He just acts as if he did nothing wrong. You can tell me all about how you worked with victims or abusers or whatever. I have lived through it. I have lived with abusers and around them. I have lived with victims and around them. I suffered through the first years of marrage (and so did my husband) because of the connection my mind made between loving sexual relationships and abuse. Thankfully, my husband is a man of much patients. He let me take it as slowly as I needed to. He helped me to heal. But that does not mean that it does not hurt when I think of what I went through and it does not mean that it does not hurt when I think of the other victims and it does not mean that It doesn't hurt to think that Dan Fitzwater will be out in just 2 short years and still will be a member of JW in good standing with people that still trust him because the elders did not find him guilty.
Ok,I propbably sound like I am ranting now so I will leave it at this....
Please do not accuse me of being lofty and judgemental until you have walked in my shoes.....
Laurie (Gendreau) Fitzwater
Formerly of Bradenton, FL- Yerington, NV- Ft Worth, Tx - Hariman, TN
And now living in Rifle, CO

67

NEW JW POLICY POSTED!!!

by amac in

i don't know if anyone has posted on this already but there is a new press release at http://www.jw-media.org/releases/default.htm?content=bg_molestation.htm that defines the current jw policy and i believe it has taken a step in the right direction!.

although they have not literally changed it to require reporting to the authorities in all states, they have finally put into print the following: "additionally, the victim may wish to report the matter to the authorities, and it is his or her absolute right to do so.".

i am glad to see, straight from the wt, acknowledgement that the adults involved have every right to go to the police.

LFitzwater

JR Brown also stated that they take a hard line against child molesters. He is a LIAR! Just because he says that JWs have a right to go to the authorites does not make it true. Also, what about warning others. It is considered gosip and slander. And let us not forget that the WTS does not consider one guilty of molestation until THEY decide that one is gulty. So what happens when you go to the police about one that the WTS does not consider guilty. My father in law is in prison, found guilty by a jury after 4 girls testified to his abuse and the WTS still considers him innocent. And the girls and their families are shunned.

63

About Daniel Fitzwater-Exposed on Dateline

by LFitzwater in

this is a very long story that i will try to condense.

it will still probably be too long.

life is good for us now that we know the real truth.

LFitzwater

I still have the letter, but no scanner. I did fax it to Bill Bowen I believe. He may still have it or I can fax it to someone with a scanner. Anyone that wants to scan it, just let me know. Thanks

6

Dateline VHS Not Available

by NeonMadman in

i just called nbc to try to order the vhs tape of last night's segment on jw's, and they said that a taped version is not and will not be available because of copyright issues.

i'm not sure how that works, i would have thought that the network was the owner of the program and could distribute it as it sees fit.. guess i'll have to settle for ordering a transcript.... tom.

"gentlemen, he said, i don't need your organization, i've shined your shoes, i've moved your mountains and marked your cards.

LFitzwater

Are you the TR that had his own discussion board 3 or 4 years back?
If so I am LaurieF that was a regular poster.

63

About Daniel Fitzwater-Exposed on Dateline

by LFitzwater in

this is a very long story that i will try to condense.

it will still probably be too long.

life is good for us now that we know the real truth.

LFitzwater

Dan is in prison in Carson City Nevada. The irony is that when he first was placed their one of the female guards was a victim of his! He would try to talk to her and tell her she knew he was innocent. He was transfered out when the prison system discovered this, until the guard left that prison, then he was moved back.

63

About Daniel Fitzwater-Exposed on Dateline

by LFitzwater in

this is a very long story that i will try to condense.

it will still probably be too long.

life is good for us now that we know the real truth.

LFitzwater

OH MY GAWD! I DO KNOW THEM! My brothers were very close friends of Johnathan! I was not close to them but I remember a real bad situation that happened to the family. I don't feel comfortable saying on a public board. I can't believe that they are related to the Pandelos on Dateline! Please e-mail me @ [email protected]

63

About Daniel Fitzwater-Exposed on Dateline

by LFitzwater in

this is a very long story that i will try to condense.

it will still probably be too long.

life is good for us now that we know the real truth.

LFitzwater

Not being DFed had nothing to do with being in prison. Long before charges were filed they had ABSOLUTE proof that Dan had done these things. They did nothing. After charges were filed the elders told us that if he was convicted he would definately be DFed. They had about 4 years before his conviction and have had almost 4 years since to act. Their excuse was (and I gave this letter to Dateline, but it was edited out) that there were not 2 witnesses to each seperate incident. This was a letter from the WTS themselves. It was in direct response to my husband asking why his father was not DFed after 4 witnesses had come forward to testify. They NEVER used the excuse about not being able to DF in prison. One local brother fed us that line, but said it was because they were afraid that Dan would sue them. He thought that was a good excuse for protecting child molesters and putting children at risk.

63

About Daniel Fitzwater-Exposed on Dateline

by LFitzwater in

this is a very long story that i will try to condense.

it will still probably be too long.

life is good for us now that we know the real truth.

LFitzwater

This is a very long story that I will try to condense. It will still probably be too long.
My name is Laurie Fitzwater. My father-in-law is Daniel Fitzwater Sr. He is the guy shown on dateline as the molester with at least 17 victims.
I met Dan when I was 13 years old. He took me under his wing when he moved to our congergation in Bradenton, FL in the early 80's. I was one of 10 kids with a father that was not a JW. Dan was suddenly "there for me". He had moved to FL with his wife and small daughter. Dan was very interested in the children at the hall. Amazingly everyone thought it was great that a regular pioneer took such an interest in kids. He soon became a MS and was very well liked by everyone, so it seemed. He really pushed me to baptism and being a person eager to please, I got baptized at age 14. Dan got way too close to me. Now looking back I realize that all the hugs and kisses were not appropriate. Although I did spend the night at his house on more than one occasion, I do not recall any real abuse. I do have lost memories and wonder how we ended up in the next town by ourselves when we were supposed to be out in service. (we were often way out of our territory) I later learned that many of the pet names he had for me were the same he used for his victims. Many of the things he said were the same that he said to others. When I was 14 Dan's son, Scott moved to FL to live with him. I met Scott and we really liked each other. He was 18 and under the impression that I was 16. (ok so I kinda lied about my age) His dad found out and freaked out. He kicked Scott out....Just for liking me! Scott and I remained good friends and I began seeing a different side of Dan. I also was learning of the physical abuse Scott had suffered as a child in the hands of his father. Soon I had really developed a hate for him. I'm not sure why my hate was so intense, but I knew that he was not the person he pretended to be.
Dan moved away suddenly, to Hazelhurst, GA. No explanation, just left. He became and elder there. He lived there a while and then moved back to Yerington, NV. where he had moved to FL from.
Lots of stuff in between, including myself and Scott getting married. He is nothing like his dad. We have now been married 14 1/2 years and more in love than ever. He is a gentle and kind husband and father.

The story broke for us when Dan Fitzwater Sr stepped down from his position as elder in the early 90's. In our efforts to find a reason we contacted Scott's Step-sister who he had not spoken to in many years. She told us that she had gone to the elders AGAIN about Dan having abused her as a child. She was removed by social services from the home when she was 15. Charges were being filed back then and the elders were informed. It was at that time that Dan FLED to FL and stayed away from Nevada for 7 years, exactly the statute of limitations on molestation in NV at the time. Scott's sister said that she had been trying 2 years to get some action through the congergation before she went to the DA. The congergation did nothing. Once the story went to the DA they asked him to step down as elder, but still said that they did not have sufficient evidence to DF Dan. In the meantime, 2 other girls had come forward. They grew up with Dan's kids. Still nothing was done. While Dan was still an elder, and unsuspecting family moved to Yerington. They left their 8 year old daughter in Dan's wife's care while they went on a hunting trip. After all they could trust the congergation overseer and his wife! His wife delivered this 8 year old to Dan and left the house. He abused her. She kept silent for 2 years, until she attempted suicide and the truth came out. Even with 4 witnesses they would not DF Dan. They said that they had to have 2 witnesses to EACH INDIVIDUAL INCIDENT! The victims had the same story and were (approx) ages 31, 20, and 10. Not three disident friends conspiring against him.
Charges were brought against Dan when the little girl tried to kill herself. At that point it was made known to the authorities by the hospital. Dan was convicted after 15 minutes of Jury diliberation. He had lied so much that he hung himself. His wife lied too. They did not lie well. Dan was still not being DFed! I learned that a rep from the WTS was at his trial. The elders in his cong said that the WTS took over the case. The WTS (namely Mario Mareno) said that the congergation was in charge of DFing and that the WTS does not involve themselves in the process.
I was questioning the elders in my hall as to how this could happen? And why werent they DFing Dan who was going to prison.
I would not accept their pat answer to wait on Jehovah and have faith. I was a very faithful witness up until then. I was raised in it and had aux pioneered off and on. I was a virgin until marrage and I had NEVER been drunk or tried drugs. I was a model witness teen and young wife/mother. I made almost every meeting and commented regularly. Now suddenly, as I questioned what was going on, I was labeled an apostate. They decided to DF me after a very emotional meeting in which I pleaded for mercy. I appealed. I figured these brother (two of whom new me for many years) were mistaken. (this was as my husband was preparing to go to NV and testify against his dad)I was not an apostate. I simply had questions. The appeal process took a long time. I had my appeal meeting within days, But my appeal brother thought I should be shown mercy. The elders from the first commitee argued with them. I was excused to the next room but could hear the brothers on the first comittee yelling that I was a danger to the congergation.( even though I told NO ONE in the congergation about Dan except my mother) They told me to go home as they could not make a decision and they would have to write the WTS for a decision. One elder told me that the WTS would not write a letter directly telling them what to do, but that they would add scriptures to the letter. If the scriptures were about mercy I was not to be DFed. If they were about Judgement and keeping clean, I was to be DFed. A lot happened in between. A very long story and I had become very sick from the stress. I was placed on high blood pressure meds and was diagnosed with asthma. I was having asthma attacks for the first time in my life. I decided that I could not handle another commitee meeting and felt I did not have a chance so I wrote a letter to DA. The day they were to read it I got a call from an elder. He said that the letter came back to DF me. He asked how I wanted it to be announced. I said DA. I thought people would think I had cheated on my husband if I was DFed. They thought that anyway.
Dan Fitzwater still sits in prison. He will be realeased in 2 years. He is still a JW in good standing. He preaches in prison. Makes me sick. The WTS gave over evidence in the trial in the form of a letter by a circuit overseer to the WTS against Dan that mentioned that Dan had 17 victims. The DA knew of 4. Everyone I know knew of only 4. The WTS had info that there were 17. What we have derived from that is that these were members of the congergations Dan was in that went to the elders. None of these were acted upon.
I spoke out and lost my mother, 3 brothers, 6 Nieces & nephews, and all my lifelong friends. All except my best friend who never was baptized and I treated her very badly for years. She was after all, "bad assosiation". After I left the JWs I rekindeled our friendship. She welcomed me back to her life with open arms. She forgave me. She has her own story. I think she prefers to keep it hers. She endured much abuse at the hands of her "annointed" step-father. Again, it was another case of the elders looking the other way and refusing to get involved.
I would gladly do it over again. I have gained much more than I lost. My husband is by my side and our kids are very happy. Life is good for us now that we know the REAL truth.
I have left out a lot of this story. It is simply too long to tell, but the bottom line is that the WTS lied to us, the local elders in Bradenton and in Yerington lied to us. They threatened us with DF and went through with it in my case, and DANIEL S. FITZWATER SR is in prison as a pervert child molester and is a JW in good standing.